Marvel Comics Outs A Founding X-Man As Gay

[Tsun Tzu]

Yay, trendy revisionism of existing characters. No way that could prove controversial.

Anyway, I thought Colossus was already gay?

I thought that was just Ultimate U Colossus - Earth 616 Colossus was always straight.

Does Ultimate anyone still exist? I have no idea what happened to that universe after it got merged with the 616 (I'd also not consider anyone from that universe a "founding member" of any hero team that wasn't specifically the Ultimates version if that was the case).

See...this is kind of the problem I have with comics.

Too many continuities and too many variables. It just comes across as a mess.

As for the OP:

Meh? It's just another alternate character and ultimately doesn't mean anything, for good or (not that I think it is) ill. How clumsily it was done just sort of highlights the weirdness of such a decision.

Makes it come off as being done for headlines, rather than as a natural progression of a story, which is already ridiculously hard to do, given all the branching/conflicting narratives that have and continue to take place in the world of comics.

Throw in the whole bi angle and it just makes it weirder; kinda like the people involved don't understand the orientations they're working with.

 

[Zontar]

See...this is kind of the problem I have with comics.

Too many continuities and too many variables. It just comes across as a mess.

Well in all fairness for the past decade there have only been 616 and Ultimates in terms of universes, and you can tell which is which based on weather or not it had the word "Ultimate" in the title. The part where it becomes a clusterfuck is now that the Ultimates is being merged with the 616 universe, which sucks because honestly Ultimates really should just be brought to an end. The story actually has advanced and evolved over the years, the characters developed and when they died they stayed dead. If they wanted to stop the print just have the stories wrapped up.

 

[NerAnima]

You know, my issue isn't with how they made Iceman gay, since some people do chase one gender whilst they crave the other, but my issue is with how horribly they presented it.

One, he didn't even get the choice, Jean Grey just told him, by reading his mind, or by changing it to that, she forced it out, so she's kind of a ***** in my opinion; you don't force someone to admit that, only because of the writer did he take this so well.

Two, why in the name of the Sun is this drawn so terribly?! That one page in particular is an egregious sin, having 6 of them be the same bloody frame, just with different text bubbles. Hell, they didn't even bother getting rid of the lines for Jean's pic! I think someone said it looked as if she were doing a cheerleading routine, and I have to agree. I don't read a great deal of comics, I admit that, but I've seen a few online that were done a lot better than that tripe.

So yeah, I have no problems with them saying that he's gay, but that was just so poorly done, so it's really just a sour note for me.

 

[NerAnima]

Pff, if you really wanted controversy you'd make Wolverine gay.
Go on, do it Marvel. I dare you. I double dare you.
Bring everyone's favourite hairy Canadian back to life and have him marry Sabretooth. You know you want to...

They haven't quite done that, but they did have Wolverine in an alternate universe getting some Canadian wood for Hercules, and had a shot of those two going at it right in front of their latest - and maybe greatest - kill. Not too racy, sadly.

Still, does that count? I think it should at least get some points, even if it doesn't.

Edit: Besides, having him marry Sabretooth...? That sounds a bit silly, even by comic book standards.

 

[silver wolf009]

I wonder, if I replaced "Full gay" with "Maximum Homosex," would that be more or less progressive?

At any rate, obvious, overt, shameless pandering for the purpose of getting a few more sales, and a precious few seconds in the public's memory. It'd be disgusting, if it wasn't routine.

 

[runic knight]

"Full gay", really? Really? There isn't enough time in a week to explain everything wrong with it.

There are some both who are attracted to men and women. These is a state called "bisexuality".

Just because people still seem to think that such a thing doesn't exist, which includes people who aren't straight. Its 2015, people need to get the fuck over it.

Also, somehow I doubt that Bobby Drake would be so extremely outspoken as as a mutant advocate and wouldn't be out of the closet. This is a cheap move that is both insulting to the LGBTQ community and cheapens the actual character.

I... am largely in full agreement, which seems a rare occurrence with you, so I guess that is a sign of how bad this idea was pulled off? It was a cheap move, it was pulled off terribly, has some sort of unpleasant undercurrents of mind-rape, invasion of privacy, ignoring the concept of bisexuality and the full gay thing was just...weird.

------------

As for the larger topic of why the hell they did this other posters have touched on, not sure it is an intentional sinking of the comic-ship, but might be a bit of desperate outreach? Shenanigans, lack of respect or consistency and failure to grow has seemed to shrink the original fanbases of the various series since the great profitable era of comics, so this and various other notable examples may be the current equivalent of the ham-fisted desperate ploys to grasp a new audience similar to the rise of the "grim and gritty" 90's comic tried to. And failed...

Also, anyone remember the "new guardians"? I can't help but see this as somehow the successor of the same mindset that spawned that series.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Pff, if you really wanted controversy you'd make Wolverine gay.
Go on, do it Marvel. I dare you. I double dare you.
Bring everyone's favourite hairy Canadian back to life and have him marry Sabretooth. You know you want to...

They haven't quite done that, but they did have Wolverine in an alternate universe getting some Canadian wood for Hercules, and had a shot of those two going at it right in front of their latest - and maybe greatest - kill. Not too racy, sadly.

Still, does that count? I think it should at least get some points, even if it doesn't.

Edit: Besides, having him marry Sabretooth...? That sounds a bit silly, even by comic book standards.

If we're going with alternate universe then its already been brought up that Ultimate Colossus is gay.

Besides, marrying Sabretooth isn't that odd. The two have the whole Foe Yay thing going on where their the "only one" who can handle the other, where they go at each other with a lot of grappling and subcontextual impaling while they wear tight spandex. Don't tell me you can't see it, its as plain as the nose on Pinnochio's face!

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Well in all fairness for the past decade there have only been 616 and Ultimates in terms of universes, and you can tell which is which based on weather or not it had the word "Ultimate" in the title. The part where it becomes a clusterfuck is now that the Ultimates is being merged with the 616 universe, which sucks because honestly Ultimates really should just be brought to an end. The story actually has advanced and evolved over the years, the characters developed and when they died they stayed dead. If they wanted to stop the print just have the stories wrapped up.

Well, then you have people calling back to different continuities, so it's still a bit of a clustermolest from an outsider's perspective.

I don't doubt that it's not "impenetrable," nowadays, but from what I understand, having knowledge of previous incarnations helps to understand moments or references and stuff. In general though, the immediate response is for my eyes to glaze over and my mouse to take me elsewhere.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Seems a bit like pandering to demos for sales, IMO.

Take a page from Legend of Korra. You don't need to advertise a characters preference, as while its part of them, it should be hinted at here and there in their X-books, not shouted about just, because it might increase sales with that demo.

Minus one, Marvel.

 

[Tono Makt]

Um, doesn't this push the idea that being gay is a choice? I mean, if the older him chose to be straight...

Does this all seem lazy grab for notoriety to anyone else?

That's my biggest problem with it, outside of the fans who have gone a bit nutso over this. It just seems so lazy and in a way, cowardly - it's ICEMAN who is gay. A character who has been a C-List character for 50+ years and only really seems to continue to exist because he just happens to be part of the original X-Men. So whenever there is a reunion, Iceman is there. And... now a version of himself, from the past, who is now in the present, is gay. ("Full Gay", argh) Sure, whatever, Iceman is gay - no big deal. But this isn't some really big thing for Comics. This is Ringo coming out as Gay, not John, Paul or George. Have Angel come out as Gay, maybe there's a bigger deal. Have Beast come out as gay, probably around the same level as Iceman, though Beast tends to get a bit more page-time than Iceman so maybe he's more of a C+ or B list character. Have Cyclops come out as gay and it's going to cause a nerdrage the likes of which the world has never seen. (How often has he had Telepaths in his brain, and not once did anyone get the hint he was gay?!?!?) But Iceman? He's just... there.

And this is Comic Books - there is a pretty decent chance that this is going to be retconned in the future too. That Iceman was never "Full Gay", but was actually under the control of someone else, or the suggestion, or some sort of mind control/emotional control/outside influence that made him think he was gay when he was actually straight, or bi, or just plain asexual. If death isn't permanent, why should sexual preference be permanent? Who knows - I'll withhold judgement until it's gone on through at least 3 writing teams and hasn't been retconned.

captcha: "it happens". Such a vague, potentially prophetic, potentially dismissive captcha this time.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Isnt adult Iceman straight?

God damn it I'm sick of this lazy retconning for diversity bullshit. And of course its Bendis, the man who ruined Guardians of the Galaxy once pre movie, and then had to fuck it up even more post movie. And dont get me started on how he shoved his x-men waifu into the comic in so he could keep writing about her while imagining her being fucked. Seriously can someone please kill Kitty Pride? or at least take that Kingpin cosplaying ************ Bendis away from the writers desk, give him a coloring book and get someone competent to take his place.

I've always hated retcons, but pointless retcons that make no sense piss me off even more. Are they implying that there is some 'gay switch' and Iceman turned his from 'flaming' to 'straight as a ruler'?. Is it saying that adult Iceman has deluded himself so long that he has actually turned himself straight and killed off any 'gay parts' left? I'm really trying to understand here and no matter how I look at it the entire thing is just retarded. Did Professor X make him pray the gay away? Are they going to make adult Iceman come out now and say that him being straight was a secret plot by magneto? HOW DOES THIS WORK BENDIS?! HOW?!

I'm just done with comics. Hellblazer is over (its been over for a while but it still hurts damn it), DnA is split, DC and Marvel are engaged in a race to see who can reach the top of shit hill and Frank Miller is probably gonna die one day.

The only way Marvel can get me to read their stuff again is if they bring back the Superior Spiderman for this Battle World stuff. And before anyone starts on me liking Superior Spiderman while hating on stuff like this, SpOck was different. The Superior run was Doc Ock taking the body of Peter Parker over for a spin, they didnt retcon Peter Parker into a violent, arrogant asshole.

 

[Robert Marrs]

Who cares? Really this is getting old. I don't care about comics or this hero but this feels so forced lately. It really is eye roll worthy.

 

[maninahat]

Well thats stupid. Why? Miles Morales was a good character because he was hispanic to start with. He wasnt a white guy that got changed into a hispanic guy just because. Same with the Asian Ms Marvel, she was a Pakistani/American before she got the power and not a colour swap. I think they need to introduce a new character that happens to be gay instead of just choosing a character at random.

But then maybe im looking at it wrong. Maybe gay people out there will take to this as it compares to their lives when they came out as gay. An they can identify with it more than a straight person can. For me, it seems its change for the sake of it but for a gay person it may resonate on a different level.

I can see where you are coming from - but at the same time, I think that if the aim is to make comics more inclusive, it would be a half measure to introduce lots of diverse new characters whilst leaving the original core, blockbuster characters the same. That would create a weird looking cultural and generation gap between the new and old heroes, whilst implicitly suggesting to readers that the core cast are "too precious" to be changed for the likes of minorities.

The thing is, comic book characters always evolve; You are very unlikely to see Superman in this day and age "slapping a Jap" or The Spectre's comedy black sidekick getting scared of ghost noises. These elements just get written out/transformed to keep up with the readership.

 

[NeutralStasis]

It just feels like these changes are happening too fast now to mean much. Thor is a woman, Cap is black, Ms. Marvel is Muslim, and now Iceman is gay. Individually, any of these changes could have been done with care and made into a solid story line with meaning. But together, they read as a publicity stunt.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Um, doesn't this push the idea that being gay is a choice? I mean, if the older him chose to be straight...

Does this all seem lazy grab for notoriety to anyone else?

Chose to be straight, or chose to remain in the closet/deny his sexuality/appear straight?
I imagine the second is far more likely, and that's my reading of the situation.

OT: Not a comic reader, will almost certainly never read any Marvel stuff, but this stuff kind of interests me. Mostly because everyone gets all up in arms about everything Marvel does ever, particularly anything regarding social issues, and I get to sit back and watch everyone fight it out.

The major teams seem to be:
Outraged non-comic readers FOR
Outraged non-comic readers AGAINST
comic readers trying to have a civil discussion, both FOR and AGAINST
comic readers fed up of all the outrage
Bemused onlookers

Though if everyone just calmed down you could have a nice chat about the whole ordeal. Wouldn't need to call anyone a bigot or an 'SJW'.