Mass Effect 3 Beta Leak

[Spencer Petersen]

The biggest problem I've had with Bioware is the complete story and gameplay segregation. The inclusion of these modes is a sign they are doing less to integrate the two together and more to make Shepard in combat and Shepard in talky mode 2 entirely separate entities. If each part is so meaningless to the other that it can be removed without detriment then there is a serious problem with your game.

I thought they would be doing more to include serious choices within the gameplay bits as well as ways to develop your character's combat skill from dialogue choices. But they seem to content to keep it as a railroaded, self-indulgent, empowerment fantasy that you occasionally interrupt to kill hundred of nameless assholes, which serves to remind you just how awesome you are.

It's exactly the same as any other RPG, just like it's always been. I don't know why people expected anything different, especially when they've never given any indication that they'd be doing anything other than what they've always done. Especially dialogue options affecting your combat skill...That makes zero sense.

How is a character supposed to behave the same way when he's talking as when he's fighting? Of course he's going to behave differently, they're two very different actions. I'm really not sure what you're looking for here.

The way your character behaves can give great indications as to how they would solve particular problems. Characters that act evasive and mysterious when interrogated or asked important questions might be more inclined to sneak by or use ambush tactics to defeat enemies. Characters which respond resolutely and hold their ground might be more inclined to tank damage in combat and have high shields/armor. People who value life in conversation would be more inclined to use non-lethal methods or crowd control to deal with enemies. People who act rashly and use force to coerce might specialize in more offensive attacks and strategies. Its a simple way of interconnecting your dialogue and your combat, by helping you develop a fighting style or strategy by how you behave in various situations that gauge your values. It doesn't have to be much, just enough to make the flow of events feel more logical and structured, as well as make your character feel like a more consistent entity.

Right now Shepard can spend the entire game talking about forgiveness, how valuable life is and how we should always give people a chance, and then when the combat starts shoots 10 people with frozen bullets and then karate chop them to pieces. It isn't consistent, logical or reasonable, its just bad design.

 

[sarttan]

Looks like this was made WAY before E3, maybe a little before ME2 was released. I wouldn't be suprised if most of the stuff in this gets dumped or remade (That Action mode/RPG mode thing will go I hope.). I've heared unused audio files for ME2's starting area, and it sounds like they made something, dumped it, and then remade it with different elements. Classic, game design if you ask me.

Also, its very clear from this demo that Bioware focused on the story and presentation before working on the actual level designs. I wouldn't be suprised if ME3's plot is just as amazing as the other MEs.

 

[AmstradHero]

The way your character behaves can give great indications as to how they would solve particular problems. Characters that act evasive and mysterious when interrogated or asked important questions might be more inclined to sneak by or use ambush tactics to defeat enemies. Characters which respond resolutely and hold their ground might be more inclined to tank damage in combat and have high shields/armor. People who value life in conversation would be more inclined to use non-lethal methods or crowd control to deal with enemies. People who act rashly and use force to coerce might specialize in more offensive attacks and strategies. Its a simple way of interconnecting your dialogue and your combat, by helping you develop a fighting style or strategy by how you behave in various situations that gauge your values. It doesn't have to be much, just enough to make the flow of events feel more logical and structured, as well as make your character feel like a more consistent entity.

Right now Shepard can spend the entire game talking about forgiveness, how valuable life is and how we should always give people a chance, and then when the combat starts shoots 10 people with frozen bullets and then karate chop them to pieces. It isn't consistent, logical or reasonable, its just bad design.

Nice theorycraft, but a system that limits (combat) gameplay options based upon dialogue (or other gameplay) choices really doesn't translate into good game design. In fact, it would be terrible design. Why? Because plenty of people talk in a way that doesn't translate nicely into appropriate actions.

The best example here is the righteous do-gooder: the noble hero who brutally guns down hundreds of enemies in cold blood. They think they are doing the right thing, even if it is savage killing, because their moral guidelines dictate that "those enemies are evil, bloodthirsty beings who will result in the death of the entire city/country/world/universe". They'll help the poor, save the weak, but those enemies... they've got to die. Every. Last. One.

Any attempt at this ends up going down a "light-side/dark-side" or "open-palm/closed-fist" route which really doesn't fit the bill to any great degree. There are way too many variations for this to work in any sort of complex game environment, and dictating how players must play based on their dialogue choices is grossly constricting.

The only way I could potentially see for this being done would be an improvement on the system within Alpha Protocol. Certain actions (within missions or dialogue) would result in certain perks being awarded to the player. These were minor bonuses that were dependent upon choices made and provided relevant skill, monetary or other bonuses, but did not impact negatively upon the player's ability to pursue other paths.

Any integration would have to offer additional possibilities that tie into previous choices, but have to do so in such a way that it does not limit the ability for players to pursue particular styles of play. Doing that while also maintaining balance across a complex game mechanic system is no easy task.

 

[Ascarus]

In case anyone reads the above post and rages, here's what it really says:

Action Mode: For those who want to emphasize action and combat and minimize story management. Action mode will set automatic replies in conversation and a normal difficulty.

Story Mode: For those who want to emphasize story immersion and minimize combat pressure. Story mode will set manually-selectable replies in conversation and a minimal combat difficulty.

RPG Mode: For those who want to explore both realms of story and combat. RPG mode will set manually-selectable replies in conversation and a normal combat difficulty.

Why are people so angry about this? They're giving us options. You can just choose RPG mode and play like normal. Chill out; it's exactly the same as setting difficulty (which you can also do elsewhere).

what is the point of the first two when the 3rd provides all three? unless of course they decide to dumb down every RPG element to the point of futility as they did in DA2.

action and story mode sound ridiculous. it is supposed to an RPG for crying out loud. i don't want to choose a game play style, i want to roll play the game however the hell i want. if the latter "mode" provides that flexibility it makes the first two redundant by definition.

others lol'd, but i cried a bit. this is the bioware i used to love and defend. what has happened?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I see a lot of Wrex.

This makes me happy.

Indeed.
OP: The good was Wrex and Liara looking great after her redesign. The bad: Ashley's redesign and the game opening up after something from a DLC. Cute. Not like that is a slap in the face or anything to someone who played ME2, but didn't buy the DLC. And if that footage is anything to go by, this is not a good jumping on point for new players.
Edit: Why the complaining about the modes thing? They aren't forcing you to do anything. Just play the game normally.

 

[michiehoward]

Lots of Beta vids still on youtube if you hurry, they are amazing!!!!!!!!

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Thats what RPG mode is for, please read some of the comments or pay some attention to the source next time

I have, and RPG Mode still seems like it will limit your options in both conversations and action sequences.

Well seeing as how you havent played the game you couldnt know that huh? Also there isnt any evidence to support that claim at all

 

[Abedeus]

Do not want.

Why do people even want to play games unfinished?

I'll happily wait for the finished, undoubtedly awesome final version.

Worse, people play the beta (Whether official or leaked in it's crappier than beta state like this one was), then decide whether or not the game is worth buying from that.

That's not how a beta works, people. It's just noooooooot. /rage

Except for 95% of MMOs released in past 10 or so years.

That 5% is WoW, Guild Wars (though it's a stretch...) and games that started P2P and went F2P.

Champions Online, AoC, WAR, LotRO, and so on, so on. Especially official betas are terrible - they're basically glorifed demo versions.

 

[Cooperblack]

RPG mode is the full game.
Story Mode are for those who doesn't care about combat and just want to get on with the story.
Action mode are for those who just wanna shoot things.

It's really not that hard to figure out.. oh and you can change the mode on the fly - it's not like you chose one option at the beginning and is stuck with it.

 

[Condiments]

Don't want to jump right into the conversation, but who is smudboy? Seriously, who the fuck is he? And why must Bioware listen to his arguments? And were can I watch his review?

No worries. Smudboy is a guy who´s on youtube telling everyone how Mass Effect 2 sucked, making stupid points about it, and trolling everyone that disagrees with him. Go look for some of his stuff, and you´ll see what I mean.

WARNING: It´s 60 full-of-shit minutes divided in 6 parts, not counting with the DLC´s videos adn the responses to people that disagree with him.

I've only watched his video pertaining to mass effect 2's story, and he makes entirely valid points. The side stories, characters, and combat were all great, but the main story is absolutely abysmal. It lacks any sense of logic, and coherency that you would expect from "master of vidyagame stories". Doesn't mean the game itself was bad, but the main story was beyond salvageable. Thankfully it was a smaller portion of the game.

I hope they remedy this in ME3, but I'm not hoping for much.

 

[SillyBear]

this looks the same as me2. which means it'll be shit.

Judging games when they are unfinished makes you really smart.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

WANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANT

This looks so awesome I cannot wait for this game, i dare say that for me ME3 is more anticipated than Skyrim (blasphemy I know, i already preordered skyrim though so calm down)

One sad thing though, I am convinced that Anderson will die in the beginning Jenkins died, Wilson died, and from what i've seen Anderson will accompany you on the first mission of ME3,.. this makes me a sad kamina

I'm not getting the hate over the game modes. Just choose 'RPG mode' and then look down your incredibly long nose at anyone who dares to play the game differently, and you're all set.

In other news, Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins were corporate sell-out CoD-clones because they had casual/easy difficulty settings, right?

This also, i dont get why people whine about it, it actually seems like an improvement, if you know that your always going to be a Renegade/Paragon then choose action mode, if you dont like action but love the story choose Story mode, and if you want both choose RPG mode, it also looks like these are just presets and you can customize your own mode, so yeah, this is great

Actually, its always the second character you pick up that dies, so don't worry about Andyson!

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

this looks the same as me2. which means it'll be shit.

...

seriously bioware, did you watch ANY of smudboy's videos?

Ah, a ME2 = Gears of War proponent? *sigh*

If they watched smudboy's videos, I imagine they probably had rational reasons to discard many of his suggestions. I disagreed with a large amount of what smudboy said. He wants a specific type of experience, and the majority of his complaints were nit-picky at worst, and preference based at best.

The story/action/RPG mode disturbs me slightly, but ME2 was largely an improvement on ME1, and based on the little preview information we've had, the gameplay seems to be getting further improvement. I'm hoping that the RPG aspects will also get a bit of a tweak along the way, but we'll just have to wait and see.

by the comment about smudboy, i meant the massive LAZARUS PROJECT thingy on one of the screens, which means they're bringing even more retcons and stupid science to the table.

I think Lazarus was only their for either testing purposes or as a way to edit your character. In no point during the beta did it ever even mention Lazarus as a story element.

 

[Jedoro]

*GASP* HELMET HIDE OPTION! Nice!

This

I would've rocked the Blood Dragon Armor in ME2 if I could've taken off the damn helmet when I was in atmo.

 

[Knight Templar]

by the comment about smudboy, I meant the massive LAZARUS PROJECT thingy on one of the screens, which means they're bringing even more retcons and stupid science to the table.

Did you miss me pointing out that we know we don't have Lazarus and it seems to be just a re-use of the ME2 facemaker?

Did you read that or is the simple and logical explanation not fitting in with this thing you have going?

Haha, what? 60 minutes? Good lord, no I understand the connection to RedLetterMedia. Maybe I'll watch a little fo it and see how full of shit it is...maybe, or nah, I won't bother, if anyone wanna start arguing with me, they're gonna have to type their arguments.

But seriously, why would anyone whine in an hour over a game like ME 2? Granted, it's not the best game ever made, but an hour? Holy shit, he must be insane.

He isn't without valid points. But he presents everything as being done in only one way, lacks the support needed to make many of his claims and never misses the chance to take a cheap shot. A plot analysis shouldn't include a visual glitch or marketing, you know?

 

[deathbydeath]

this looks the same as me2. which means it'll be shit.

Judging games when they are unfinished makes you really smart.

no, judging games based on trends in games, developers, publishers, press, and also comparing sales, recognition, and awards makes me smart. except for the fact that i'm stupid. that doesn't make me smart.

by the comment about smudboy, I meant the massive LAZARUS PROJECT thingy on one of the screens, which means they're bringing even more retcons and stupid science to the table.

Did you miss me pointing out that we know we don't have Lazarus and it seems to be just a re-use of the ME2 facemaker?

Did you read that or is the simple and logical explanation not fitting in with this thing you have going?

SNIP

MOAR SNIP

bioware isn't too lazy to leave in two words from the previous installment, not with all of the other changes they made. sure, they're probably leaving the base code in, they did that with me2, but just copy/pasting it into a beta a year into the development time would give worse impressions than not having it at all. It's not that i'm not compatible with logic, i'm just not compatible with yours.

 

[deathbydeath]

this looks the same as me2. which means it'll be shit.

...

seriously bioware, did you watch ANY of smudboy's videos?

Ah, a ME2 = Gears of War proponent? *sigh*

If they watched smudboy's videos, I imagine they probably had rational reasons to discard many of his suggestions. I disagreed with a large amount of what smudboy said. He wants a specific type of experience, and the majority of his complaints were nit-picky at worst, and preference based at best.

The story/action/RPG mode disturbs me slightly, but ME2 was largely an improvement on ME1, and based on the little preview information we've had, the gameplay seems to be getting further improvement. I'm hoping that the RPG aspects will also get a bit of a tweak along the way, but we'll just have to wait and see.

by the comment about smudboy, i meant the massive LAZARUS PROJECT thingy on one of the screens, which means they're bringing even more retcons and stupid science to the table.

I think Lazarus was only their for either testing purposes or as a way to edit your character. In no point during the beta did it ever even mention Lazarus as a story element.

since i'm short one xbox 360, please enlighten me with a basic synopsis.

 

[SillyBear]

this looks the same as me2. which means it'll be shit.

Judging games when they are unfinished makes you really smart.

no, judging games based on trends in games, developers, publishers, press, and also comparing sales, recognition, and awards makes me smart. except for the fact that i'm stupid. that doesn't make me smart.

Except that isn't what you just did above at all. You said:

"IT LOOKS LIKE ME2 SO IT WILL SUCK!!!"

It looks like ME2 because most of the visuals haven't even been rendered yet. Passing judgement about something that is clearly unfinished makes you sound incredibly annoying. Please, try to be a little more thoughtful than that.

It is painfully clear that both the gameplay and the textures were not even close to be finished in the leak build.

Save your armchair opinions until the actual game comes out. Although from the looks of it, you've already made your mind up about the whole series. I think it's fair to say you'll be whining regardless, right?

 

[Knight Templar]

bioware isn't too lazy to leave in two words from the previous installment, not with all of the other changes they made.

Given this is not the finished product I think it's safe to assume they do intend to remove those words at some point.

sure, they're probably leaving the base code in, they did that with me2,

Which would mean it would still have the name.

but just copy/pasting it into a beta a year into the development time would give worse impressions than not having it at all.

Impressions for whom? This is an internal beta, we are not supposed to see these things and it's clearly unfinished in many areas, do you honestly think it will look like this when finished?

It's not that I'm not compatible with logic, I'm just not compatible with yours.

You are looking at the face maker taken from ME2, even admiting it is from ME2, and assuming that because it's the one from ME2 we will have another Lazarus project, even though we know we will not.
You are not making any sense.

 

[deathbydeath]

this looks the same as me2. which means it'll be shit.

Judging games when they are unfinished makes you really smart.

no, judging games based on trends in games, developers, publishers, press, and also comparing sales, recognition, and awards makes me smart. except for the fact that i'm stupid. that doesn't make me smart.

Except that isn't what you just did above at all. You said:

"IT LOOKS LIKE ME2 SO IT WILL SUCK!!!"

It looks like ME2 because most of the visuals haven't even been rendered yet. Passing judgement about something that is clearly unfinished makes you sound incredibly annoying. Please, try to be a little more thoughtful than that.

It is painfully clear that both the gameplay and the textures were not even close to be finished in the leak build.

Save your armchair opinions until the actual game comes out. Although from the looks of it, you've already made your mind up about the whole series. I think it's fair to say you'll be whining regardless, right?

by "it looks like me2", i mean the whole shebang, which is most of what i mentioned above. (sorry i wasn't clear 'bout that) graphics mean practically nothing to me, unless they get in the way, and that doesn't happen much. and my mind could change, but that's only if they had the overarching plot quality and core combat of me1, and the powers and side writing quality of me2. don't get me wrong, i love me2 more than me1, but also hate it more, too.