Mass Effect 1 may have the best combat in the series.

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Nalgas D. Lemur

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The_Lost_King said:
Mass Effect 1 automatically fails for not having the Vanguard's charge.
I started as a Vanguard in ME, and it was tons of fun abusing the hell out of how broken biotic abilities like lift were (basically walk into room, push lift button, win game). I was kind of pissed off when I kept the same class in ME2 and biotics were completely gimped and the game was turned into a cover-based shooter instead...until I finally got used to using charge properly after a few hours. I ended up with a completely different class from the one I had signed up for, even though it had the same name as in the first game, but it was still just as broken and just as much fun and let me get out of cowering behind chest-high walls. Heh.
 

scorptatious

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Boy, I remember how weird it felt going back into ME1's combat system after playing through ME2 so many times. :/

Really, ME2's combat system to me was pretty smooth and easy to control. Sure, I'll admit, they cut some of the RPG elements out of it, but eh, I still found it fun. Plus the game's characters and story more than made up for it all.
 

WanderingFool

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ME2 and ME3 made vast improvment to the combat for the ME games, but that came at a cost of making the game a bunch of shooting galleries.
 

Dansen

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Mikeyfell said:
Mass Effect 2 had better combat because the Biotic and Tech powers were...uh, what's the word...Useable.
ME1's biotic and tech powers were about as useful as farting on your TV, The Sniper was the only half decent weapon on the higher difficulties, after you dumped all your experience into your pistol and sniper and equipped a couple heat syncs there was no situation you couldn't shoot your way out of by holding down the trigger.

ME2 had a much bigger range of actual worthwhile combat strategies.
And Mass Effect 3 was an unplayable broken mess with controls designed by dog without a brain that didn't understand the concept of buttons.
What?
They are amazing.
Right now Im playing as a vanguard. I activate carnage, apply a biotic barrier, rush the enemy, fire, duck back, then if my shields begin to fall too much I activate shield boost. An enemy is rushing me so I'll just throw him half way across the map with my biotics. A sniper takes a pot shot at me so I just use lift then proceed to cap him at long distance with a pistol using marksman.

ME 2 on the other hand?
Hide behind cover. Poke your head out, use smg to drop merc shield, break armor with warp, finish them off with another round and repeat for the other ten goons mucking around.
 

RJ 17

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Dansen said:
A fair enough analysis if those are your tastes, but I do have to disagree.

In the first game, biotics were wwwaaayyy overpowered, as was the Soldiers "Immunity" (Read: God-Mode) ability. Literally all you had to do was turn that no and mow down everything while taking little to no damage yourself. What was it at max level? Something like 85% Damage Reduction? Yeah, that's not broken at all. Then there's the fact that anything caught in a Lift or Singularity might as well be dead for all intents and purposes.

Indeed, there was a much wider variety of guns and armor in the first game than in the second, the problem is only about 3 of them were worthwhile. You'll find the brand of assault rifle that's better than everything else at your level and that becomes your standard issue. Everything else you find either gets sold or converted to Omnigel. Same with pistols, shotguns, armor, and sniper rifles. If you actually put a lot of thought into tweaking your combat stats beyond "Well this gun has 2 green bars and one red, so overall it's better than the gun I've got right now" then good on' ya. But I'd argue that's putting too much thought into it. No matter what mods you put into a gun, the bad guy's still going to die if you shoot him. The only real upgrades that matter are the ones for your armor, but in that case all you need is the most up-to-date medical inlay to give your characters that don't have built-in regeneration free regeneration and perhaps something that increases shields or damage reduction. For all it's variety, it was actually pretty limited.

Then there's the Specter-Class Weapons which go right ahead and break the game out-right. With the Specter Sniper Rifle, I always put 2 Scram Rail X's and High Explosive Round X on it, make it one shot for obscene damage. Don't like having a bazooka? Well slap some frictionless materials into that Specter Assault Rifle and watch as you have infinite ammo! Literally, the heat meter never goes up. Hold the trigger for about a minute straight and you'll start making progress, but in reality anything you'd have been shooting at by that point would be long since dead.

For me, the addition of Thermal Clips gave the combat more "realism" just in the sense that after firing off a huge chunk of metal from the Widow, there's a satisfaction about cranking out that thermal clip and putting in the next one. People say they didn't like the limited choice of weapons being "Standard, Upgraded, Super Version" but really that's how thing were back in the first game when you cut out all the worthless fat in concerns with the equipment. At least each gun you picked up in the 2nd game felt like it had a unique style of firing.

As for the powers, in the first game all you needed was someone who had tech to open doors and boxes and such and someone who had biotics for the obscene overpower of Lift and Singularity. In ME2 you actually had to plan your way around Shepard's shortcomings. A soldier will do just fine, but having someone with Overload and another with Warp definitely helps. That does bring up the point, however, that since ME2's combat is built around tearing down enemy defenses (Shields, Barriers, and Armor) that the Sentinel is actually the most overpowered class in that game purely because it has both Overload and Warp. Something with shields comes your way, overload. Something with Barriers or Armor comes: warp. You're prepared to absolutely level any kind of situation you come into contact with.

ME 3's fighting style isn't about making up for what Shepard lacks, but rather picking people that actually compliment Shepard's class. In short: it's ALL about the combos. Biotic and Tech combos rule the battlefield and if used properly can clear out any battlefield in a matter of moments.

When all's said and done, I'd say ME3 has the most comprehensive combat system. If you're a biotic you can still do massive damage against shields so long as you set up, for instance, a warp-throw combo. In ME2, if you try using an ability on someone's whos protection is strong against that ability (i.e. trying to warp someone with Shields) you're just wasting your time. And in ME1, considering that on the harder difficulties the enemies get that game-breaking Immunity ability (most of them, in fact, on the hardest difficulty) it makes every fight a ridiculous pain in the ass. Seriously, approach a bunker on an uncharted planet that has some dudes outside defending it, wait till one pops on Immunity, and then blast them with the Mako. Sure, their body goes flying for (in the game) miles and miles and miles, literally sailing over entire mountain ranges. But you bet your ass he'll dust himself off and stand back up when he lands. My record is shooting a Pirate quite literally half-way across the map and having him survive.
 

Zeraki

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I always hated the combat in the first game, even when it first came out. If it weren't for the story, I would never have even finished the game(although screwing around with biotics could be fun).

I always thought it would have been amazing had it actually been more tactical like Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, or more action oriented like Gears of War, while still implementing the RPG elements(which were already paper thin to begin with).

That's also why I didn't have a problem with the combat moving more towards the Gears style in the second game. An opinion which seems to be greatly in the minority on the internet.

Mikeyfell said:
Mass Effect 2 had better combat because the Biotic and Tech powers were...uh, what's the word...Useable.
ME1's biotic and tech powers were about as useful as farting on your TV
Biotics were ridiculously overpowered in the first game. All you needed was Liara with a leveled up singularity and you were pretty much set. Although it also had drawbacks considering the biotics would also break the game at times. More than a few times I had issues where I couldn't continue the game because Liara used a singularity and an enemy I had to kill to progress had phased through a wall and was now unkillable. I eventually had to shut off squad power usage because of it.
 
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I tend to agree. It was fun and massively varied.

My only real complaint was how absurdly easy it was.

Even on Insanity, there wasn't a single spot in the game that was particularly difficult. The stats and weapon mods were just too easy to break with the right combo of damage, knockdown and cooldown reduction.
 

Mikeyfell

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Dansen said:
Mikeyfell said:
Mass Effect 2 had better combat because the Biotic and Tech powers were...uh, what's the word...Useable.
ME1's biotic and tech powers were about as useful as farting on your TV, The Sniper was the only half decent weapon on the higher difficulties, after you dumped all your experience into your pistol and sniper and equipped a couple heat syncs there was no situation you couldn't shoot your way out of by holding down the trigger.

ME2 had a much bigger range of actual worthwhile combat strategies.
And Mass Effect 3 was an unplayable broken mess with controls designed by dog without a brain that didn't understand the concept of buttons.
What?
They are amazing.
Right now Im playing as a vanguard. I activate carnage, apply a biotic barrier, rush the enemy, fire, duck back, then if my shields begin to fall too much I activate shield boost. An enemy is rushing me so I'll just throw him half way across the map with my biotics. A sniper takes a pot shot at me so I just use lift then proceed to cap him at long distance with a pistol using marksman.

ME 2 on the other hand?
Hide behind cover. Poke your head out, use smg to drop merc shield, break armor with warp, finish them off with another round and repeat for the other ten goons mucking around.
Vanguard is the most "different" class for lack of a better term.
It's the only class that doesn't revolve around cover,
(and I'll admit that when I played Vanguard in ME1 I was on a casual speed run so I could import him into ME2)
But I did put a lot of effort into playing as an Adept and an Engineer and those sucked.
I can remember throwing max level warps and not being able to tell if they were having any effect.
Also ME1 shot guns were garbage.
In all of my higher difficulty ME1 playthroughs I had to keep Ashley alive because she was the only squad member who could do any damage (but that's besides the point)

ME2 vanguards were a pain for me because I could only target 1 enemy every 4 seconds with pull and charge combo and I'd die far too often, it feels like anything would have been more efficient.

ME 3 on the other hand Vanguard was the only playable class because: Warp, charge, biotic explosion, nova, warp, charge, biotic explosion, nova, warp, c... you get the picture.


So Vanguards are the outlier but for Adepts, Engineers and Sentinels ME2 was the best.
 

afroebob

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Seriously? Mass Effect is one of my favorite series of all time but even I know that ME1 had some of the worst combat ever in a good game. It was clunky as hell, it wasn't very balanced, the class ability's cooldowns were so long they were practically useless and all in all it was just so bland and ineffective.

ME2&3, while not revolutionary, was still a lot of fun. The controls were much sharper, the combat was more balanced and the Mass Effect abilities actually became useful. Also, to the people who hate the ME 2&3 leveling system because they aren't 'rpg' enough, I would take less bad RPG elements (ME1 was just micromanagement which isn't fun at all) and more fun combat any day, and considering there was hardly any difference in classes until ME2 when it really comes down to it they were better at being an RPG as well. Either way, ME1 had some shitty ass combat but it, like all of the games, where phenomenal.
 

Happiness Assassin

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I love how people people say ME1 wasn't a samey, corridor shooter when for a majority game you are fighting your way through strictly linear corridors for the story missions or trekking your way across palette swapped planets to fight in the one of the same 4 bases with rearranged boxes.
 

Dansen

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MetroidNut said:
I like to do full-series playthroughs, going through each game in order with a particular class, then repeating with a new one. I've gotten through Soldier and Infiltrator, and I'm nearing the end of Mass Effect 2 with my Vanguard.

Getting through Mass Effect 1 is the worst part of each of these playthroughs. The story is great, but the best characters haven't really come into their own - Garrus and Tali were kind of boring until their character development in ME2 - and the actual gameplay is just...dull. Every sidequest consists of shooting through the same two rooms full of the same three enemies, firing your gun involves holding the trigger for 5 seconds and waiting 15 seconds to cool down, and only a few of the powers are really fun to use (Lift is great, though).
You think Tali got better? I mean she was kind of just there in ME 1 but I appreciated her for adding a little variety and helping me learn about the mysterious Quarians who had created the Geth. They could have gone into that a little bit more but whatever. After 1 Quarians just started poping up everywhere, made them a little less special. Back on topic. Her relationship with Shepherd in 2 is just creepy on so many levels. Lets rewind a little, talking with her in ME 1, during one of the conversations she tells you that her father has been absent most of her life, and she has spent her whole life trying to live up to his name and impress this absent father figure. At the time she joins the Normandy she is coming of age, so lets assume she is the Quarian equivalent of eighteen. Fast forward two years to when she is reunited with Shepherd. As male shep she basically throws herself at you and hangs on your every fucking word. Seriously, Bioware makes it so obvious that she wants you in every dialogue she has with you. So what do we have? A young woman barely out of her teens wants to sleep with shepherd, a male authority figure, a man much like her father... hmmmm....

Great job with the romance options Bioware. Turning Tali into an insecure girl with Daddy issues.

Also Garrus is better in ME 1 as well.
You get to talk to Garrus a grand total of twice in ME 2 assuming you don't pursue him romantically (I'll admit, the Garrus romance is possibly the best one in the game as far as character development goes but still). Other wise he is always fixing calibrators, its bad enough that I think it became a small meme. You get to talk about what he did since you death, which is cool, but could have been more fleshed out. On the other hand in ME 1 I have had four fleshed out conversations with him. I've talked about his past with C-Sec, how he clashed with the system, his father, his potential candidacy as a specter, and his misgivings about letting Sarren stand trial. He even told me about an incomplete case and I helped him finish it. Garrus is a cop with some serious ethical issues, pretty much the same exact character as ME 2 except he tells me more about himself.


Side note:
Yup, ME 1 had loyalty missions. They weren't amazing but still they were there and the best part is that they were COMPLETELY OPTIONAL. Hell, the characters only mention the problems in passing and will only give you the quest if you press them for it. Its funny how Bioware gets so much praise for the loyalty missions, its not like they went out and did anything new with them.
 

Dansen

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Mikeyfell said:
Dansen said:
Mikeyfell said:
Mass Effect 2 had better combat because the Biotic and Tech powers were...uh, what's the word...Useable.
ME1's biotic and tech powers were about as useful as farting on your TV, The Sniper was the only half decent weapon on the higher difficulties, after you dumped all your experience into your pistol and sniper and equipped a couple heat syncs there was no situation you couldn't shoot your way out of by holding down the trigger.

ME2 had a much bigger range of actual worthwhile combat strategies.
And Mass Effect 3 was an unplayable broken mess with controls designed by dog without a brain that didn't understand the concept of buttons.
What?
They are amazing.
Right now Im playing as a vanguard. I activate carnage, apply a biotic barrier, rush the enemy, fire, duck back, then if my shields begin to fall too much I activate shield boost. An enemy is rushing me so I'll just throw him half way across the map with my biotics. A sniper takes a pot shot at me so I just use lift then proceed to cap him at long distance with a pistol using marksman.

ME 2 on the other hand?
Hide behind cover. Poke your head out, use smg to drop merc shield, break armor with warp, finish them off with another round and repeat for the other ten goons mucking around.
Vanguard is the most "different" class for lack of a better term.
It's the only class that doesn't revolve around cover,
(and I'll admit that when I played Vanguard in ME1 I was on a casual speed run so I could import him into ME2)
But I did put a lot of effort into playing as an Adept and an Engineer and those sucked.
I can remember throwing max level warps and not being able to tell if they were having any effect.
Also ME1 shot guns were garbage.
In all of my higher difficulty ME1 playthroughs I had to keep Ashley alive because she was the only squad member who could do any damage (but that's besides the point)

ME2 vanguards were a pain for me because I could only target 1 enemy every 4 seconds with pull and charge combo and I'd die far too often, it feels like anything would have been more efficient.

ME 3 on the other hand Vanguard was the only playable class because: Warp, charge, biotic explosion, nova, warp, charge, biotic explosion, nova, warp, c... you get the picture.


So Vanguards are the outlier but for Adepts, Engineers and Sentinels ME2 was the best.
I have to disagree yet again. My first play-through was as a Sentinel. Those guys are OP cause you get the best of both worlds with none of the flaws. Sabotage+Lift+Throw=Laugh as your enemies either die of fall damage or are in a disabled heap on the other side of the room.

ME 1 Shotguns are amazing. Did you ever bother to put points in weapons masteries? I can one shot a Geth sniper from across the map, and I can send Geth destroyers flying.
 

The_Lost_King

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00slash00 said:
The_Lost_King said:
No, Mass Effect 3 had the best combat, it was amazingly good. Mass Effect 1 automatically fails for not having the Vanguard's charge. Mass effect 1 had the best story though with Mass Effect 3 lagging behind because of that which shall not be named and then Mass Effect 2's crappy story coming in last.
i dont understand why everyone hates the story of mass effect 2. i personally found it to have the most interesting story of the series and the story of mass effect 1 interested me the least. basically mass effect 1, to me, is just the game i have to put up with in order to get to the vastly superior other games
I disliked Mass Effect 2's story because it was, this. Oh no collectors but don't worry just get some squad mates Oh no collectors help ok back to squads, suicide mission ermahgerd. Every mission had to do with the story in ME1 and 3. ME2 was just an intergalactic rave with some collector action thrown in sometimes.
 

repeating integers

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Tank207 said:
...All you need in all the games is Liara with a leveled up singularity and you're pretty much set.
Fixed. Seriously, Bioware never learned how to fix Singularity. Liara pops up once in the whole of ME2 if you get the right DLC, and even in that little segment she completely breaks all semblance of balance with that skill.

Of course, it's still always titanically fun to use.
 

Zeraki

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Happiness Assassin said:
I love how people people say ME1 wasn't a samey, corridor shooter when for a majority game you are fighting your way through strictly linear corridors for the story missions or trekking your way across palette swapped planets to fight in the one of the same 4 bases with rearranged boxes.
That one always gets a bit of a chuckle out of me too. I love the first game, but I am also painfully aware of its many, many flaws. When I do full trilogy runs I always dread having to go through the first game because of how much of a slog it can be. Especially those Mako sections... oh gods those Mako sections.

OhJohnNo said:
Tank207 said:
...All you need in all the games is Liara with a leveled up singularity and you're pretty much set.
Fixed. Seriously, Bioware never learned how to fix Singularity. Liara pops up once in the whole of ME2 if you get the right DLC, and even in that little segment she completely breaks all semblance of balance with that skill.

Of course, it's still always titanically fun to use.
It's even more broken in the first game though, considering it picks up even shielded enemies. They at least tried to balance it somewhat in the later games. Singularity isn't as useful if you're playing Shadow Broker on insanity where even the weakest enemies are shielded/armored.
 

Mikeyfell

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Dansen said:
I have to disagree yet again. My first play-through was as a Sentinel. Those guys are OP cause you get the best of both worlds with none of the flaws. Sabotage+Lift+Throw=Laugh as your enemies either die of fall damage or are in a disabled heap on the other side of the room.

ME 1 Shotguns are amazing. Did you ever bother to put points in weapons masteries? I can one shot a Geth sniper from across the map, and I can send Geth destroyers flying.
What system are you playing on (I played all 3 on 360)
My sentinel with maxed out sabotage wouldn't do any more than a normal pistol shot.


When I played Soldier I got all the weapon skills maxed out, the pistols were the most efficient. they were only slightly weaker than shotguns and assault rifles with much better accuracy and much better range, The only down side to using snipers was the low rate of fire but 2 level X heat syncs would solve that problem.

I could never make any of the powers do anything useful and the every team mate was dead weight, Ashley and Garrus were the only 2 that wouldn't die every ten seconds so They were my main team for my insanity runs.
I found ME1's combat so insufferable that after I beat all the difficulties I switched to Casual (So I only played insanity with my soldier and my adept, and I played Veteran with my engineer, all mixed classes I played on casual and still couldn't make the powers be helpful.
 
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I don't hate the Mass Effect 1 combat as much as others, and it's certainly not enough to put me off the game (the first is still the best in the series to me) but whenever I play the first game I'm just turned off playing anything other than the soldier because none of the abilities seem more fun to me than just shooting stuff with an assault rifle. Which is generally a pretty bad sign when the game intends for you to use an array of abilities. No, for me, the later games had a lot more satisfying combat.
 

Zeraki

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Mikeyfell said:
I could never make any of the powers do anything useful
Biotics were mostly just crowd control in the first game. At times they could be more useful for damage if you were a biotic and combined your powers with others. Having one character use lift then walking underneath the lifted enemies and using throw was always one of my favorite tactics. Especially in the battle of the Citadel when they can go flying away forever or just come crashing down and die from the impact. The highest difficulty I played on was hardcore though, so I don't know how effective the powers are/aren't on insanity.
 

SadisticBrownie

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Nah, man. It was messy and imprecise as fuck, especially early in the game. However, once you got really strong, there was a certain joy in just stomping everything with biotics and never-overheating assault rifles.
 

j0frenzy

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ME1 I had a gun that cool downed almost as fast as it could fire making it so that I had to try to make it overheat and the final boss only got one hit on me because a cut scene cut off my lift & throw juggling. Yeah, it was fun and varied to a certain degree, but balanced it was not.
I was rather found of the combat of ME3 in terms of mobility and firing, and the added depth to the leveling system was a welcomed change from ME2. I will admit I would have preferred a leveling system closer to 1's, but with actual combat closer to 3.