Mass Effect 3: Casey Hudson's Largest FUBAR

[Daystar Clarion]

Oooohoohoohoo, I just remembered Bioware's little PR schtick where they said "we're not getting enough constructive criticism from our fans to take their complaints seriously", well APPARENTLY Hudson and Walters don't really care for constructive criticism after all.

If this is indeed true, I wonder what the rest of the ME3 crew are saying...

[HEADING=1]"We fucking told you it was terrible! This is all your fault!"[/HEADING]

 

[Sansha]

From what I understand, Casey told the rest of the writing team to eat it and scribbled in the ending he thought was cool, and we ended up getting the equivalent of Twilight fanfiction in terms of quality.

This is why big projects have teams of writers - so nonsense like this isn't seen by the light of day.

 

[Iwana Humpalot]

I would lol if those two would still write the ending dlc.

 

[salinv]

Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?

I think the point is that the logic the reapers use is valid with their (broken) robotic logic. Humans are going to kill themselves? We can't allow that! Solution: Kill them all, so they don't kill themselves. It sounds stupid from our point of view, but if you think about it, it almost makes sense in a binary fashion.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hmm, you point makes perfect sense considering their massive "TAKE EARTH BACK" ad campaign, overhaul to more gears style tps cover-shooter gameplay, and the fact that the whole space opera aesthetic of the first game was practically scrapped in favor of a military shooter.

Just sayin.

Yeah, given all that, I'm sure the last thing Bioware wanted to do was "dumb things down."

 

[Gigatoast]

snip

Don't insult us, is the first thing you assume simply "lol they're just too dumb to like the ending"? Because the ending isn't particularly clever, philosophical or new, it's simplistic, cliche and insulting.

Mass Effect fans are smarter then you think, most of them have already deconstructed, analyzed and reconstructed every possible meaning behind the ending, to the point where people have developed a conspiracy theory centered around the minute details throughout the entire game. We've written VOLUMES about why the ending doesn't work and you honestly think it's because it just went over our heads?

Here's a quote from an incredible thread over on BSN:

Taken on its own, the ending presents this theme in a very underdeveloped way. Because the plot becomes convoluted once the Catalyst comes on the scene, the narrative has to restate its own themes in order to clarify things. If the narrative worked in a cause and effect way, the Catalyst wouldn't need at this point to make an isolated argument that is supported by its own premise. However, the StarChild's appearance effectively isolates the ending from the rest of the plot both causally and thematically.

This is the rest of the thread: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10550373/1

Read that and tell me we simply don't 'understand' the ending, you arrogant, condescending prick.

 

[mattttherman3]

From the Article:

The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that the ending to Mass Effect 3 could be a textbook case of "Viewers Are Geniuses [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreGeniuses]"; especially when you consider that they were also deliberately going for a divisive and thought-provoking conclusion. They did just that, quite successfully I would say.

... Unfortunately, it seems someone forgot to mention that an ending which is too sophisticated is even worse than one which isn't sophisticated enough in the eyes of the average person.

Ergo, the many of the fans got angry because they locked themselves out of the loop by not paying attention to the multitude of genius bonuses [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GeniusBonus] littered throughtout the series. In all of the games of the trilogy, there's constant allusion to the value of information and the patterns which lie beneath; but nevertheless, that doesn't mean the majority of players are paying attention to them, probably only a very small minority. They are the key to "getting" the meaning behind the ending to Mass Effect, along with the willingness to accept an ending which lacks closure (as it does make it more thought-provoking).

Of course, one could easily argue that they shouldn't of bothered to go for this sort of ending at all; it's just asking for trouble. Even if that was not negotiable, the ending still could have been executed much better. But no matter how you slice it, averting this issue means having it dumb it down a bit; not to the point of painfully obvious, just to the point most players could actually see it coming.

And just to say, this sort of problem is actually very common among intellectuals. Lost within our own minds, considering the intricate relations of many different things at once; we end up forgetting that most people aren't even aware of such things, let alone interested. And then trying to break it down into more digestible segments for the average person, we still end up going over their heads; it takes a few tries to get it right, and it may be a case-by-case basis as well.

---

And to go on a brief tangent, Dragon Age II has a very similar problem with it's narrative; heck, the exact same problem. The issues with level and encounter design didn't help the matter either, as those were undeniable and rather serious issues. Mass Effect 3 didn't have the gameplay problems of DA2, and the vast majority of the narrative was done in a way that most could enjoy on the basic level.

This could be a growing problem for Bioware, at least if they want to continue making mainstream games. All of their games have a very heavy intellectual angle to them, and lately it starting to get a bit too dominant in their narratives; they don't have to sink to the lowest common denominator [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LowestCommonDenominator], but they're very quickly moving into the niche appeal market unless they can strike the right balance between smart writing and accessible writing.

I actually liked the DA2 ending, I didn't like the laziness at which the game was designed, one city sure curbs development time doesn't it lol

 

[Varrdy]

Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?

I think what made Reapers so bloody intimidating (besides the obvious) is that they always had mystery ("We have no beginning, we have no end. We simply...are") and, as Sovereign said, the very concept of their being is beyond [our] comprehension.

Without wishing to make this sound like a rebuttal aimed at you (because it's not), I think what made them so much more menacing (and relentless) was that we tried to apply morals to a being that had no use for such concepts. They firmly and devoutly believe that what they do is neccessary and even beneficial...and that scares me more than any of their weapons!

Someone else said that the endings might have supposed to be "thought-provoking"

Well in that regard they were right and here are the first two things I thought at the end:

"Why did that make about as much sense as cleaning one's genitals with a cheese-grater?"

Closely followed by:

"You have GOT to be kidding me..."

Mission Accomplished guys...

 

[Something Amyss]

I think the point is that the logic the reapers use is valid with their (broken) robotic logic. Humans are going to kill themselves? We can't allow that! Solution: Kill them all, so they don't kill themselves. It sounds stupid from our point of view, but if you think about it, it almost makes sense in a binary fashion.

Reapers seem capable of nuanced thinking, though. Unless you ignore the first game, which seems to be what Bioware did in a lot of instances. There may have been some of this in the second, too.

Um, if you're gonna bring tropes in this, Mass Effect's ending fits "True Art is Incomprehensible [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueArtIsIncomprehensible]" than anything else.

But that ignores that he himself is obviously in on it, and therefore a genius. If he calls itincomprehensible, he's admitting he doesn't get it, and is just like the rest of us dirty proles. Where's the fun without the self-praise?

 

[isometry]

The quality of the writing is just a distraction from the core issue of choices not mattering. This wasn't because of bad writing, it's because they were too cheap to do things properly.

See, letting players make decisions that effect the main story is expensive, since every scene will need multiple variations, and all the choices just multiply the possibilities. Mass Effect took the cheap way out by merging all decisions into the same outcome. To clarify, for the most part they did a good job tracking our decisions about squad mates; the problems all come from decisions related to the main story.

 

[anthony87]

snip

Oh yeah, didn't you get the memo about how any of us who didn't like the ending simply didn't like it because we're a bunch of idiot crybabies who didn't understand it and are setting gaming back as an.....ugh...."artform"?

Our bad I guess.

 

[SageRuffin]

If this is true then people can't defend the ending by saying "it is what Bioware chose to do." as it was two guys who came up with it and the rest of the writing team was no pat of it.

I don't know for certain if it's actually true that Hudson and Walters are entirely to blame. I kind of hope that it is true, though, because then the problem becomes a bit easier to fix: fire those two, then let the other writers handle the ending DLC.

As far as the ending is concerned, I always looked at the series ending in one of two ways, two variations for each: either you defeat the Reapers (or you don't) and Shep survives (or not). So, in regards to a "new ending", I'll settle for an epilogue that cleanly details what happened to who, like with DA:O.

That's just me. For the record,

Spoiler: this happened.

I totally expected Shep to bite it at the end

 

[Zen Toombs]

Um, if you're gonna bring tropes in this, Mass Effect's ending fits "True Art is Incomprehensible [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueArtIsIncomprehensible]" than anything else.

But that ignores that he himself is obviously in on it, and therefore a genius. If he calls itincomprehensible, he's admitting he doesn't get it, and is just like the rest of us dirty proles. Where's the fun without the self-praise?

Just because he gets it doesn't mean it actually makes any sense.

This one is example enough of that.
"This one" refers to me, just so we're clear.

 

[anthony87]

Does anyone else kinda get the impression that the rest of the gaming world is ganging up on the people who aren't happy with the ME3 ending?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Does anyone else kinda get the impression that the rest of the gaming world is ganging up on the people who aren't happy with the ME3 ending?

We're rocking the boat, so it's understandable that people think we're making a fuss out of nothing.

What those people don't realise, is that those of us who are unhappy about the ending have spent several years following a story, growing to love the characters, making universe molding decision, only for it to end with a plothole-ridden mess.

And the biggest offense is that we all got the same ending.

The space magic might have been a different colour, but we all got the same ending.

For a series that put such a huge emphasis on choice, and the affects those choices have on the story, that is unacceptable.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

If this is true then people can't defend the ending by saying "it is what Bioware chose to do." as it was two guys who came up with it and the rest of the writing team was no pat of it.

I don't know for certain if it's actually true that Hudson and Walters are entirely to blame. I kind of hope that it is true, though, because then the problem becomes a bit easier to fix: fire those two, then let the other writers handle the ending DLC.

As far as the ending is concerned, I always looked at the series ending in one of two ways, two variations for each: either you defeat the Reapers (or you don't) and Shep survives (or not). So, in regards to a "new ending", I'll settle for an epilogue that cleanly details what happened to who, like with DA:O.

That's just me. For the record,

Spoiler: this happened.

I totally expected Shep to bite it at the end

Personally, I might (and I cannot emphasize that "might" strongly enough) have been willing to accept the Star Child scene, but if the Reapers absolutely had to go from "incomprehensible Lovecraftian horrors from beyond space and time" to "we turn organics into organic-killing synthetics to stop organics from creating organic-killing synthetics," then that crap had to get a lot more explanation. They'd also have to explain why, if the thing that made the Reapers has been living in the Citadel the whole time, Sovereign's role in ME1 was even necessary.

As for the ending, I still kind of think something like this [http://social.bioware.com/poll.php?user=1183972&poll_id=29101] would be the simplest way to fix it.

(And seriously, Bioware needs to fire whoever's responsible for this travesty.)

 

[Irridium]

snip

Oh yeah, didn't you get the memo about how any of us who didn't like the ending simply didn't like it because we're a bunch of idiot crybabies who didn't understand it and are setting gaming back as an.....ugh...."artform"?

Our bad I guess.

It seems like people forgot when Sucker Punch changed Cole's look for Infamous 2 after fans complained. And how Obsidian ret-conned the Neverwinter Nights 2 ending with its expansions after the original ending was so bad and hated it is now THE go-to ending when describing bad endings.(rocks fall, everyone dies). And when Bethesda did Broken Steel which let you play after the main story because fans complained they couldn't play after the final cut-scene.

But I guess those don't count, for some reason.

 

[anthony87]

Does anyone else kinda get the impression that the rest of the gaming world is ganging up on the people who aren't happy with the ME3 ending?

We're rocking the boat, so it's understandable that people think we're making a fuss out of nothing.

What those people don't realise, is that those of us who are unhappy about the ending have spent several years following a story, growing to love the characters, making universe molding decision, only for it to end with a plothole-ridden mess.

And the biggest offense is that we all got the same ending.

The space magic might have been a different colour, but we all got the same ending.

For a series that put such a huge emphasis on choice, and the effects those choices have on the story, that is unacceptable.

But if you were to say that to someone then they'd just hit back with either "Artistic Integrity *proceeds to wank*" or "Duh, you're just too stupid to see the true message of the ending....*proceeds to wank*"

I suppose it wouldn't annoy me as much if all those people would at least recognise why we're unhappy but then if they did then then that fucking "Art" argument they keep pulling out would carry even less weight than it does at the moment.....

Ugh...I guess I'm just venting now because of Gamesradar. I read an article on it that opened with:
"I don?t know what the ending of Mass Effect 3 entails, and I don?t care. I haven?t even played Mass Effect 3 yet. Hell, I?m still working through the first one at the moment."

and then went on for two pages saying we're wrong, entitled, etc. Got under my skin a little what with GR being one of my favourite sites.

Rocking the boat is kinda fun though.

 

[Gigatoast]

snip

Oh yeah, didn't you get the memo about how any of us who didn't like the ending simply didn't like it because we're a bunch of idiot crybabies who didn't understand it and are setting gaming back as an.....ugh...."artform"?

Our bad I guess.

It seems like people forgot when Sucker Punch changed Cole's look for Infamous 2 after fans complained. And how Obsidian ret-conned the Neverwinter Nights 2 ending with its expansions after the original ending was so bad and hated it is now THE go-to ending when describing bad endings.(rocks fall, everyone dies). And when Bethesda did Broken Steel which let you play after the main story because fans complained they couldn't play after the final cut-scene.

But I guess those don't count, for some reason.

Or how Bioware themselves changed one of their books because of fan outcry. This was only a couple weeks ago and nobody seems to remember!

The company has a history of fixing things the fans don't like. There's GOT to be some reason they're reluctant to take us seriously when it comes to the single most important part of the entire series. Maybe they actually do have something planned to continue the story, or maybe, if this rumor is correct, Casey and Mac are just too proud of their ending to let the filthy fans tarnish their work.

 

[Yeager942]

Bioware claims that this story is fake. So take it with a handful of salt.