Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is not victory.

[370999]

Yes because admitting several times how much they fucked up on Da2 is not admitting to their mistakes?

Can I ask where please?

It is a very poor solution to the problem but I think this is the best we are going to get. Which is a shame as, IMHO, 20 years from now when people are talking about the Mass effect series, they are always going to mention the horrible, horrible ending.

But meh, who knows, the ending could be great. I really doubt that but whatever.

EDIT: God I'm stupid.

 

[IamGamer41]

They did not learn from it though, did they.They still rushed out another game, full of bugs and incoherent plot-lines.

They still made another game where they promised X, Y and Z and did not deliver them.

And actually, from my experience on the Bioware forums, they always denied any mistakes. They told the fans to more or less get over any dislikes, and in other cases they repeatedly stated that people were mad as a knee-jerk reaction, and so they need to cool off before criticising the game.

I would very much like links to them admitting mistakes were made (genuinely), because from what I have experienced, they never have. Not without using PR talk ("We can see why some people might not like it" etc.)

Mass effect 3 wasn't really rushed, it had a ending change at the last minute, large difference.

Secondly most games say they are gonna do X Y and Z and end up not doing themm especially in RPG world.

thirdly http://www.computerandvideogames.com/303679/bioware-admits-dragon-age-faults-discusses-the-future/
"Commenting on the forum, Gaider said: "I am absolutely aware of the concerns voiced here. Issues like level re-use, the implementation of wave combat, concerns about the narrative and significance of choice and so on have all been not only noted, but examined, inspected and even aided me (and many, many others on the team) in formulating future plans."

He adds: "Further, I'm not only aware of the concerns, but I agree that there are aspects of DA II that not only can but must be improved in future installments. And that is precisely our intent.""

This maybe all well and good but fans are going to question them regardless.Bringing up all the failed promises of Mass Effect 3.A lot of them are going to be leery about buying it and I'm guessing will wait a few weeks before picking it up if at all.

 

[Blind0bserver]

Is it a "victory"? Well, I guess that varies from person to person. My only issues with the ending was a lack of closure that, according to the press release, is being fixed. Then again, that's just me.

Here's something I can say that I know isn't subjective. Whether you think it's a "win" or not, it's over. They're changing the ending. It was reque- no, outright demanded and it's happening. Regardless of what happens next the "force them to change the ending" gambit isn't going to work twice. Fuck, according to conventional reason it shouldn't have even worked the first time.

It's over. The ending is being modified, and regardless of how you perceive the quality of it post-change no amount of comments, criticism, whining, overblown movements of cupcakes is going to do anything because they aren't changing it again.

Game over. You've either won or you've lost. Now, for the love of all that's sacred, can we finally drop this dead horse of a debate? Especially now that it's been resolved?

~V

 

[V8 Ninja]

I would wait and see what the "Extended Cut" actually does to the game before we all start bitching about how it's not a "Victory".

 

[irishda]

"Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut is not victory"

Trust me, no ones winning this.

 

[irishda]

It is a victory. That's not even a question. People wanted Bioware to respond to their discontent with the ending and they got them to work and put time into trying to improve it and release it for free like everyone wanted. It might not win the war for some people but to say that anything gained doesn't matter unless everything I want goes my way... well it would back up the valid entitlement accusations thrown at the movement.

They're basically responding to pages upon pages of criticism and analysis with a condescending "oh, you just don't understand the ending, so let us clarify."

The Extended Cut would be all fine and dandy if the problem with the original ending was in its delivery... rather than the completely broken premise.

Pages upon pages of criticism that made such a wide variety of demands that there's no way Bioware would've been able to answer all of them. Fuck's sake, there's NO measure of unifying agreement between everyone in Retake, and that's part of the reason a lot of us criticized it. You can't give fans what they want if the fans can't even agree in the first place.

Comb through ANY ME3 thread, hell probably even THIS thread, and you'll see at least a dozen people saying "I wouldn't have minded it if it just offered a little closure/clarity."

Bioware didn't offer some "condescending" response, it just responded to a faction asking for something other than what yours wanted.

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

I don't care at this point. I love Mass Effect and it's universe but it seems that Bioware doesn't care about the established universe anymore (Unless they can somehow magically rebuild the Mass Relays ... in which case I would have to wonder why they didn't build more Mass Relays).

Besides, the first playthrough of a game is usually the most memorable ... No amount of Asari lesbian porn will be able to wash away the taint of the last 10 minutes of the game ...

... Oh well, Diablo 3 is coming out soon anyways. No point in scratching old wounds

 

[JediMB]

It is a victory. That's not even a question. People wanted Bioware to respond to their discontent with the ending and they got them to work and put time into trying to improve it and release it for free like everyone wanted. It might not win the war for some people but to say that anything gained doesn't matter unless everything I want goes my way... well it would back up the valid entitlement accusations thrown at the movement.

They're basically responding to pages upon pages of criticism and analysis with a condescending "oh, you just don't understand the ending, so let us clarify."

The Extended Cut would be all fine and dandy if the problem with the original ending was in its delivery... rather than the completely broken premise.

Pages upon pages of criticism that made such a wide variety of demands that there's no way Bioware would've been able to answer all of them. Fuck's sake, there's NO measure of unifying agreement between everyone in Retake, and that's part of the reason a lot of us criticized it. You can't give fans what they want if the fans can't even agree in the first place.

Comb through ANY ME3 thread, hell probably even THIS thread, and you'll see at least a dozen people saying "I wouldn't have minded it if it just offered a little closure/clarity."

Bioware didn't offer some "condescending" response, it just responded to a faction asking for something other than what yours wanted.

What I see is that many complain about the various symptoms of the ending's terribleness, while others complain about the cause. (The cause being the disjointed writing that lead to and included the introduction of the Catalyst as a character.)

There are many who would be happy with if BioWare simply treated some of the symptoms, sure. (Like the lack of informed choice at the end, or closure after the so-called "climax.") But a majority of these people would probably also be happy if BioWare uprooted the entire cancerous ending and replaced it with something that was a better narrative fit, and included clarity and closure in that package instead.

There are countless videos, google docs and blog posts documenting in detail what is wrong with the ending purely on the level of narrative consistency and continuity, but these things have seemingly been ignored in favor an attempt to explain the plot holes away.

I'll be fair, though... There is actually a way for the ending to (more or less) make sense without anything having to be cut out. The game as it is might even be hinting at it, although very vaguely:

The "Catalyst" is lying. The "red" ending doesn't destroy non-Reaper synthetics. The Citadel really is the Catalyst, as Vendetta said. The Cata-- err, Star Child is not and has never been in control of the Reapers. It was all a ruse by some kind of incorporeal being that wanted to trick Shepard into not destroying the Reapers.

This fits well with the fact that the Star Child doesn't look anything like the types of holographic interfaces usually associated with virtual or artificial intelligences. It looks more like a ghost. EDIT1: And, of course, Shepard's secret survival and the reports of EDI surviving the ending. (Also, the Geth are never shown to live or die.)

EDIT2: And what exactly people want isn't really the issue. BioWare's staff should be able to look at the criticism, then look at their game, and come up with their own conclusions as to what exactly is wrong. Because as much as we can make demands, all decision-making rests on them.

 

[daveman247]

At this point i just want the subject to die in a hole.

And complaining about it is SURE to make it go away.

Damn right it will ^_^

 

[Harb]

Today I've heard the latest theory regarding the Mass Effect 3 ending (singular used on purpose).

"It has been outsourced!"

Owners of Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Battlefield 3 will probably get the hint .

 

[Falsename]

I think this situation was already addressed by Bioware. On this site now less.

"We know that we can't make everyone happy/satisfied. But we're gonna try"... alright maybe not in those words but still.

Hopefully Bioware can see past the vocal group and to the general consensus (hehe, consensus...). Some, if not most are happy with the extended cut. I am. Of course there are going to be those that still don't like it, but it's going to be far less than what it used to be.

It's the way society works. It's the disappointed group that're more vocal than the satisfied and happy group. Fewer people express gratitude than they will disappointment.


I hope that people will judge the Extended Cut based on it's own merit and not of expectations from what the endings used to be. It's hard to see a movie for what it's worth if you're being told it sucks beforehand.

I was sorely disappointed in the original endings. Now I'm ecstatic for the new ones. Thank you Bioware.

 

[ralfy]

The EC solved only minor problems. The major ones remained, and the issue became worse with a fourth option that leads only to defeat.

Thus, not only was the ending not fixed, EMS still did not influence it, as seen in the fourth option.

 

[Ravinius]

Whateveralot even if quarion liveships weren't destroyed they're only good for producing food for quarians and turians as they're biology is incompatible with anyone else on the fleet.

Awexsome on board ftl drives are relatively short range. They're good for travel between systems in a single cluster but acording to codex it can take decades to centuries in order to travel between clusters. So no they can't return home.

 

[Vuliev]

The EC solved only minor problems. The major ones remained, and the issue became worse with a fourth option that leads only to defeat.

Thus, not only was the ending not fixed, EMS still did not influence it, as seen in the fourth option.

I'm just curious--what did you think the "major" problems were (aside from the fact that the Catalyst was the same child that got forced on us the whole game?) I think the EC did a much better job of making the final choice as difficult as it should have been, by providing us with enough information to make each choice appealing in their own way.

Again, just curious, not trying to jump on you or anything.

 

[Lonan]

Snip

How does one get their console stolen? Break-in? That sucks :\

Yeah, they broke in.
Made off with so much of my stuff it's unbelievable. Worst still I had never even gotten to play Mass Effect 3 because like an idiot I decided to be responsible and get my uni studies done first.

Um, I also did my uni studies first, it was EXTREMELY painful, but I definitely don't feel like an idiot for it. I'm sorry about your break-in though.

 

[ralfy]

I'm just curious--what did you think the "major" problems were (aside from the fact that the Catalyst was the same child that got forced on us the whole game?) I think the EC did a much better job of making the final choice as difficult as it should have been, by providing us with enough information to make each choice appealing in their own way.

Again, just curious, not trying to jump on you or anything.

The three endings go against Shephard's character for obvious reasons. The fourth ending is very likely the one that he will choose given his friendship with beings of various races and even synthetics, his desire to unite races against a common threat but maintain diversity, and his firm belief in individuality and responsibility, but it ends in defeat no matter what his EMS is.

Thus, not only is it a broken story, it's even a broken game.