Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

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MrSuperman

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Why are people moaning about a downer ending? I'm happy there's an actual downer ending. It beats the usual romp of Hollywood and other industry giants just giving deus ex machina endings or having a happy ending when really, there shouldn't be. At least Bioware isn't stuck to outside rules in having to change things to make the majority happy like with 'Terminator: Salvation'.
 

Vegosiux

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MrSuperman said:
Why are people moaning about a downer ending? I'm happy there's an actual downer ending. It beats the usual romp of Hollywood and other industry giants just giving deus ex machina endings or having a happy ending when really, there shouldn't be. At least Bioware isn't stuck to outside rules in having to change things to make the majority happy like with 'Terminator: Salvation'.
From what I gather, the complaints aren't about the endings being downers, but about them being contrived and bordering on ass pull/diabolus ex machina. As I said somewhere before, from what I've seen of the game so far, BW tried hard to make it "dark, gritty and edgy". Maybe too hard. People seem to be complaining mostly about the lack of closure.

Well, guess they'll just have to throw money on the ME MMO for that, huh!
 

ifihadashotgun

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MrSuperman said:
Why are people moaning about a downer ending? I'm happy there's an actual downer ending. It beats the usual romp of Hollywood and other industry giants just giving deus ex machina endings or having a happy ending when really, there shouldn't be. At least Bioware isn't stuck to outside rules in having to change things to make the majority happy like with 'Terminator: Salvation'.
The problem isn't that it's a downer ending. It's that the villains make no fucking sense, all three endings are essentially the same in terms of the consequences, and the choices you made during all three games really don't matter.
 

feeqmatic

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Combine Rustler said:
Really? "Downer ending" does not necessarily equal bad writing. The writing might be bad, and the ending might be a downer, but the two do not correlate necessarily. Personally, I'm glad the ME series didn't have a happy ending - because there is absolutely no fucking way things could possibly end happily if we're trying to be even remotely realistic.
So there. My two cents. Maybe I'm just a misguided crazy bastard suffering from Huntington's or some such shit.
Here is the problem. Bioware in every game up until now has allowed the players to choose their path and by proxy their ending. In KOTOR you go darkside or light side. In DAO you do countless things to affect the aftermath of your land, and so on. I played through the game as a goody good we are the world hippie paragon because i wanted to save the galaxy. That was the story i wanted and the ending I actively sought. Then i would have chosen another play through where im not so good and the galaxy goes un saved, or where im really bad and i control the reapers, or some other options in between.

If Bioware wanted to tell a bitter sweet story about the entire galaxy ending as we know it (in mass effects universe of course) then they should not have given us a choice. They should not have given us a character driven story where we would become attatched and invested in the story over different ways only to yank that control from us.

For me the pinnacle of the story and the point where i almost shed tears is where Legion refers to himself as "I" instead of "we". That was going to go down as one of the greatest moments in gaming history in my book. It was powerful, deep, and downright inspiring. And everything that led to that point was perfectly woven. I fought a god damn reaper solo essentially to make it happen. However all of that work is voided by the decisions i make at the end. The synergy decision maybe keeps it, but it still costs us the galactic relays which completely alters the reality of the galaxy as a whole. So it still keeps the get from pursuing their own destiny.

So even if there were no plot holes or vaguely motivated villains, ambiguous aftermath etc, the game would still have failed as a game of choices because your choices dont add up to what you were trying to attain in most situations.

Worst of all, it makes me NOT WANT TO PLAY THE GAME AGAIN. I know that i will not get much different out of the experience because all of the endings are unacceptable.
 

Patrick Woodworth

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I'm not sure if these work, so if they don't, please don't yell at me. lol But, this might interest some people. Warning: Spoilers.

http://www.justpushstart.com/2012/03/mass-effect-3-endings-guide/
 

Quesa

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I went from hard core <3 of BioWare to hard core </3 after DA2, and even with all of the stuff that pissed me off about the direction of the plot from ME to ME2 and then into ME3, I was okay with the explanation of the cycle and the reasons for why it existed and the method for stopping it. Still, I hate the ending from nearly every angle imaginable.

A) The setup. I don't care if the Reapers were designed to be eventually bested as a failsafe for if the cycle were ever found to be unnecessary, there's no way I can step myself down from 'The Reapers are this wholly unstoppable force of destruction' to 'You can run an effective partisan campaign against them like they're the Nazis occupying France, and even sit in one of the least clandestine sniping spots in the history of civilization for three days actively fighting the enemy without drawing any attention to yourself.' Or that they would walk around like unwieldy crabs while getting destroyed by SINGLE ORGANIC LIFEFORMS or orbital bombardment without reacting remotely appropriately.

B) The shoehorn. I watched this idiot plow through his game in the most horrific fashion. Failure, death, quest skipping, then launching the final mission as soon as it became available. When he went down finally, I thought 'Well, I could see that coming a mile away." Then of course, like it was the ending of a MW game, in a drunken stupor, Shepard gets up and finishes it. Which is apparently how it goes no matter how you perform in the game leading up to that point.

C) The exposition. Not the conduit, the conversation before that. They tried to make IM the focal point in 2, which is just baffling to me; a galaxy obliterating threat isn't interesting enough, there's got to be a guy who pisses in baby carriages and wants to rule the galaxy while teabagging it from low earth orbit? I found IM annoying in 2 (as I did the working for Cerberus stuff), but in 3 it's just inane.

D) The setup. I do not fault them for a second for wanting to sever as many connections to images and actors established in the trilogy in order to move forward. Horrible writing and decision making aside, they have established a robust universe that deserves more games, and shouldn't be bound to deliver seventeen characters that may or may not exist. Regardless, the crash landing and the 'let me tell you a story' bits just feel awful. What the hell did I even listen to, Joker and Yeoman Rand's grandchild telling his grandchild about why they're stranded there? It felt lazy, it felt cheap, and that's coming from someone who would have been happy with a splash screen with text as a summary.
 

boag

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Texas Joker 52 said:
Like a lot of the posts I've seen here, the only really bad part seems to be the endings, which were overwhelmingly depressing and made me feel like the majority of the game was spent preparing for war, only to have it wasted.

I got the Turians and Krogan to work together, managed to wrangle the Asari and Salarians on my side, not to mention assets from the Batarians, Hanar, Elcor, Volus, and Drell, the Terminus Forces are on my side and I didn't have to do too much that was stepping out of my Paragon leanings. Then I prepared the Citadel for attack, and got the Quarians and Geth to get along. Even with the 'Good' Ending where you can destroy all synthetics, EDI and the Geth are screwed. Synthesis seemed too vague for me, and I wasn't willing to stoop so low as to control the Reapers.

Personally, I am only a little upset that Shepard ends up dead no matter what, but galactic change on that scale? How can they make any more Mass Effect games that feel like Mass Effect still? Either the Geth are gone entirely, the Reapers are around still and possibly even messing around with everything, or everyone is fused to some sort of machine. That, along with the loss of all the Mass Relays and the Citadel? I'd love to see how Bioware reconciles this.

Don't get me wrong, I love the ending, but I would definitely have preferred an ending similar to Mass Effect 2's, only more intense and grander in scale. This... Just makes me sad, disappointed, and feel like Shepard went through all of that for nothing.

[EDIT]: After having started my Fem-Shep play-through, I think I realized the key to why the endings were so dissatisfying: They don't feel like they belong in Mass Effect. That, along with the dreams with the kid in the forest felt out-of-place.
They feel like something From a Final Fantasy game.


This is hilarious, notice how it says X event is very important to the game end scenario and when the choices and events are listed every end game scenarios has more in common than anything. And worse yet the Galaxy changing event doesnt even change.
 

Valok

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Well, I don't agree with the end(s), but I'm not gonna comment on it since a lot of ppl have already showed what seems wrong.

So I guess I will just drop this here...

http://filesmelt.com/dl/Big_list_of_copy.jpg
 

Eddie the head

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MrSuperman said:
Why are people moaning about a downer ending? I'm happy there's an actual downer ending. It beats the usual romp of Hollywood and other industry giants just giving deus ex machina endings or having a happy ending when really, there shouldn't be. At least Bioware isn't stuck to outside rules in having to change things to make the majority happy like with 'Terminator: Salvation'.
It's how they did it. I loved Infamous 2 (Good) ending because you died. It's just how they did it there is no sense of closure I guess. I was going to replay ME2 to see what happens if a few people die, but now I am not going to.
 

teknoarcanist

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synobal said:
teknoarcanist said:
This Matrix Architect starchild bullshit is a slap in the face. Besides being immature, poorly-written, would-be-tragedy; besides being vague, alienating, impenetrable, and unsatisfying; besides all that, it invalidates every choice you've ever made throughout all three games. It renders every decision moot.

And we all know the reason.

It's railroading shit together to set up for DLC, an MMO, or both.

No it wasn't, you should really look a bit deeper into the ending. It wasn't dropped out of no where, there was a lot of subtle hints in regards to how the game was going to end and the choice you would have to make.

I think perhaps Bioware are suffering a bit from their own success, back in the day they use to only hit a very small target audience of people who seriously enjoyed RPGs and fantasy/scifi literature.

But Mass Effect really did a good job of crossing and blending the genre lines and so we have this Massive influx of people who are not well versed in story telling.

Please resist your knee jerk reaction to the endings people and look a bit deeper, maybe read some really good science fiction works and then come back and really look at the Mass Effect story across all three games. I think you'll find it was really very well done in the end.

Also: all those militaries stranded in Earth orbit with FTL travel? Yeah they're going to fucking destroy one other, vying for land and resources. I give it a few decades before the Krogan have wiped everybody else out and resort to cannibalism to offset overpopulation.
We really don't know that anyone was stuck on earth or that those fleets didn't get away. I know it is tempting to assume that the cut scene showed the crucible going off in real time but we don't know that for sure after all the Normandy got away and they apparently had time to pick up your squad mates off earth for extraction.

Oh and the Krogan didn't bring their females to earth, they are to precious to risk losing still.
It was NOT well-done. I'm not even complaining about the substantive material of the ending. I have no problem making difficult, seemingly-impossible ethical choices; in fact it's why I play these games at all. I don't care that it's not happy; I LIKE unhappy endings. Tragedies are my favorite kind of story.

What I have a problem with is the fact that it was poorly-written, ill-conceived, haphazardly presented bullshit. The ending didn't leave me emotionally exhausted, it left me going, "Wait.......what? That's it? It's just over? That was fucking stupid." It provides no sense of closure. No sense of finality. No understanding of the broader implications of the decision you've just made. I barely have any idea what even happened.

An all-powerful secret badguy who's more powerful than all the other badguys and was never mentioned before showing up in the last five minutes to dump exposition and force a false dichotomy on you is not good writing. It's very, very bad writing. It wasn't deep, or moving. It doesn't stand alongside Dhalgren as a postmodern science fiction dilemma that makes me question the very nature of reality. It's just idiotic, nonsensical, and badly written.

It's also tonally inconsistent -- it felt more like Deus Ex than Mass Effect. Why has Shepard spent the entire game marshaling forces to battle the reapers, only to go "Oh okay" and submit in the last five minutes? Shepard from Mass Effect 1 and 2 would have told that kid to shut the fuck up, pointed to the united armada above him, and delivered a stirring speech about how we're all working together and that proves the cycle wrong. And then he would have blown the whole damn Crucible the fuck up, and it would have worked out for him.

It even fails thematically. Mass Effect isn't ABOUT the conflict between organic and synthetic life! It never has been! That's a VERY small part of it, with the Quarians and the Geth, but the themes of Mass Effect are and always have been the scars of war, the disparity between foreign cultures, the anger bred from ignorance, the thin line between right and wrong, the difficult decisions that arise when dealing with war on a galactic scale -- that "ruthless calculus" Garrus was talking about. Again, it felt more like Deus Ex than Mass Effect. It was entirely out-of-place.

Mass Effect is a rollicking space opera. It didn't need a 2001 -style "sudden left turn" in the last five minutes. It needed a stirring finish. It failed to achieve that. And considering that the hours preceding it -- the siege on London, the last push to the beam, the choked goodbyes of all your former squadmates -- are some of the most dire, emotionally-fraught emotional peaks in gaming history, the ending fails to render that peak into a corresponding valley, or slowly bring us down from the gut-wrenching finality to tie things off with a bow. It just jumps off a cliff. You look at the last hour of Return of the King for an ensemble epic resolutely concluded. You look at the last five minutes of Matrix Revolutions for a similarly misguided cop-out.

And I'll reiterate that the rest of the game was absolutely pitch-perfect. Everything right up until Hackett tells you the Crucible isn't working and you get raised up on that platform was absolutely fantastic, emotionally-stirring, heartstring-tugging, thought-provoking stuff. It's amazing how they could possibly have dropped the ball so hard so close to the end.

Not sad or upsetting. Not powerful or thought-provoking. Not even interesting.

Weak, lazy, and disappointing.

Hackett out.
 

mehh1293

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I'm with the majority of people on this thread, the ending was a horrible failure, and successfully managed to ruin a wonderful franchise in little more than 2 minutes. But I think there may be a bit of hope. Anyone else noticed how all the videos of ME3 endings posted on youtube are quickly being made private? Not just individual videos posted by fans, but the ones sponsored by big gaming sites such as IGN as well. Hopefully this is a sign that bioware has gotten the message and has begun trying to clean up the terrible mess they've made.
 

SajuukKhar

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Valok said:
Well, I don't agree with the end(s), but I'm not gonna comment on it since a lot of ppl have already showed what seems wrong.

So I guess I will just drop this here...

http://filesmelt.com/dl/Big_list_of_copy.jpg
The reason why the "ME3 copied Tengen Toppa" doesn't work is because

1. Tengen Toppa didn't make up that plot, saying ME copied TTGL is like saying RAGE is a copy of Fallout. Just because TTGL is popular doesn't mean it was the first to use that story/ending type.

2. The anti-Spirals in TTGL wanted to kill all spiral life, PERMANENTLY, The Reapers only want to kill advanced life so future life can live. Two entirely different reasons, and methods of execution of those reasons.

mehh1293 said:
I'm with the majority of people on this thread, the ending was a horrible failure, and successfully managed to ruin a wonderful franchise in little more than 2 minutes. But I think there may be a bit of hope. Anyone else noticed how all the videos of ME3 endings posted on youtube are quickly being made private? Not just individual videos posted by fans, but the ones sponsored by big gaming sites such as IGN as well. Hopefully this is a sign that bioware has gotten the message and has begun trying to clean up the terrible mess they've made.
The only 'mess" Bioware made was releasing a game to a bunch of people who don't understand what the series was about, or what its themes were.

everyone I know who actually payed attention in the series has liked the endings.
 

Fappy

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SajuukKhar said:
Valok said:
Well, I don't agree with the end(s), but I'm not gonna comment on it since a lot of ppl have already showed what seems wrong.

So I guess I will just drop this here...

http://filesmelt.com/dl/Big_list_of_copy.jpg
The reason why the "ME3 copied Tengen Toppa" doesn't work is because

1. Tengen Toppa didn't make up that plot, saying ME copied TTGL is like saying RAGE is a copy of Fallout. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it was the first to use it.

2. The anti-Spirals in TTGL wanted to kill all spiral life, PERMANENTLY, The Reapers only want to kill advanced life so future life can live. Two entirely different reasons, and methods of execution of those reasons.

mehh1293 said:
I'm with the majority of people on this thread, the ending was a horrible failure, and successfully managed to ruin a wonderful franchise in little more than 2 minutes. But I think there may be a bit of hope. Anyone else noticed how all the videos of ME3 endings posted on youtube are quickly being made private? Not just individual videos posted by fans, but the ones sponsored by big gaming sites such as IGN as well. Hopefully this is a sign that bioware has gotten the message and has begun trying to clean up the terrible mess they've made.
The only 'mess" Bioware made was releasing a game to a bunch of people who don't understand what the series was about, or what its themes were.

everyone I know who actually payed attention in the series has liked the endings.
I honestly like the concept of destroying the Reaper's technology to create your own path. I see how that theme was laid out throughout the entirety of the franchise. The problem is that, in the end, none of your prior decisions matter, your enemy tells you what to do and you can't even attempt to argue his flawed points. Good idea. Poorly executed.
 

SajuukKhar

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Fappy said:
I honestly like the concept of destroying the Reaper's technology to create your own path. I see how that theme was laid out throughout the entirety of the franchise. The problem is that, in the end, none of your prior decisions matter, your enemy tells you what to do and you can't even attempt to argue his flawed points. Good idea. Poorly executed.
Yes because

-Letting the Rachnai live or not
-curing the genophage
-Killing the geth/quarrians or making peace with them

is negated by the ending?

That was a trick question, because they aren't.
 

teknoarcanist

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Fappy said:
The problem is that, in the end, none of your prior decisions matter, your enemy tells you what to do and you can't even attempt to argue his flawed points. Good idea. Poorly executed.
Agreed. As I said above, you spend three games telling Elder Gods and Space Racists to shove their false dichotomies and work together, and then in the last five minutes you go "My only options are genocide or a dark age? DAAAAAAAAAAAAA OKAY, WHATEBBA YOU SAY MISTER GUARDIAN SIR"

Shepard from Mass Effect 1 and 2 would have told that kid to shut the fuck up, pointed to the united armada above him, and delivered a stirring speech about how we're all working together and that proves the cycle wrong. And then he would have blown the whole damn Crucible the fuck up. And it would have worked out somehow.

It makes no sense to remove that agency from the player. There should have been a fourth choice which engages if you refuse to choose, or if -- as was the case with me -- your response was to turn around and fire angrily at The Guardian.

SajuukKhar said:
Fappy said:
I honestly like the concept of destroying the Reaper's technology to create your own path. I see how that theme was laid out throughout the entirety of the franchise. The problem is that, in the end, none of your prior decisions matter, your enemy tells you what to do and you can't even attempt to argue his flawed points. Good idea. Poorly executed.
Yes because

-Letting the Rachnai live or not
-curing the genophage
-Killing the geth/quarrians or making peace with them

is negated by the ending?

That was a trick question, because they aren't.
Well yeah, they ARE negated by the ending because they don't factor into it in any way.
 

SajuukKhar

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teknoarcanist said:
Agreed. As I said above, you spend three games telling Elder Gods and Space Racists to shove their false dichotomies and work together, and then in the last five minutes you go "My only options are genocide or a dark age? DAAAAAAAAAAAAA OKAY."

Shepard from Mass Effect 1 and 2 would have told that kid to shut the fuck up, pointed to the united armada above him, and delivered a stirring speech about how we're all working together and that proves the cycle wrong. And then he would have blown the whole damn Crucible the fuck up. And it would have worked out somehow.

It makes no sense to remove that agency from the player. There should have been a fourth choice which engages if you refuse to choose, or if -- as was the case with me -- your response was to turn around and fire angrily at The Guardian.
Except that ending doesn't free galactic civilization from the endless technological and socetal enslavement because of their dependance on Reaper tech.

Your ending makes zero sense with the story and doesn't solve the biggest problem in the series.
 

teknoarcanist

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SajuukKhar said:
teknoarcanist said:
Fappy said:
SajuukKhar said:
The problem is that, in the end, none of your prior decisions matter, your enemy tells you what to do and you can't even attempt to argue his flawed points. Good idea. Poorly executed.
Agreed. As I said above, you spend three games telling Elder Gods and Space Racists to shove their false dichotomies and work together, and then in the last five minutes you go "My only options are genocide or a dark age? DAAAAAAAAAAAAA OKAY."

Shepard from Mass Effect 1 and 2 would have told that kid to shut the fuck up, pointed to the united armada above him, and delivered a stirring speech about how we're all working together and that proves the cycle wrong. And then he would have blown the whole damn Crucible the fuck up. And it would have worked out somehow.

It makes no sense to remove that agency from the player. There should have been a fourth choice which engages if you refuse to choose, or if -- as was the case with me -- your response was to turn around and fire angrily at The Guardian.
Except that ending still doesn't free galactic civilization from the endless technological and socetal enslavement because of their dependance on Reaper tech.
Sure it does. They've broken free from the cycle of technocratic violence and come together as brothers, fighting to survive. That what I just spent 30+ hours doing.
 

N7 Ruiz

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First I think Bioware got a little too kill happy in this game with Characters i will say this Halo 3 had a better ending and that game you are playing a man who says less than a page in dialog...thats sad. And what is with that kid its like shepard was a pedophile. Look this is like the episode I of star wars in the mass effect series you could not fuck it up and yet they had to be omg im original. look its a good game its just the most horrible ending ever like BSG ending and if you like it your a moromon. Killing off characters that we know are going to die thats ok Klling off characters for the sake of shock factor no that not rainbow sprinkles in my book. and that cut scene with the old man so what Mass effect is a childrens tale its like when ST DS-9 introduced Benny (sisko) in the 1950's (they were going to make DS-9 and I guess all of star trek a story stuck in a writers head) The point that im trying to make is this IT was not the ending we deserived and why does shepard have too die in all the endings its so terrible and its retarded its like We will make our players Cry how out of sadness that we are special and not in a good way

PS. Now Mass Effect has become literally 40K
 

Fappy

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SajuukKhar said:
Fappy said:
I honestly like the concept of destroying the Reaper's technology to create your own path. I see how that theme was laid out throughout the entirety of the franchise. The problem is that, in the end, none of your prior decisions matter, your enemy tells you what to do and you can't even attempt to argue his flawed points. Good idea. Poorly executed.
Yes because

-Letting the Rachnai live or not
-curing the genophage
-Killing the geth/quarrians or making peace with them

is negated by the ending?

That was a trick question, because they aren't.
Actually the Rachni thing is rendered completely moot because there is a Rachni Queen in ME3 despite whether you saved it on Noveria or not. The difference is like two lines of dialogue. The destroy ending invalidates the entire second act of the game. The sythesis ending comes out of fucking nowhere and addresses a problem already solved in act 2 (Quarian/Geth) while also invalidating their alliance. With the galactic community gone there is no point in making peace between these groups (Krogan/Salarian and Turians) if they can't even communicate with each other. Mordin said the Korgans would evolve out of the genophage... as they had already begun to do. If they are severed from the rest of the galaxy then they would ultimately adapt to the genophage naturally. The list of plotholes/meaningless decisions and such goes on...