Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is not victory.

[BreakfastMan]

There never really was a good chance at victory, even though it wouldn't be too hard to give us what we wanted [Yeah, a cheap job of it, but a lot would accept that][Why I say this: Simply replace Catalyst with Harbinger hologram, add in option to say no, make Reapers win the fight, but show your war assets in effect. Then do what they're doing now. Not a ton of extra work IMO].

I would be surprised if this DLC does not do something like that, honestly. This is mostly the type of thing I am expecting from it. The FAQ certianly makes it sound like they are doing a DA style wrap-up, at least. :/

OT: Being as someone who is not part of the Retake ME movement, I can't comment on how this will satisfy others. I will say that it disappoints me how many people are jumping to negative conclusions based on how little we have to go on. I say just sit back and wait for now. Bioware has listened (otherwise, why would they do this?), and they are trying to deliver something to satisfy all y'all.

Also, Angry Joe? Really? Just... Really? Okay...

 

[RedDeadFred]

Well it's a victory to me if it actually manages to tie up the plot holes from the original ending.
I didn't really care about the lack of choice or the lack of full closure on the characters, I just hated the plot holes.

 

[renegade7]

I'm just glad they're not charging us for it. I honestly wouldn't have put it past them if they did.

 

[DustyDrB]

*sighs*

Well, I guess nothing is going to please you then.

Honestly, would it have earned them any more respect if they changed the ending from where it stands? I don't think they should change it, just give a bit more explanation on the events that happened and some more insight into what happened to the characters. And from what I gather, that's exactly what this is setting out to do. If they explain everything well, I don't think they should change the ending at all. I wish the indoctrination theory was true, because it would more easily allow for further continuations of the game, but as it stands I think an explanation is the best thing that they could offer without changing the ending just because we say so.

People are going to complain no matter what, so maybe they should just ignore everyone anyway.

People are going to complain no matter what. But they aren't going to start movements and create elaborate theories to try to reconcile the inconsistencies in both lore and quality no matter what. Would it make people happier if they outright changed the ending? Assuming it at the very least fits in the context of the universe and isn't broken, then people by and large actually would be happier. I'm sure a few people would still complain, so you could technically say, "Oh, you'll just never be happy". But it should be obvious by now that this isn't a run-of-the-mill kind of disappointment. We shouldn't still be having to explain that at this point.

 

[gundamrx101]

I agree explaining why your crap, is crap. Is still crap.

Casey Hudson as long as you work at bioware, I won't be giving you money.

 

[AD-Stu]

This whole thing says more about the fans of the series than the company that made it. We saw this occur earlier in the year when the Mass Effect book was released and there was a petition to change various lore issues that were discovered.

If you don't like the product, the only recourse you have is to ask for a refund.

*sigh*

You missed the important bit in that story - there was big fan outcry over the book and within a few days Bioware had committed to fixing it and republishing the book.

That's just one example of many in this series where Bioware have done exactly what fans asked for. They've established that asking for a refund isn't the only recourse their fans have. Bioware dug this hole.

So it's wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too late to be pretending fans are being delusional by asking for something to be changed - they're just doing what has worked pretty much every time in the past.

 

[Samantha Burt]

This whole thing says more about the fans of the series than the company that made it. We saw this occur earlier in the year when the Mass Effect book was released and there was a petition to change various lore issues that were discovered.

Contributing to fandom does not inherently provide the consumer with creative rights to a given product. This is especially true of "art forms" which, I think, most Mass Effect fans would argue the video game is aspiring towards. Consumerism simply provides the ability to consume the product.

If you don't like the product, the only recourse you have is to ask for a refund.

This basic fact is altogether missing in the hive-mind that encapsulates the Mass Effect fan base.

The issue with the ending is the same as the issue with the book. Bioware make a point of consistent background lore and history. All the story fits in and makes sense with occasional tweaks for artistic license when an explosion needs to happen.

The ending, like the book, threw it ALL out the window. Broke down the well-established back story and technological explanations. It also shifted focus away, quite drastically, from the main point of the series: the characters, in the last 10 minutes. Suddenly, we don't care about Joker or EDI or anyone, we care about ALL organic/synthetic life.

The choices themselves aren't even consistent. Why does red destroy ALL synthetics, the the blue only affect the Reapers? We don't care if the ending is tragic, we don't care if it leaves open a sequel. We care that Bioware gave up on themselves at the final hurdle.

In regards to the refund point. Would you get a refund on a car if it had a faulty component, or would you get it replaced/fixed? That's how I see this.

 

[Smiley Face]

It's not a total victory, but it is A victory. Yes, the ending scenario is stupid in many ways, and that's almost definitely not going to change (But never say never) - but there are many problems with it that can be addressed. The biggest problem that I had with the ending is that it didn't give me any information at all on the issues I cared about (Allies, the future of the galaxy). Also, the consequences of each individual choice was poorly explained, and the post-choice sequence of events is fantastically unclear (and nonsensical). Those are likely to be addressed in this DLC, and that is A victory. It could be better - in all likelihood, everything Shepard experiences will remain unchanged, and that's unfortunate, because the last few minutes just suck, not because of the "pick an option and die" format - that can work - but because the options aren't properly explained, what is explained doesn't make sense, and Shepard can't object. That's a huge problem that should never have happened. But it's unlikely to be remedied at this point, so I'll take what I can get.

That said, they could always change their minds/be keeping it under wraps and fix it. But even if they don't, this will go a long way towards making me happier.

 

[Lizardon]

Well from what I can tell, there a 3 types of people when it comes to the ending
-those who will only be satisfied with a happy ending
-those who want the ending redone and better executed, to fix plot holes and have their choices have a larger impact on the ending
-those who simply want some closure as the ending is rather abrupt

So I guess it is a victory for those in the third camp. I'm still suspicious as whether or not this is actually in response to the fanbase, or if that this epilogue was planned from the begging and was either cut so the game would launch on time and it would be given out as free DLC later, or that it was cut to be sold as DLC, but all the negative publicity made them decide to make it free.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I don't care for the ending as is. I think it poorly fitted to the spirit of the series in all respects. However. The end of something so engrossing and epic is pretty much going to fall short of expectations. That is just a sad flipside of doing something people love so much - wrapping it up perfectly is nearly impossible, and even if you should manage to hit the magic mark - someone's going to be unhappy. People are going to be unhappy just because something they loved ended. Period. There's no "winning" in this respect.

On the other hand, I only wanted to know what happened. I just wanted to feel done enough to pick it up and play it again with the feeling that I finished it behind me and could start again afresh for replays. I'm a simple woman that way.

So, if the extended cut does that - great, fine, alright that will do. If it doesn't, well then I'm back where I started not knowing what to do with myself when the credits roll.

As for the quality of the ending - see above, not great don't love it but I will accept the will of the writer(s) because in the end I must. Not telling me what happened - not having an end that even seemed like an ending at all - is something I can protest, the quality issue is something I feel is more subjective.

 

[Unsilenced]

So... wait... does this mean gaming hasn't gone back a decade?

Can I stop playing Age of Mythology now?

 

[BreakfastMan]

So... wait... does this mean gaming hasn't gone back a decade?

Can I stop playing Age of Mythology now?

To answer those in order: yes and no. Age of Mythology is too damn good to stop playing. Now, what are you doing wasting time on forums? Get back to playing it! D:<

 

[Something Amyss]

I have not watched this channels videos before and do not care if you are a fan or if you hate the man but points are made about how this "Extended Cut" is not a victory for Retake Mass Effect.

I'm going to point out that I dislike Angry Joe, but I think it more underscores the fact that I appreciate his points, because it's harder to agree with someone you dislike.

But yes, this is what I've been saying since I read the PR. People didn't really look. What's funny is, this is another problem with video game journalism, because some fairly big sites misreported this. This is the opposite of a victory, sometimes called a loss. They totally missed the problem and all information points to NONE of it being addressed.

Though I do enjoy the apparent confirmation that the indoctrination theory is false, because I am amused by conspiracy theorists being shot down, and Indoctrination really was a conspiracy theory.

 

[LetalisK]

Deus Ex and it's diverse three endings begat Invisible War. It can be done, doesn't mean it will be good. I always thought that they would make more games in the Mass Effect universe but not directly relating to the trilogy.

Wait, you're kidding, right? Mass Effect 3's endings follow the same formula as Deus Ex. Choose Control, Integrate, or Destroy(A, B, or C), your previous choices don't matter for shit, enjoy a tiny chunk of unique cutscene that lasts less time than it takes me to piss(Bioware went the "extra mile" and padded each ending with a few more minutes of copy/paste since theirs was even shorter) and then sit back and bask in the glorious rushed bullshit you were just handed because the developer ran out of time and/or money. The only reason Deus Ex gets away with this, and continues to get away with this, is because it was sadly the best we had at the time.

 

[Zen Toombs]

-OP-

While I can get behind "Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut" not being a victory, I vote we wait and see before we condemn it. As unlikely as it may be, Bioware could salvage the ending with this DLC.

Remember, the Mass Effect Multiplayer initially upset or concerned almost everyone - once the game was out, almost everyone loved it. Wait and see.

 

[J.d. Scott]

Oh, the tears. I love them so!

I'm so glad that Bioware basically told the "indoctrination ending" to kiss off, and all the pompous windbags who thought that by playing a franchise that they somehow knew it better then the creators to kiss off.

I hope this delicious kick in the teeth reminds all of you that you're fans of an interactive medium, not creators of it, and no matter how interactive the medium is, you're still just an end user.

I hope they go into great detail, fix all the plot holes, and then give you the same three choices you hated before, so that no matter how epic the ending, how epic the scope of the game, and how justified the ending you, that I can still listen to you guys whine and cry.

 

[Joccaren]

I would be surprised if this DLC does not do something like that, honestly. This is mostly the type of thing I am expecting from it. The FAQ certianly makes it sound like they are doing a DA style wrap-up, at least. :/

They have stated they are not adding any endings, nor changing any of them. The exact same stuff will happen, though with extra cutscenes for clarification, some dialogue if you picked destroy and lived with your LI and crew, and likely an epilogue sequence as they have stated they're not adding gameplay in, but are also not just doing cutscenes.
Kinda sad. It really would have been simple, and made a lot more people happy.

 

[Ihniwid]

*sigh*

You missed the important bit in that story - there was big fan outcry over the book and within a few days Bioware had committed to fixing it and republishing the book.

That's just one example of many in this series where Bioware have done exactly what fans asked for. They've established that asking for a refund isn't the only recourse their fans have. Bioware dug this hole.

So it's wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too late to be pretending fans are being delusional by asking for something to be changed - they're just doing what has worked pretty much every time in the past.

Hey Stu,

First of all, I did not explicitly say that Bioware is not a part of this problem. I do, however, believe that the percentage of fans that are outwardly expressing a mode of recourse from Bioware are irrational.

Now, your comment about the book fans directly effecting the video game fans is something I do not entirely agree with. There are two reasons for this:

1. We are switching between mediums, and consequently, fan bases. We can't assume a "Mass Effect 3 fan" is also a "Mass Effect book" fan.

2. The book issue involves a different set of circumstances. The central theme of which seemed to be (from my casual reading of various news articles) that the author had very little knowledge of the Mass Effect lore, thus creating an inaccurate work of sci-fi fiction.

I truly think that this problem - and I really do see it as a sort of problem - involves the developers and the players. In my opinion, the fans have no real place to ask for a change in the ending of the game. And the developers, on the other hand, have indeed portrayed themselves as a cooperative between player and designer. Casey Hudson even said at one point that "Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players." So I think this whole issue is much more complicated than we generally portray it. There's a real sense of identity crisis on both ends.

What I find irksome about your comment though, Stu, is that you seem to be siding with the fan reaction because Bioware has tried to appease their fan base in the past. As if the exception to the rule seemingly proves the whole rule is a sham. This is a rather lazy way to look at the whole issue.

The issue with the ending is the same as the issue with the book. Bioware make a point of consistent background lore and history. All the story fits in and makes sense with occasional tweaks for artistic license when an explosion needs to happen.

The ending, like the book, threw it ALL out the window. Broke down the well-established back story and technological explanations. It also shifted focus away, quite drastically, from the main point of the series: the characters, in the last 10 minutes. Suddenly, we don't care about Joker or EDI or anyone, we care about ALL organic/synthetic life.

The choices themselves aren't even consistent. Why does red destroy ALL synthetics, the the blue only affect the Reapers? We don't care if the ending is tragic, we don't care if it leaves open a sequel. We care that Bioware gave up on themselves at the final hurdle.

In regards to the refund point. Would you get a refund on a car if it had a faulty component, or would you get it replaced/fixed? That's how I see this.

Hey Burt,

I'll only be addressing the car point, since the answer to said point pretty much covers our entire disagreement. My answer: I don't agree with the analogy What you are getting at here is more complicated than you make it seem. A video game is a medium of expression, it is not a utility. A car is built to be used, a video game is made to be experienced. If you have a problem with a car, then there is an avenue of recourse that does not exist, and in my opinion, really shouldn't exist, for video games.

I totally understand your angst, I do. You put in a lot of time and effort into the Mass Effect trilogy and you feel as if the ending did not adhere to your expectations or even to the entire fictional world that Bioware had created. But that is part of experiencing a medium. If anything, your annoyance with the story should tell you stay clear of that particular writer/publisher/series. They aren't worth your time.

How does that saying go... fool me once... etc.

And for my own interest, can I ask you something: How does changing the ending, after the fact, resolve your contentions with the experience? Hasn't the damage been done? What do you gain?