Marvel Giving Thor's Hammer New Female Friendly Inscription

JimB

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Anja Bech said:
JimB said:
Wait, why is changing it to "she" silly but changing it to "they" isn't? Yeah, Thor was carrying Mjolnir for ages, but he ain't doing it now, is he?
It's not the change I think is silly, it's the fact that they changed it to be gender specific. It's a teeny tiny thing, I know, and it doesn't really matter, but I still feel it would have made a bit more sense to make the pronoun gender neutral.
Fair enough. Thank you for answering so politely. That's always refreshing in a conversation like this one.

Happyninja42 said:
I think JimB posted previously that the female Thor is someone we know from a previous comic series, but it just hasn't been revealed yet?
No, that was someone else. I swear I remember Joey-Q telling Barbara Walters the new Thor is an original character (I remember because part of me was slightly pissed off at the snub directed at every other woman in the Marvel Universe, since an original character can be taken to imply that none of the existing female characters are worthy of Mjolnir; but that's probably just collateral and unintended), but most everyone else thinks she's an existing character, so maybe I'm wrong.

Sight Unseen said:
I still think it's a bit silly that Thor of all heroes can be replaced. Thor is supposed to be an actual god.
No, in Marvel continuity, he's supposed to be an alien who inspired myths of an actual god...sort of. It's complicated. Time travel is involved.

Happyninja42 said:
Are the Valkyries as a group that take the souls of dead warriors to Valhalla actually established as a group in the Marvel-verse?
The Valkyries do exist, but they are not psychopomps. I think they're just a branch of Asgard's military, but you might doublecheck that before you take my word for it.
 

immortalfrieza

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otakon17 said:
Yeah, simple explanation. Um, I must have missed it but what is the origin story of this new Thor? What happened to the old one? No longer worthy? Killed in glorious battle? Retired? Got lost at WalMart?
I don't know either, but judging by Marvel's recent track record Thor being gone because of getting lost at WalMart would probably make more sense than what we'll get. That would be pretty funny actually.
 

Bonecrusher

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Cronenberg1 said:
I like how nobody cares about gender neutral pronouns until it's changed from male to female. Someone makes a valid criticism about the use of he as a default pronoun for anything with an unidentified gender? "you're just being PC, stop being so offended all the time!" The text on Thor's hammer changes from he to she? "Hey lets be gender neutral now!"
OK, so we should stop calling "ships" as "she" and start calling them "it"?
 

Cronenberg1

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Bonecrusher said:
Cronenberg1 said:
I like how nobody cares about gender neutral pronouns until it's changed from male to female. Someone makes a valid criticism about the use of he as a default pronoun for anything with an unidentified gender? "you're just being PC, stop being so offended all the time!" The text on Thor's hammer changes from he to she? "Hey lets be gender neutral now!"
OK, so we should stop calling "ships" as "she" and start calling them "it"?
Hey I'm not saying it's all that important. I just think it's funny people started caring about that kind of thing, when it was changed from he to she, when most people probably wouldn't think it was that big a deal most of the time.
 

Drake the Dragonheart

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Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
 

immortalfrieza

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Drake the Dragonheart said:
Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
It was Odin himself that inscribed the inscription, and his word is quite literally cosmic law. Therefore, if the hammer has "he" on it, only males may wield it unless Odin himself says otherwise.
 

Baddamobs

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Err, I'm in the camp that think it should probably just be gender neutral. Hell, isn't the whole push for gender-neutral terms a thing feminism likes? Would have thought that would have gone over better then the current 'she.'
 

JimB

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Baddamobs said:
Err, I'm in the camp that think it should probably just be gender-neutral. Hell, isn't the whole push for gender-neutral terms a thing feminism likes?
Some feminists like that. Some don't. Feminism is not a monolith, and there are a lot of different takes and opinions to be had. I personally do not mind describing a woman as a woman. I mean, she is holding the hammer, not they, unless this new character is one who takes pains to describe itself without reference to its sex.
 

Overhead

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Inscription of Mjolnir in What If #66 Vol 2 released October 1994 where Rogue gets the power of Thor and becomes the new Goddess of Thunder


Cover of the issue (Which is pretty accurate as comic covers go seeing as she kills the shit out of the Avengers)
 

happyninja42

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immortalfrieza said:
Drake the Dragonheart said:
Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
It was Odin himself that inscribed the inscription, and his word is quite literally cosmic law. Therefore, if the hammer has "he" on it, only males may wield it unless Odin himself says otherwise.
Yes because it couldn't possibly be that the writers of the comic simply used the most personally familiar pronoun, and didn't think that the comic would like 30+ years, and also just didn't consider a female Thor when they were coming up with the comic. It must be cosmic law by Odin!! xD

Also, it's not like comic book universes don't retcon their cosmic laws and preset understood constants all the time. Hell comics are famous for that kind of stuff.

Besides, given the actual Norse mythology having plenty of female characters who are perfectly capable warriors, the idea that they would see some problem with a woman fighter is kind of silly.

JimB said:
Baddamobs said:
Err, I'm in the camp that think it should probably just be gender-neutral. Hell, isn't the whole push for gender-neutral terms a thing feminism likes?
Some feminists like that. Some don't. Feminism is not a monolith, and there are a lot of different takes and opinions to be had. I personally do not mind describing a woman as a woman. I mean, she is holding the hammer, not they, unless this new character is one who takes pains to describe itself without reference to its sex.
Yeah I have no issue with describing her as a her/she. But I think to make things less messy with the inscription, the easiest fix for that is to just have it say "they". Then it's a non-issue when it comes to anyone becoming the new Thor. As long as they are worthy, then it's fine.
 

immortalfrieza

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Happyninja42 said:
immortalfrieza said:
Drake the Dragonheart said:
Does the hammer itself decide the inscription? So Mjolnir is an intelligent item then? I know in the movie Oden spoke the words and then the symbol appeared just before he flung it to earth.
It was Odin himself that inscribed the inscription, and his word is quite literally cosmic law. Therefore, if the hammer has "he" on it, only males may wield it unless Odin himself says otherwise.
Yes because it couldn't possibly be that the writers of the comic simply used the most personally familiar pronoun, and didn't think that the comic would like 30+ years, and also just didn't consider a female Thor when they were coming up with the comic. It must be cosmic law by Odin!! xD

Also, it's not like comic book universes don't retcon their cosmic laws and preset understood constants all the time. Hell comics are famous for that kind of stuff.

Besides, given the actual Norse mythology having plenty of female characters who are perfectly capable warriors, the idea that they would see some problem with a woman fighter is kind of silly.
I don't think you get it. In the Marvel comics, if Odin declares something, it happens. The cosmic laws, the laws of physics, you name it will change to accommodate him. If Odin says "if he be worthy" then only males should be able to wield the hammer. The writers attempting to let a woman use it is a blatant retcon and a complete insult to the history of the Marvel Asgardians.
 

Overhead

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immortalfrieza said:
I don't think you get it. In the Marvel comics, if Odin declares something, it happens. The cosmic laws, the laws of physics, you name it will change to accommodate him. If Odin says "if he be worthy" then only males should be able to wield the hammer. The writers attempting to let a woman use it is a blatant retcon and a complete insult to the history of the Marvel Asgardians.
Nah, you need to be a lot stronger than Odin to change the laws of physics. He can do it on a localised level (like the hammer not being picked up by people who are not worthy) but he's not a universal scale reality warper and there are more powerful beings who can overrule anything he tries.

It's also never been shown that the intention behind the magic was that only men should be able to wield it, rather than simply a male orientated pronoun used in the inscription which has no bearing on the magic.

If anything it should be assumed that both genders can pick it up (I certainly always have) because having a weapon which only worthy people can use and only allowing men to be worthy is fairly scuzzy.
 

JimB

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Happyninja42 said:
I think to make things less messy with the inscription, the easiest fix for that is to just have it say "they." Then it's a non-issue when it comes to anyone becoming the new Thor. As long as they are worthy, then it's fine.
This is a situation in which English just falls short. There's really no one, appropriate word here, and "he or she," while the most grammatically correct, is still clunky. As it stands, I am fine with Mjolnir saying "she," if only because the panel that shows the inscription changing is actually kind of cool.
 

GeneralFungi

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FogHornG36 said:
because man no longer means mankind

also, I'm more offended that the inscription is in English!
If it can change one word depending on the gender of the wielder, I wonder if it can change the translation of the inscription depending on the native language of those wielding it as well.

I dunno, I find it to be an interesting and novel concept. It adds another interesting layer of mysticism behind a mystical object, and I'm really not sure why this is a problem for some people. Comic book characters have been getting female doubles for a long time now. Most have just kind of been more of a walking signpost (Super Girl) some have grown off from their roots and developed their own identity. (She-Hulk)
 

BoogieManFL

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I always wondered why they just didn't word in a neutral way. Having it go one way or the other seems silly.

So before the hammer would only work for worthy men? Now it'll only work for worthy women?

Either way, silly.
 

JimB

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BoogieManFL said:
So before the hammer would only work for worthy men? Now it'll only work for worthy women?
I think we can assume, from the fact that the inscription's wording changes, that the purpose is not to serve as a legal bar against either gender, but rather as a combination of warning that only the worthy may wield it and declaration that someone worthy is wielding it.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But what about those that don't identify with being people? ;)

OT: I don't know why they had to change the character in the first place. Unless they go back to old Thor when he was an alter-ego for an established character on Earth. If it is the alter-ego of a new human that Mjolnir has chosen then that is cool, like having a new Green Lantern, or a Captain Americe... but if they have just rewritten the back story for an established character then that annoys me. Why not just make a new character within the world that emulates the previous one? Kind of like Bullet Ray Bill was... He wasn't Thor, but he is essentially the same.
 

Overhead

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Elementary - Dear Watson said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But what about those that don't identify with being people? ;)

OT: I don't know why they had to change the character in the first place. Unless they go back to old Thor when he was an alter-ego for an established character on Earth. If it is the alter-ego of a new human that Mjolnir has chosen then that is cool, like having a new Green Lantern, or a Captain Americe... but if they have just rewritten the back story for an established character then that annoys me. Why not just make a new character within the world that emulates the previous one? Kind of like Bullet Ray Bill was... He wasn't Thor, but he is essentially the same.
It isn't rewriting Thor's backstory. He has temporarily become unworthy, so he can't lift the hammer and had to leave it on the moon. This is someone else who is worthy, who is female and will apparently call herself Thor but is a separate person from the original Thor.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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Overhead said:
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
But what about those that don't identify with being people? ;)

OT: I don't know why they had to change the character in the first place. Unless they go back to old Thor when he was an alter-ego for an established character on Earth. If it is the alter-ego of a new human that Mjolnir has chosen then that is cool, like having a new Green Lantern, or a Captain Americe... but if they have just rewritten the back story for an established character then that annoys me. Why not just make a new character within the world that emulates the previous one? Kind of like Bullet Ray Bill was... He wasn't Thor, but he is essentially the same.
It isn't rewriting Thor's backstory. He has temporarily become unworthy, so he can't lift the hammer and had to leave it on the moon. This is someone else who is worthy, who is female and will apparently call herself Thor but is a separate person from the original Thor.
That's good then. I haven't been able to see much on it, but that at least makes much more sense. Much better than making an Antonietta Stark, or a Shiela Banner...!
 

StewShearerOld

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One would assume that the hammer's engraved in Norse and the English is a translation of convenience for the reader.

Thor being a public domain mythological figure and not really a "Marvel" anything, and all.