Marvel's The Defenders on Netflix

[Kyrian007]

I liked it. But, I could have liked it much... much more. I found its biggest problem was it seemed to be an attempt to "fix" the worst parts of the Marvel Netflix shows. It is just a continuation of the terrible second half of Daredevil season 2 and Iron Fist. Storylines and plot points built in Jessica Jones and Luke Cage... aren't advanced at all. Jones and Cage are just there... along for the ride.

Again, it wasn't bad. Oh and a little spoiler here

Spoiler

They pull the fakeout villain... AGAIN. Enough with the freaking fakeout villain pulled for the far less interesting villain.

But for the first team up... it should have been bigger. More important. And it should have maybe tied in to the established stories from all of the characters... not just an 8 episode postscript to Iron Fist and Daredevil.

Or maybe they should have included Kingpin again. He has been the best part of everything established so far.

On the other hand, they wrapped up some of those less interesting elements,

Spoiler

I think we may have seen the last of The Hand

so maybe we can move on to something more interesting. And speaking of moving on, I like where they are going with how they ended it. DD season 3 should be awesome if it is headed where it seems to be. Interestingly it would be headed toward an appearance of the Avengers (or at least Cap.) But since that won't happen it will still be good to see where they are going with this angle. And we did see decent character interaction between Danny and Luke. They left heroes for hire in a good place. There were some surprisingly good character moments between Matt and Jessica, two characters who have had little real chemistry with most of the other characters in their own shows. If nothing else Jessica could always use a good lawyer.

Could have benefitted from being a little longer I suppose. 8 episodes seems kind of shrimpy. But with the story they decided on, I'm not sure adding more would have been good for it. In the end, to me this seemed less like "The Defenders" and more like "The Defenders meet for the first time and don't quite gel, but its enough to defeat a tier 2 not all that interesting threat." Maybe next time we will get the "Big villain" and the "Defenders come together moment" that seemed to be lacking here.

 

[helwyr]

Well I don't know how you can say that second spoiler considering the last episode.

 

[Cycloptomese]

I had a lot of fun with it. I thought it was overall very enjoyable. As always, I've got a couple of complaints. Karen and Foggy's inclusion annoyed me in particular. I really enjoyed these characters in both Daredevil seasons, but in Defenders they annoyed me. I wanted to see Daredevil do his thing and kick some ass. Their whole purpose seemed to be preventing him from doing so. Also, there were a couple of fight scenes that seemed a little over edited as though an attempt was being made to hide stunt doubles. Overall though, I really enjoyed it.

 

[DaCosta]

Yeah, I liked it, but was mostly left looking forward to see what will happen in their respective solo series in the future. I will say though that I was surprised by how happy I was to just see all these characters again.

Spoiler

Iron Fist S2 in particular is looking way more promising, after Danny decides to become a vigilante at the end of the defenders. People give shit to Finn Jones for not knowing kung fu, but Charlie Cox sure as hell doesn't know kung fu either. The difference is that in Daredevil they can just put the mask on a stunt double who does know kung fu, and have him do the fight scenes instead. It's the showrunner's fault for not giving Iron Fist his costume in the first season, hopefully they'll do it in the next season then.

 

[Rednog]

Iron Fist flat out makes everything he's in worse.
He's whiny and annoying, it's like a child with a glowing fist. As soon as I saw the fucking wall I knew that pissant was going to get tricked into punching it. And I cannot rant enough on how bad Iron Fist actors are at fighting. Compare it to something like Daredevil where you can feel the hits, acrobatics, and they're actually landing hits. Iron Fist fights are tons of cuts and wide swings. Marvel has a budget get these guys some training.
The first few episodes were fine, but the last 2 were abysmal. When I heard the hiphop track playing during the big fight I legitimately thought some kind of background ad was on my computer, it came out of no where. It's like something straight out of a 90s movie.

And what the fuck was the goal of the hand. First they're like oh we just wanna go back home nothing else matters, we want to keep on living just to get back. Find the black powder....FUCK IT ETERNAL LIFE WOOOOO.

 

[Souplex]

While I liked it for the most part, can we just come together as a society and admit that ninjas were never actually cool? We're not 7 anymore, we don't have to delude ourselves.

Spoiler: The ending

Matt's "Sacrifice" was really dumb. He was basically "Killing himself" for no reason. It's made even dumber by the fact that it didn't stick.

Overall I'd rank it...
1. The parts of Daredevil season 2 when the Punisher was the antagonist, before Elektra and the Hand shit started.
2. Jessica Jones.
3. The part of Luke Cage before Cottonmouth died.
4. Daredevil season 1.
5. Defenders.
6. Iron Fist.
7. Luke Cage when Diamondback got involved.
8. Daredevil season 2 once Elektra and the Hand shit starts up.

 

[Trunkage]

Can we just be finished with the Hand now. I was over them in DD1

 

[Zontar]

Can we just be finished with the Hand now. I was over them in DD1

Madam Gao is probably still kicking, but I think they're mostly done with.

I honestly feel like much of the plot was the idea they had when they just wanted 4 series and a mini series, and they just changed things a bit to take into account the fact that DD got a second season before the miniseries, and all will be getting another season after this.

I feel mixed about the series. First 4 episodes where a good buildup with a great "everyone meets at once" fight, but the second 4 episodes where kind of underwhelming. You know the bad guys are all going to loose, that most are going to die, the only surprise I got was the fact that two of the secondary characters on the good guy's side didn't die when I thought they would for narrative reasons.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I don't think I have it in me to watch this show. I did DD Season 1, bored. Luke Cage half of Season 1, bored. Iron Fist, 3 episodes, bored (and I only gave it 3 because Faramir from LotR was in it!)

Still, compared to The Flash and Supergirl, anything is more watchable. Those shows are so bad I can't fathom how they're still going (assuming they are).

 

[Kyrian007]

Well I don't know how you can say that second spoiler considering the last episode.

Well,

Spoiler

the last episode saw the deaths of what were left of the fingers of the hand. Gao's in particular was a little ambiguous, but there wasn't much room for anybody (who didn't have a Season 3 already assured) to get out.

Given how little interest the hand as a group have gotten from the critics and fans... It seems like that final episode was a fairly explicit "these guys are done" statement with a little wiggle room if they wanted to bring back one for a "surprise villain" down the road.

 

[TallestGargoyle]

Compare it to something like Daredevil where you can feel the hits, acrobatics, and they're actually landing hits. Iron Fist fights are tons of cuts and wide swings.

Daredevil has the benefit of slapping a mask on so they can switch him out with a stunt double.

 

[maninahat]

I've not quite finished it yet. It's okay, but it has issues.

The good is that they've shortened the number of episodes and the length of the episodes too. There is no bloat or filler to this as a result. Also good is that everyone in the show hates Danny Rand. I think they should have made him the comic relief of the group, but the show does't go far enough that way, but it is still fun seeing Jessica Jones take the piss out of him every time he shouts he's the "immortal iron fist".

The bad is that having four superheroes who's powers all revolve around making them good at punching people means that almost every action scene revolves around punching people. Some are one on ones, some are brawls too big to keep track of, some are just kind of lack lustre because the fight is a bit one sided (they are superheroes after all) or just without any real aim. My favourite action scene isn't a fight scene, it simply consists of Matt Murdock and Jessica Jones trying to tail one another at the same time.

 

[helwyr]

Spoiler

the last episode saw the deaths of what were left of the fingers of the hand. Gao's in particular was a little ambiguous, but there wasn't much room for anybody (who didn't have a Season 3 already assured) to get out.

Spoiler

Matt survived while the building came down as he was kissing Elektra. He woke up which means he was taken there. Elektra survived. It's easy to assume that if those two survived then Gao and the bad ass Japanese guy survived too. They could have taken some of the product with them on their way out of there.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Spoiler

the last episode saw the deaths of what were left of the fingers of the hand. Gao's in particular was a little ambiguous, but there wasn't much room for anybody (who didn't have a Season 3 already assured) to get out.

Spoiler

Matt survived while the building came down as he was kissing Elektra. He woke up which means he was taken there. Elektra survived. It's easy to assume that if those two survived then Gao and the bad ass Japanese guy survived too. They could have taken some of the product with them on their way out of there.

Spoiler

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Gao saved Daredevil. She seemed to really respect him as an opponent and also seemed to have an odd code of honor that would explain her saving him. If indeed she did so.

 

[helwyr]

Spoiler

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Gao saved Daredevil. She seemed to really respect him as an opponent and also seemed to have an odd code of honor that would explain her saving him. If indeed she did so.

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Gao saved them all... And if they all made it out it means the dragon bones were accessible and the two most interesting fingers are left alive.

They could also recast Madame Gao due to that whole plot so I wouldn't be surprised if she turned up in a different form.
Sigourney's character can be rezzed too because they have the body.

 

[Rednog]

Compare it to something like Daredevil where you can feel the hits, acrobatics, and they're actually landing hits. Iron Fist fights are tons of cuts and wide swings.

Daredevil has the benefit of slapping a mask on so they can switch him out with a stunt double.

But is that really an excuse when they have Electra running around maskless and still being able to make a quality fight?
Also, they could have done the same thing with Iron Fist as they did with Daredevil. Traditionally the character is wearing a half mask just like the grey DareDevil costume. It just blows my mind that they decided for a such a heavy fighting character to hire someone who couldn't pull it off. I'm guessing they just shoved him in because he was on Game of Thrones and they thought it would pull people in.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I've only seen through Episode 6 so far and...well...it's pretty awful.

The fight scenes are lackluster, the acting is a mess, the dialogue is extraordinarily bad, the storyboarding is lazy and meandering, and nothing is hanging together well.

Finn Jones has an almost singularly obnoxious take on his broadly useless character. Sigourney Weaver is struggling to bring some class to a ridiculous villain. Ritter and Cox are doing their best but aren't being given much to work with. Colter remains an arresting physical presence but lacks range and is given some of the worst dialogue of the lot to wrestle. The ancillary characters are largely awful...Stick has never felt more pointless/forced, Foggy and Karen are even more aggravating here than on Daredevil (and their chiding condemnations of his activities have never felt more preposterous), Rosario Dawson's six degrees of separation game wore thin a long time ago, and the villains are all preening stereotypes. I guess Yung is doing alright, although thus far all she's really been called on to do is glower.

The plot line is a soggy pastiche of pseudo-mystical tropes and aimless "evil plans". The protagonists are constantly thrown into interpersonal conflict for no reason other than plot advancement, often with the requirement that they abandon all common sense and reason.

That the show exists in the greater MCU is also straining credulity like never before. "The Hand are going to destroy the city/the world!". "Where can we possibly find people to help us with such a threat?!". The Avengers? I bet Captain America would be down to save New York. Did none of them notice the crazy/suspicious earthquake? Better still is everyone's extreme skepticism. Evil organizations? Guys who can punch really hard/shrug off attacks? UNPOSSIBLE. Yet in this very city not a couple of years past, aliens rained from the sky while super beings and demi-gods opposed them. That would be fine if these four yokels were the only heroes in this universe, but this show piggybacked off the MCU from the very beginning of Daredevil. It was a cute piece of universe building. Acting like that never happened and writing the show as if this was an ordinary New York and these guys the only extraordinary people in it is LAZY ASSED WRITING. Can't afford a cameo from a Disney-contracted actor? Figure out a reason why and write it into the show. Lampshade that shit. Right now you've got a plot hole you could fly one of those SHIELD aircraft carriers through.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if Gao saved them all... And if they all made it out it means the dragon bones were accessible and the two most interesting fingers are left alive.

They could also recast Madame Gao due to that whole plot so I wouldn't be surprised if she turned up in a different form.
Sigourney's character can be rezzed too because they have the body.

Spoiler

Gao also seemed to have only one goal, get back to Kun Lun and maybe she turned a corner, not necessarily became a good guy but isn't exactly a villain. I mean she's done some awful things, but she seemed also to be the one out of the group who didn't quite fit in and maybe had ulterior motives compared to the rest of the Hand.
Its an interesting theory and I'd love to see more Gao in any form.

 

[hermes]

Compare it to something like Daredevil where you can feel the hits, acrobatics, and they're actually landing hits. Iron Fist fights are tons of cuts and wide swings.

Daredevil has the benefit of slapping a mask on so they can switch him out with a stunt double.

It is not like Iron Fist never used a mask.

They also used some tricks to hide stunt men in Iron Fist, like shooting an entire fight from an overhead angle.

 

[hermes]

Compare it to something like Daredevil where you can feel the hits, acrobatics, and they're actually landing hits. Iron Fist fights are tons of cuts and wide swings.

Daredevil has the benefit of slapping a mask on so they can switch him out with a stunt double.

But is that really an excuse when they have Electra running around maskless and still being able to make a quality fight?
Also, they could have done the same thing with Iron Fist as they did with Daredevil. Traditionally the character is wearing a half mask just like the grey DareDevil costume. It just blows my mind that they decided for a such a heavy fighting character to hire someone who couldn't pull it off. I'm guessing they just shoved him in because he was on Game of Thrones and they thought it would pull people in.

There are some interviews about the process that came out after Iron Fist premiered, and it all stinks of bad production. Despite knowing they were doing the series, the producers started shooting after Luke Cage was wrapped up and everything was sped up to a breaking pace... Finn was given less than 2 months to get into shape, and each choreography was practiced by less than half an hour before shooting. Under such conditions, it is a small miracle that he is able to pull *any* moves at all.