Marvel Studios Boss: Female-Led Marvel Movie is a "Challenging Thing"

[Anachronism]

That said, if they need to find some space on their roster for a female led title, I don't why they have such a continuous hard on for the Ant Man movie. That thing is a total disaster in the making that I doubt more than a few people really care about at all.

I have loads of friends who love comics, and I was in the comics society at university. I know a grand total of one person who gives a shit about Ant-Man. I completely agree with you about this - nobody cares about him, the film's gearing up to be a total train wreck, so they should just scrap the whole thing and make a fucking Captain Marvel movie already. When even Aquaman thinks the power to shrink is kind of sad, you know you're in trouble.

Women aren't mystical, unfathomable entities that are incredibly difficult to write stories about, they're people, just like everyone else in the Marvel movies. I don't see why a film with a female lead needs to have a different approach to one with a male hero. Marvel just scored a major critical and commercial hit with a tree and a raccoon. We're ready for a female superhero. In theory I can understand his point about juggling franchises, but it's still a bit of a cop-out.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Oh! Can we have a movie where Black Widow is sent to track down Squirrel Girl? Pretty please? I think that would both be interesting and highly amusing.

 

[Falterfire]

I get what he's saying, but it sounds a lot like a hole they dug for themselves. They were the ones who decided that the solo movies they needed to make were Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, and Hulk. Nobody forced them to choose those characters over Wasp or Ms/Captain Marvel or any number of other female heroes.

Yes, but a talking tree and raccoon won't put off the fan base like a woman will.

At this point the movie fans outnumber the comics+movies fans by such a huge margin it isn't even funny. Avengers the movie made something like a billion dollars. Avengers the comic book sells about [http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-06.html] 54,000 copies a month. Even if every single person buying the Avengers comic book is a completely stereotypical basement dwelling misogynistic asshole (And I assure you they aren't) it still wouldn't matter if they thought a Carol Danvers movie was a terrible idea.

It's kinda sad, but at this point every single person who reads the comic for a character were to boycott that character's movie the lost ticket sales would not be noticed.

 

[PirateRose]

Oh for Christ sake. Marvel you were doing so well until this guy opened his fat mouth and did the whole "Women are hard!" bullcrap.

To boot, "we have so many franchises to handle!" So all the male lead ones just have to be done first for whatever reason?

They really need to drop Ant-Man.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think the title of this article kind of miss characterized the statement. I think everything he said was absolutely right and going back to what bob said, eventually one of these has to fail, and if it's the first female lead one in this universe than what message is that going to send? I think waiting for the right moment is important, and not rushing out with something half assed just because people are asking for it.

This is an extremely good point.

Yes, it would be easy for Marvel to just spit out a Widow story or a Gamorra story now that people know who she is. Yes, they don't necessarily need anything special to make a workable female led superhero movie. Yes, you can view the entirety of the statements in the original story as just corporate PR talk and excuses.

But, the fact is, it's much better if Marvel is extra careful about what they do and how they approach this. As nice as it would be to see a female led Marvel movie, if that movie tanks at the box office or is a critical bomb, that's only going to make things worse for female led superhero movies in the future. Just look at games for some clear examples of that. We're still seeing references to games like Beyond Good and Evil and Mirrors Edge when developers/publishers are asked why they don't make more female led games. Both were considered good/great games but for various debatable reasons both did poorly in terms of sales. I would say caution is actually advisable otherwise the "first" female led superhero movie that we see may end up being the last.

 

[Lilani]

I think the title of the article paints what he said in a bit more negative light than it actually was. The title would suggest that he meant "challenging" in the sense of creating a movie with a female lead that people would want to watch. But what he really said was he knows people want to see movies with female leads, but due to their massive schedule of films within their franchise and their desire for quality they haven't gotten around to it.

And I get that. I would rather have a great Black Widow movie a few more years out than a rushed one that doesn't have a proper place in their current canon next year. I rather like the web of stories Marvel is weaving, and they shouldn't let any outward demands change their course.

I have nearly been driven to my wit's end when it comes to heads of franchises or projects giving bullshit reasons for avoiding female leads, or any sort of female presence at all within their movies or games. But, this one is totally respectable, and delivered in a totally respectable manner. So lay off Escapist, let's not shove somebody in front of the firing squad until they've actually done something wrong.

 

[Queen Michael]

Oh, come on. Movie Black Widow is barely a superhero. I'd say the best female superhero to get her own movie is Jubilee. They'd have to make her not a mutant, of course, but apart from that I think it'd really work. All the other MCU superheroes have some sort of connection to the government (the Guardians of the Galaxy don't count, okay?) or secret experiments. It'd be fun with someone who doesn't.

 

[Something Amyss]

... ah, good point.

(But thankfully, the appeal of the Marvel movie universe now extends beyond any toxic fanbase.)

I'm not sure that's true, since Hollywood logic says women don't sell in big blockbusters. And ignore any examples to the contrary, they don't seem to count. I'm not even sure comic book fans are more toxic than the rest of the population.

Continuing that thought:

At this point the movie fans outnumber the comics+movies fans by such a huge margin it isn't even funny. Avengers the movie made something like a billion dollars. Avengers the comic book sells about [http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-06.html] 54,000 copies a month. Even if every single person buying the Avengers comic book is a completely stereotypical basement dwelling misogynistic asshole (And I assure you they aren't) it still wouldn't matter if they thought a Carol Danvers movie was a terrible idea.

Which still only matters if the overall audience will accept it. Just because they're different audiences doesn't mean that they won't have the same problems. Hell, Heimdall had the Neo-Nazis (sorry, Godwin's Law) and comic book nerds butthurt over the same thing, albeit for different reasons, though I'm still unconvinced racism wasn't a factor in comic book fans protesting.

Which brings up the previous questions: would Marvel do a Carol Danvers movie? Would the MCU fans be behind it? Would Marvel put the same level of promotion into Ms./Captain Marvel as they would the Avengers, or at least Guardians of the Galaxy?

As I pointed out in a previous post, female leads are heavily resisted in a lot of genres, and tend towards underpromotion. We know Marvel can really sell even their B and C listers, but the question is, would they? Would they put as much of an effort in making the movie-goers care about Captain Marvel or She-Hulk as Iron Man, Hulk, or even Groot?

And at best I can say "...maybe?"

This isn't about comic book fans.

It's kinda sad, but at this point every single person who reads the comic for a character were to boycott that character's movie the lost ticket sales would not be noticed.

I really don't think that's sad. Because if Marvel gave a single damn about what comic book fans wanted, these movies probably wouldn't get made. And while I'm still somewhat of a comic fan, I really, really enjoy the movies.

 

[Exterminas]

You don't need "special" stories just because you have a female in the lead role.

Yeah, I mean, just follow Marvel movie formula that has worked so well. Make the character chase a McGuffin that can destroy the world, give her some funny quips, some infighting with her allies and all of them culminating to a large battle at the end. Don't see the issue here...

Exactly! Personally, I even think that Captain America: Winter Soldier would have worked perfectly as a Black Widow Movie, with the roles of Cap and Black Widow reversed. Obviously the script needed the Cap in there for certain plot points, but the majority of his screen time the average Marvel-Hero spends beating people to pulp and that would have worked just as well for Black Widow as the main Pulp-Maker.

 

[thehorror2]

I don't see why they think making a Black Widow movie is a risk at this point. I mean, Scarlett Johansson has basically proven she can carry a movie on her own at this point (Lucy beat Hercules last weekend - badly, and Hercules had the Rock to hold it up, no pun intended) and a lot of people REALLY like Black Widow. Heck, throw in a little Hawkeye if Jeremy Renner is game for it, he's got star power too. (Bourne Legacy did good numbers worldwide, iirc) It'll be great!

 

[Redd the Sock]

It's hard to argue with him. I've been saying it for a while that our incessant desire to only put our money down on the highest quality / most popular media is holding it back as attempts to differentiate underperform, giving credence to the idea that that all the calls for diversity aren't as important to people as they claim, and studios should just focus on what was working. Hence, you can't just throw out a female character without making the movie "that good" or you risk further feeding the mindset. I mean, I prefer to smack people in the head and point out how much they love a group of z-listers in a movie just because of how it was marketed, so what are they missing that isn't plastered everywhere, but that's just me.

And on that fact, I know Marvel's lineup of women isn't as pronounced as DCs, and most of the better ones are tied to lines Marvel can't bring to film, but can we get a bit more variety in who we ask for? I swear, most people are demanding a Ms Marvel movie than reading her book.

I mean, my first instinct is Phylia Vell as done during her run as Quasar. Leave the clone crap out and just have a story of a child trying to live up to their father's potential. Great for diversity too: women, lesbian, and as a pink skined kree seen as an inferior second class citizen. (i realize the last one might have issues, but it could get a point acrosss.)

 

[Ishal]

I'm not so sure Black Widow is the way too go with this. She's already pretty entrenched in Cap's story.

I don't read comics, so I don't know if there is plenty of plot worth exploring with her character. But, like others have said, Marvel has deviated from the source material before, and outright ignored it at some points. So, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to make up something.

Thing is, I don't think marketing would go for that. Wonder Woman is about to make her first appearance in the Batman v Superman film. They'll be watching the reception of that closely. Wonder Woman doesn't have her own stand alone movie, just like Black Widow doesn't, but if Marvel are going to go with a movie with a female lead, they'll want someone who can compete with WW in popularity. I don't think Black Widow is the character to do that.

So, Miss Marvel then? I'm not opposed to any of these heroines getting the spotlight. But Marvel's only going to do what's best for business, and I as a rule of thumb, DC's heroes are more iconic than Marvel's. That's just the impression I get.

 

[MrMan999]

Way to misrepresent what the guy actually said OP.

Honestly, where did the desire to have a Black Widow movie so much come from? I'd understand it if they wanted Captain Marvel or She-Hulk etc. but BW? She was in 3 movies that aptly showed what she can do, is the most featured secondary hero and isn't her past being unclear part of her gimmick? Hell, she's got it a lot better than War Machine, Falcon, or Hawkeye.
If they want to elevate a secondary character I'd rather it'd be Falcon, his flying ability could lead to some creative set pieces that differ enough from Iron Man's to be entertaining. And if they want a female lead than go for a heavy hitter like Captain(Ms.? Always thought Cap Marvel was Shazam) Marvel, not freaking Black Widow..grumble..grumble

I agree. What about a She Hulk Movie? Or a Carol Danvers movie. Or even a Squirrel Girl movie? I don't know where all these Black Widow fans came from. She's not really that interesting a character.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

And if they want a female lead than go for a heavy hitter like Captain(Ms.? Always thought Cap Marvel was Shazam) Marvel, not freaking Black Widow..grumble..grumble

a) I totally agree with you a Captain Marvel movie would be sick, especially if they worked it in correctly

b) The Captain Marvel thing is actually a hilarious story of copywrights and various infringements, basically Fawcett owned Captain Marvel who was bought out by DC and sued for being too like Superman. Marvel then created a character due to a loophole called Captain Marvel who was... actually an alien so even more like Superman than before.

Incidentally, he was actually a captain in the Kree army and his name was Mar Vell so when he introduced himself everyone assumed he was a costumed hero because... well, his Kree army uniform looked superheroic. Carol Danvers is a human airorce pilot who got similar powers due to Mar Vell f*cking up with some alien technology. Anyway, Mar Vell dies of Cancer and Ms Marvel carries on and eventually at Captain America's insistance, takes on his name and becomes Captain Marvel as she's been for the last few years now.

So, maybe this is just me, but given Mar Vell was originally like an Anti-Superman (he was sent to work out plans for an invasion after all) it could be a really movie to have the first 2/3rds be Mar Vell on Earth and then last 1/3rd is Carol being the new Captain Marvel and kicking some ass. I'd be worried it'd play too much like Thor but it could still be pretty amazing.

 

[Zontar]

Oh for Christ sake. Marvel you were doing so well until this guy opened his fat mouth and did the whole "Women are hard!" bullcrap.

To boot, "we have so many franchises to handle!" So all the male lead ones just have to be done first for whatever reason?

They really need to drop Ant-Man.

I don't see how that last sentence is the logical conclusion of the first two. If anything it's about god dame time given the fact the movie is coming 5 years late.

 

[romxxii]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Marvel Movies, but when freaking Ant Man gets a Movie before Black Widow, someone really has dropped the ball.

Ant Man was a founding member of the Avengers. He should have gotten a movie a long time ago.

 

[rbstewart7263]

The titles misleading. Hes saying they have alot on there plate already not that a female led movie is a difficult thing. Come on escapist I really dont care or respect the click baiting.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I think there's a lot of legitimacy to his concerns and I don't envy him for all of the stuff they really do have on their plate. That said, if they need to find some space on their roster for a female led title, I don't get why they have such a continuous hard on for the Ant Man movie. That thing is a total disaster in the making that I doubt more than a few people really care about at all.. if you need room, then there you go. Put that lame duck out of it's misery and you've got some.

This is true. I mean if you polled people on which theyd prefer. Ms badass or boring ass wife beater we know who they would pick. given one of the things about antman that I guess made him compelling to some was his imperfections.

 

[Robot Number V]

Wow, so that headline is basically a huge lie.

The "challenging thing" he was talking about was CLEARLY managing all of Marvel's franchises. In fact, he pretty said in specific terms that there's absolutely nothing challenging about making a movie with a female lead, going on to list several examples.

Oh for Christ sake. Marvel you were doing so well until this guy opened his fat mouth and did the whole "Women are hard!" bullcrap.

To boot, "we have so many franchises to handle!" So all the male lead ones just have to be done first for whatever reason?

They really need to drop Ant-Man.

See? See what you've done? Now we've got shit like this. Great job, Escapist. Great job. Might want to go back and read what the guy said a little more carefully, Pirate.