Mass Effect 3: Casey Hudson's Largest FUBAR

[Darkcerb]

(snip)

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Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.

This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

And what makes it more hilarious is the artistic integrity angle, when the endingtron 9000 is involved can you really call it artistic? is an ending for an interactive medium that doesn't change (besides opening two more colors) really artistic if it doesn't take the players actions into account?

Can you really stand up for a bunch of "artists" who can't give there own views on there work without a permission slip from big brother? (a permission slip they'll never get)

And fatally and arguably are they even "artists"? I personally think their are artists for every form of media but do I think whoever was involved with the endings we got qualify?

No they seem to have forgotten what medium they were working with I'm not even sure what they were going for? vague plot hole ridden mess I guess.

And don't even get me started on the "You just want a happy ending!" argument, I'll start frothing at the mouth...talk about missing the point.

 

[Darkcerb]

A catalyst isn't an agent of change, it meerly enhances/speeds up an already occuring reaction.

I was more indicating in this context it's treated as such. Because taken literally it makes even less sense.

And there was supposed to be a comma in there, sheperd is the catalyst, ^and the agent of change.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

EA: Here's what's gonna happen Casey, you and Mac are gonna take control of this thing and end it.

Casey: Why?

EA: Well, see... if we put the ending in your and Mac Daddies hands instead of giving the fans what they were promised, they'll will rise up en mass and demand something new and then we'll be able to give them just that.

Casey: Or... we could just give them-

EA: No... the plans have been set in motion.

thats unfair.

the reapers somewhat had a point!

Nice picture, made me giggle a bit.

Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?

God I'm getting sick of this. The "Yo dawg" scenario that everyone so fondly brings up is completely untrue and misleading. The Catalyst didn't "create synthetics to kill organics, so that the organics won't create synthetics to kill organics". It created the Reapers to kill only the highest civilizations, in order to prevent their synthetics from wiping out everything.
And even if we forget that, there's still the whole other half of their reasoning. They don't do it simply to prevent synthetics turning on them. They do it to remove the top-dog in the galaxy, so that other species will have the chance to be uplifted, and have their shot.
Say what you will about the ending being unsatisfactory, there is nothing about this bit of it that deserves the amount of ridicule that it gets.

Except that alot of us have a fleet of quarians and geth that the god child pretends doesn't exist. Catalyst my foot, sheperd is the catalyst he/she is the agent of change tzeentch would be proud.

Seconded. My Femshep should've been able to say, "Look, the Geth had a dozen chances and every reason in the world to wipe out the Quarians, but they didn't--and now the two of them are going to rebuild Rannoch together. My ship's computer is literally in love with my pilot. 'Organics and synthetics cannot coexist'? Bullshit. And even if they can't coexist, that still doesn't justify millions of years of genocide. So thanks for your concern, but I didn't come all this way just to start jumping through your hoops now. I think I'll just sit here and cheer on my allies--organics and synthetics alike--while they blow your Reapers straight to hell."

...or something like that.

 

[anthony87]

(snip)

(additional snip)

Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.

This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

And what makes it more hilarious is the artistic integrity angle, when the endingtron 9000 is involved can you really call it artistic? is an ending for an interactive medium that doesn't change (besides opening two more colors) really artistic if it doesn't take the players actions into account?

Can you really stand up for a bunch of "artists" who can't give there own views on there work without a permission slip from big brother? (a permission slip they'll never get)

And fatally and arguably are they even "artists"? I personally think their are artists for every form of media but do I think whoever was involved with the endings we got qualify?

No they seem to have forgotten what medium they were working with I'm not even sure what they were going for? vague plot hole ridden mess I guess.

And don't even get me started on the "You just want a happy ending!" argument, I'll start frothing at the mouth...talk about missing the point.

Next time someone pulls out that fucking "artistic integrity" nonsense I'm just gonna reply with this:

"No one with any artistic integrity would have let that absolute debacle of an ending be released. No one. The ending was so inexcusable on so many levels, that I can?t help but laugh at people?s attempts to defend it by calling it art. As if Art were not subject to ridicule and criticism."

This is the article I pulled the quote from. It's a pretty damn good read, I just wish more people could see it.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

And what makes it more hilarious is the artistic integrity angle, when the endingtron 9000 is involved can you really call it artistic? is an ending for an interactive medium that doesn't change (besides opening two more colors) really artistic if it doesn't take the players actions into account?

Can you really stand up for a bunch of "artists" who can't give there own views on there work without a permission slip from big brother? (a permission slip they'll never get)

And fatally and arguably are they even "artists"? I personally think their are artists for every form of media but do I think whoever was involved with the endings we got qualify?

No they seem to have forgotten what medium they were working with I'm not even sure what they were going for? vague plot hole ridden mess I guess.

And don't even get me started on the "You just want a happy ending!" argument, I'll start frothing at the mouth...talk about missing the point.

Here's another question I'd really love an answer to: how much artistic integrity could Hudson and Walters really have, anyway, given that they basically copied the final Control/Destroy/Merge choice from the original Deus Ex?

(Captcha: "face the music." How appropriate.)

 

[The Pinray]

One huge problem I have with the Mass Effect series is Cerberus. They go from a former Alliance Black Ops group gone rogue to a huge interstellar organization that is so well funded and staffed that they can have secret operatives everywhere and can fund and control an entire army during a Reaper invasion that has most galactic supply lines cut and everyone stretched to their limit.

Hell, the Alliance can barely hold Earth, and the Turian Empire lost Palaven even with the help of the GODDAMN KROGAN... Yet I'm expected to believe that Cerberus can mount a force strong enough to nearly take over the freakin' Citadel? I call bull.

That was a bit off topic... I think we shouldn't start playing the blame game. As the article says, it's unsure as the the legitimacy of the statement.

 

[Monster_user]

EA: Here's what's gonna happen Casey, you and Mac are gonna take control of this thing and end it.

Casey: Why?

EA: Well, see... if we put the ending in your and Mac Daddies hands instead of giving the fans what they were promised, they'll will rise up en mass and demand something new and then we'll be able to give them just that.

Casey: Or... we could just give them-

EA: No... the plans have been set in motion.

thats unfair.

the reapers somewhat had a point!

Nice picture, made me giggle a bit.

Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?

God I'm getting sick of this. The "Yo dawg" scenario that everyone so fondly brings up is completely untrue and misleading. The Catalyst didn't "create synthetics to kill organics, so that the organics won't create synthetics to kill organics". It created the Reapers to kill only the highest civilizations, in order to prevent their synthetics from wiping out everything.
And even if we forget that, there's still the whole other half of their reasoning. They don't do it simply to prevent synthetics turning on them. They do it to remove the top-dog in the galaxy, so that other species will have the chance to be uplifted, and have their shot.
Say what you will about the ending being unsatisfactory, there is nothing about this bit of it that deserves the amount of ridicule that it gets.

Except that alot of us have a fleet of quarians and geth that the god child pretends doesn't exist. Catalyst my foot, sheperd is the catalyst he/she is the agent of change tzeentch would be proud.

Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.

 

[Gigatoast]

snip

Those are certainly nice theories but they do not excuse the drastic shift in tone the game takes, even if this was the theme Bioware has been trying to allude to over the past 5 years the execution was so hamfistedly botched the concept was rendered irrelevant. Pretty much every idea you have is pure speculation extended to the point where the source material no longer resembles the theme that was ultimately created by you, not by Casey or anyone else at Bioware.

This is exactly what they wanted, and it is exactly what the problem is. Remember that damning phrase written on a piece of notebook paper outlining the concept for the ending? It read "Lots of speculation from everyone!", they created an intentionally undernourished ending with the hope that players would draw their own conclusions they way you have, and they'll be revered by sci-fi nerds for years to come. This was Casey's "vision" for the series and that's what led to its downfall.

Now, there is no real problem with this concept alone. Many fantastic sci-fi stories end this way and for them it works. But it does not, I repeat, does not belong in this series. This isn't Blade Runner, this isn't Dune, this is Mass Effect. It has it's own established themes and it's own priorities when it comes to story telling, it's about drawing the player into a fully realized sci-fi setting and letting them establish relationships with the game's incredibly well fleshed out characters, that's what Bioware's writers where focusing on and that's what they're best at. It was never an exploration of the nature of life and creation, at least if that was the intention then I can safely say they failed to convey that theme spectacularly.

I'll say you do know some pretty impressive philosophical concepts, I'd love to see you have this discussion with the man who wrote that thread. I'm sure he'd be willing to talk to you about it, he's much better qualified then I.

 

[Cranky]

Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.

Same here. And if Shep was a catalyst, he/she would not have changed in the entire process.

 

[AbstractStream]

If this is true (I'm skeptical about everything ME related now), this brings me some peace of mind. Tsk, oh Casey...

 

[chadachada123]

From the Article:

The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that the ending to Mass Effect 3 could be a textbook case of "Viewers Are Geniuses [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreGeniuses]"; especially when you consider that they were also deliberately going for a divisive and thought-provoking conclusion. They did just that, quite successfully I would say.

... Unfortunately, it seems someone forgot to mention that an ending which is too sophisticated is even worse than one which isn't sophisticated enough in the eyes of the average person.

That would be fine if the ending was sophisticated at all. It seemed more like it was written by the schizophrenic guy down the street from me who is convinced that aliens are invading his mind through fluorine-"infected" water.

 

[Fleetfiend]

*Comes to thread because friend's DnD character is named Fubar*

*Leaves because it's just another ME3 ending thread*

 

[Warachia]

So Casey Hudson ended up assuming direct control.

Sorry.

 

[80Maxwell08]

(snip)

(additional snip)

Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.

This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?

Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.

Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.

 

[80Maxwell08]

(snip)

(additional snip)

Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.

This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?

Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.

Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.

What makes it so crappy is that Shamus is the only person from the other side that even makes an effort to say "okay I know where you guys are comming from, I even sympathise, but this is what I think." From everyone else it's just a mound of "Stop you're whining you entitled brat!"On that note, I hope the avengers movie has the worst ending in cinima since the Star Wars prequels so that When Moviebob starts whining I can call him out in the comments section.

I honestly think there's some mass corruption going on here between all of the ads for ME3 on roughly every website in existence and not one website until recently saying that they didn't like the ME3 ending. The one that when Bioware had a poll of people's thoughts on the ending over 90% said they didn't like the ending. Then we get into huge companies also owning gaming websites and developers but never speaking of the conflict of interest. If I remember correctly there was the person from IGN who gave DA2 a great review score there and then got a job at Bioware. Yeah that doesn't look even remotely seedy.

 

[Mr Goostoff]

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Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.

That is absolutely untrue! The Reapers do not wipe out all organic life, and the fact that you're arguing that they do just proves how unqualified you are to be arguing this.
It is stated in the game that the Protheans were studying the evolution of humanity from Mars, and the timeline would support this (the Protheans were wiped out 50,000 years ago, when primitive humans existed). That proves exactly what I said, and disproves what you said.
The Reapers wiping out the Protheans meant the end of the Protheans, NOT the end of humanity.
And humans went on to become the new dominant species, which shows that what they intended to do (allow other species to rise up) happens, and works.
Now please, know what you're talking about before trying.
And for the record, I too believe in the indoctrination/dream theory.

 

[Infernai]

*sigh* It's at moments like this i wish that they'd just gone with their original idea for one of the alternate endings.


OT: Ok, so i can definitely see what's wrong with the endings and the fact that it seemed to have been the result of a communications block (I would call it breakdown but..no, this is literally a block) on the part of two of the writers doesn't surprise me. Anyone else feel a bit of dejavu over all this to the Kotor 2 ending situation minus the 'time constraints' problem?

 

[SageRuffin]

Personally, I might (and I cannot emphasize that "might" strongly enough) have been willing to accept the Star Child scene, but if the Reapers absolutely had to go from "incomprehensible Lovecraftian horrors from beyond space and time" to "we turn organics into organic-killing synthetics to stop organics from creating organic-killing synthetics," then that crap had to get a lot more explanation. They'd also have to explain why, if the thing that made the Reapers has been living in the Citadel the whole time, Sovereign's role in ME1 was even necessary.

As for the ending, I still kind of think something like this [http://social.bioware.com/poll.php?user=1183972&poll_id=29101] would be the simplest way to fix it.

(And seriously, Bioware needs to fire whoever's responsible for this travesty.)

I mostly agree, though I never liked the "incomprehensible alien abomination" angle some stories took as, to me, it leaves a giant gaping maw the size of the Mariana Trench. That's how I've always saw the Reapers: plot devices with bizarre designs and awesome voices.

And to be honest, I'm more upset at how the whole "Galactic Readiness" factors into the campaign when, within the context of said campaign, it doesn't. From what I could tell, there's no point whatsoever on rallying up all those assets. It'd make more sense if that had a direct impact on the progress of a certain device (e.g. more assets means it gets done faster, resulting in not having to do as many side missions); as it stands, it's just seems randomly thrown in and poorly cross-referenced in an effort to give it relevance. And if anyone else is reading this, yes, I did try the multiplayer mode and frankly, I was not impressed.

So yeah, some parts of the ending if not the entire series are poorly written (the aforementioned Reapers), but I don't think the ending is as blasphemous as most fans make it seem; I've come across far worse endings from games that sat very firm on either end of the quality spectrum. Then again, I only invested so much interest into the series, exacerbated by the fact that my FemShep was "ported" from a universe of my own making, so most of the events in-game she wouldn't have handled in that fashion anyway (if only because you can't make Shep say "fuck" and punch people at will).

Besides, worst case scenario I can just make some shit up myself, right? Like my FemShep and Sam (Traynor) in a lavish apartment on Illium, basking in the warmth of a quiet sunset and each other, for example.

P.S.: That got pretty long-winded. Sorry about that.

 

[Darkcerb]

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Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.

That is absolutely untrue! The Reapers do not wipe out all organic life, and the fact that you're arguing that they do just proves how unqualified you are to be arguing this.
It is stated in the game that the Protheans were studying the evolution of humanity from Mars, and the timeline would support this (the Protheans were wiped out 50,000 years ago, when primitive humans existed). That proves exactly what I said, and disproves what you said.
The Reapers wiping out the Protheans meant the end of the Protheans, NOT the end of humanity.
And humans went on to become the new dominant species, which shows that what they intended to do (allow other species to rise up) happens, and works.
Now please, know what you're talking about before trying.
And for the record, I too believe in the indoctrination/dream theory.

And now they're back to wipe us all out to stop us from wiping ourselves out.

The logic is made even more false when you have either the geth and quarians in fleet or even just the geth fighting alongside the alliance. And the most annoying part is shep becomes such an apathetic puppet to this literal deus ex machina that he doesn't even call the glowstick on it.

And the most ridiculous part of it all is the reapers themselves go out of there way throughout the series to instigate war between synthetics and organics. Their argument is so weak they have to make sure each cycle works out in there favor.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

(snip)

(additional snip)

Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.

This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?

Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.

Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.

What makes it so crappy is that Shamus is the only person from the other side that even makes an effort to say "okay I know where you guys are comming from, I even sympathise, but this is what I think." From everyone else it's just a mound of "Stop you're whining you entitled brat!"On that note, I hope the avengers movie has the worst ending in cinima since the Star Wars prequels so that When Moviebob starts whining I can call him out in the comments section.

I honestly think there's some mass corruption going on here between all of the ads for ME3 on roughly every website in existence and not one website until recently saying that they didn't like the ME3 ending. The one that when Bioware had a poll of people's thoughts on the ending over 90% said they didn't like the ending. Then we get into huge companies also owning gaming websites and developers but never speaking of the conflict of interest. If I remember correctly there was the person from IGN who gave DA2 a great review score there and then got a job at Bioware. Yeah that doesn't look even remotely seedy.

And nowhere does this show more clearly (For me anyway) Than the zero punctuation review. So the guy who practically etched a name for himself by overexaggerating flaws in games has only one thing to say about the ME 3 ending: "It could have been worse." Yeah, that's true, but then so could have the Hindenburg crash.

On a point of defense for Zero-Puntcuation... he pretty much shat on the game as a whole rather than focusing on the ending, which is pretty much what he does with every game. Also, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who - especially as a critic playing games at a breakneck pace to review them weekly - gets emotionally invested enough in his characters to really feel the impact of the ending like a non-professional player would. I think it is to his credit that he neither mocked people who didn't care for the ending nor attempted to pretend he actually cared enough about the ending to be upset about it personally.