Meh I don't think they should have done crap and just left it as it is. But i'm not one to pass on free stuff so... :3
Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut ~ It's Official :O
- Thread starter Fappy
- Start date
Hey guys I know this is kind of off-topic but I started up Skyrim recently and it looked like this. [http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/morrowind/morrowind9.jpg] It's very strange and I was wondering if anyone else was having the same problem.
It's almost as if gaming were sent back all the way back to 2002, like someth...
Wait...
What's this?
They changed the ending to Mass Effect 3?
OH GOD WHAT HAVE YOU PEOPLE DONE???
It's almost as if gaming were sent back all the way back to 2002, like someth...
Wait...
What's this?
They changed the ending to Mass Effect 3?
OH GOD WHAT HAVE YOU PEOPLE DONE???
You ran a Mass Effect d20 game this summer too?! What are the odds?Fappy said:
Actually, I already ran the end of ME3 in my game - during the summer. I was actually running for a player playing as Shepard, so I not only had to write my own ending, but the entirety of ME3.
My game didn't have a Crucible (since I didn't know about it). Instead, all the collected resources went into building a fleet of Upgraded SR ships to vanguard (pun intended) the attack on the Reaper fleet. Prohibitively expensive my ass - the Quarian Corps of Engineers was on the scene. ^^
Screw magic mcguffinery - in my game, Shepard destroyed the Reaper fleet in full-on combat. The Collector ship was Reaper Tech - if the Normandy could solo it, then it could solo a Reaper Destroyer. A fleet of Normandies... you get the idea. ^^
...You know, I tried, but I just can't let that go by unchallenged.SajuukKhar said:
A) That logic assumes pure randomness and an infinite timescale. Sapience and decision making abilities kinda muck up the equation. There's considerable difference between rolling a dice every day to determine what you want for lunch and being asked each day what you'd like for lunch. While it is a statistical certainty that given enough time (and a finite number of lunch options) any given possibility in the former example will eventually be represented, the latter has no such guarantee.
B) Even ignoring that, by the logic espoused in that statement, "synthetics and organics will create a lasting peace" must also be taken as a given for exactly the same reason.
C) Ignoring both of those: Regardless of the player's personal take on it, the passive acceptance of the statement requires that Shepherd break character to work as his interactions with Synthetics stand in contrast to the claim made. This is especially true for a Shepherd that successfully brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians and one who convinced EDI and Joker to pursue a romantic relationship, to say nothing of his/her interaction with Legion. Your own conclusions about the organic/synthetic conflict nonwithstanding, Shepherd's own experiences practically mandate that he/she take the claim with at least a grain of salt. Regardless of the decision made in the end, the doubt should be present.
D) ...Those are the only plotholes? Really? Let's see, off the top of my head:
As an initial note: Speculation regarding possible explanations are all well and good, but ultimately irrelevant. Unless the games and/or official associated materials allude to them, they are plotholes. For clarity's sake, a plothole is defined as a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. This includes but is not limited to statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline,
illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or even unlikely behaviour or actions from the characters. Now that that's clarified, let's begin.
1) How could the Crucible rewrite all life into an organic-synthetic hybrid with a wave of energy? Given the sheer diversity shown, wouldn't such a change require a much finer level of detail than a wave of energy could provide?
1a) How could the Crucible create organic-synthetic hybrids based off of Shepherd? The Catalyst strongly implies that this change would permanently change life...how? Are cells being rewritten into nanites? How do you create something that would carry over to subsequent generations through what can best be described as a cyborg? Shepherd wasn't rewritten at a genetic level, he was given various cybernetic augments to effectively return him from the dead, so how can his template work as the Catalyst implies?
1b) How does being organic-synthetic fix the problem? Can't the resulting amalgamations still create purely synthetic life? What's preventing them from creating new synthetic life that would do what the Catalyst feared?
2) How did the Citadel even get to Earth? It's shown no signs of locomotion before. Can a Relay really send other relays (Which the Citadel is identified as in the first game) to other parts of the galaxy?
3) Why does the Crucible even work the way it does? Did the previous races know the Catalyst was an AI controlling the Reapers? The Catalyst says that no other organic has ever made it as far as Shepherd. Does that mean this reaction was completely unexpected? What was the Crucible originally designed to do?
3a) How does destroying a pipe result in such a complex function as targeting synthetics and ONLY synthetics (as shown in higher War Assets versions of the destruction ending) for destruction? If that was the original purpose of the Crucible, why does it require the destruction of a part of the crucible itself?
3b) How do you control the Reapers? Was this really a part of the Crucible's intended function? If so, why was the user interface so inhospitible? Why can't I just have the Reapers shut down, self-destruct or go idle to let the Victory Fleet tear them apart? Do I still control them after my body disintigrates? Do I continue to exist at all? If so, how? Am I the new Catalyst?
3c) How does jumping into a beam of light turn you into a template anyways? Is that some kind of scanner? Wouldn't a template based on humans only apply to humans? Wouldn't it be lethal to Turians and Quarians? Is everything part human now too? That aside, how does jumping into that beam send a command to use the template that jumping into that beam created?
3d) Why isn't there some form of user interface? Regardless of who designed it, shouldn't there logically be some way to interact with the Crucible like that master control for the Citadel in ME1? Even if that wasn't part of the original design, wouldn't the people who actually made it have adapted it to include one?
4) How do the Relays even factor in? Up until now they'd only been shown to be transporters, and yet suddenly their destruction is affecting change along completely different lines. Were they always capable of this but we didn't know it? If so, why would such functions be created? Why would it require their destruction to work? Why weren't they ever used before? Was this something the Crucible did? How? No race had ever fully understood the Relays. Did they just luck into not one but three different functions?
5) Why isn't the galaxy destroyed? In Arrival we establish that a Mass Relay's destruction is devastating enough to destroy a star system. During ME3's ending we see a far larger shockwave on the galaxy map that progress for light-years in a matter of seconds. The shockwave required for that alone should have been fatal to everything within its radius. Regardless of the type of explosion, how could anything survive? If they aren't damaging, why did they destroy the engines of the Normandy?
6) Why did the Catalyst wait until now to manifest? Was this another function of the Crucible? If it always had the ability, why was Sovereign ever needed? Couldn't the Catalyst just pose as a VI and manipulate the races on the Citadel into manually calling the Reapers in? Why would they need a vanguard at all? The Catalyst is already in prime position and has access to all the data the Reapers would ever need.
7) Isn't the Catalyst itself an AI? We've had no indication that the Citadel has an organic basis, so wouldn't its own existence invalidate its claims by its own criteria?
8) When the Catalyst says that one option will destroy all synthetic life, where does it draw the line? The Catalyst implies that Shepherd qualifies under this definition. Does this mean that anyone with cybernetic augments does too? Am I killing all biotics by doing this? What about the Guarians? They use cybernetics to interface with their suits. Does this include VIs other than the Geth? Am I dooming anyone in a spaceship if I choose the red ending?
And that's just a start, mind you. I haven't even gotten into the nitty-gritty details about the beam of light leading up to the citadel, the oddity of Shepherd surviving a direct attack from Harbinger despite the capabilities such attacks had previously shown, how TIM had developed the capacity to physically control people against their active wills in a manner that bore little to no resemblance to the technology he claimed it stemmed from...
illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or even unlikely behaviour or actions from the characters. Now that that's clarified, let's begin.
1) How could the Crucible rewrite all life into an organic-synthetic hybrid with a wave of energy? Given the sheer diversity shown, wouldn't such a change require a much finer level of detail than a wave of energy could provide?
1a) How could the Crucible create organic-synthetic hybrids based off of Shepherd? The Catalyst strongly implies that this change would permanently change life...how? Are cells being rewritten into nanites? How do you create something that would carry over to subsequent generations through what can best be described as a cyborg? Shepherd wasn't rewritten at a genetic level, he was given various cybernetic augments to effectively return him from the dead, so how can his template work as the Catalyst implies?
1b) How does being organic-synthetic fix the problem? Can't the resulting amalgamations still create purely synthetic life? What's preventing them from creating new synthetic life that would do what the Catalyst feared?
2) How did the Citadel even get to Earth? It's shown no signs of locomotion before. Can a Relay really send other relays (Which the Citadel is identified as in the first game) to other parts of the galaxy?
3) Why does the Crucible even work the way it does? Did the previous races know the Catalyst was an AI controlling the Reapers? The Catalyst says that no other organic has ever made it as far as Shepherd. Does that mean this reaction was completely unexpected? What was the Crucible originally designed to do?
3a) How does destroying a pipe result in such a complex function as targeting synthetics and ONLY synthetics (as shown in higher War Assets versions of the destruction ending) for destruction? If that was the original purpose of the Crucible, why does it require the destruction of a part of the crucible itself?
3b) How do you control the Reapers? Was this really a part of the Crucible's intended function? If so, why was the user interface so inhospitible? Why can't I just have the Reapers shut down, self-destruct or go idle to let the Victory Fleet tear them apart? Do I still control them after my body disintigrates? Do I continue to exist at all? If so, how? Am I the new Catalyst?
3c) How does jumping into a beam of light turn you into a template anyways? Is that some kind of scanner? Wouldn't a template based on humans only apply to humans? Wouldn't it be lethal to Turians and Quarians? Is everything part human now too? That aside, how does jumping into that beam send a command to use the template that jumping into that beam created?
3d) Why isn't there some form of user interface? Regardless of who designed it, shouldn't there logically be some way to interact with the Crucible like that master control for the Citadel in ME1? Even if that wasn't part of the original design, wouldn't the people who actually made it have adapted it to include one?
4) How do the Relays even factor in? Up until now they'd only been shown to be transporters, and yet suddenly their destruction is affecting change along completely different lines. Were they always capable of this but we didn't know it? If so, why would such functions be created? Why would it require their destruction to work? Why weren't they ever used before? Was this something the Crucible did? How? No race had ever fully understood the Relays. Did they just luck into not one but three different functions?
5) Why isn't the galaxy destroyed? In Arrival we establish that a Mass Relay's destruction is devastating enough to destroy a star system. During ME3's ending we see a far larger shockwave on the galaxy map that progress for light-years in a matter of seconds. The shockwave required for that alone should have been fatal to everything within its radius. Regardless of the type of explosion, how could anything survive? If they aren't damaging, why did they destroy the engines of the Normandy?
6) Why did the Catalyst wait until now to manifest? Was this another function of the Crucible? If it always had the ability, why was Sovereign ever needed? Couldn't the Catalyst just pose as a VI and manipulate the races on the Citadel into manually calling the Reapers in? Why would they need a vanguard at all? The Catalyst is already in prime position and has access to all the data the Reapers would ever need.
7) Isn't the Catalyst itself an AI? We've had no indication that the Citadel has an organic basis, so wouldn't its own existence invalidate its claims by its own criteria?
8) When the Catalyst says that one option will destroy all synthetic life, where does it draw the line? The Catalyst implies that Shepherd qualifies under this definition. Does this mean that anyone with cybernetic augments does too? Am I killing all biotics by doing this? What about the Guarians? They use cybernetics to interface with their suits. Does this include VIs other than the Geth? Am I dooming anyone in a spaceship if I choose the red ending?
And that's just a start, mind you. I haven't even gotten into the nitty-gritty details about the beam of light leading up to the citadel, the oddity of Shepherd surviving a direct attack from Harbinger despite the capabilities such attacks had previously shown, how TIM had developed the capacity to physically control people against their active wills in a manner that bore little to no resemblance to the technology he claimed it stemmed from...
Again: In order not to qualify as a plot hole, you do need to be able to explain it based on the rules established within the source material.
Im still pretty dissapointed. If they arent going to outright retcon the ending then they really shouldnt bother, which is what it seems like they are doing anyway. I should withhold judgement til its in my hands, but extending this travesty of an ending doesnt seem like a good way to "fix" it.
well first off I said BIG plot-holes, not plotholes in general. I suggest that next time you actually read someones post before yo respond to it.Asita said:
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Secondly organics natural hatred and distrust of anything that isn't them makes lasting peace impossible. Your assumption that lasting peace would be equally as probably as total genocide would work only if we ignored the entirety of organic evolution and how the organic mind works.
so long as two distinct individuals exist they will compete against each other making long-term peace impossible.
The only way that lasting peace would be possible is if
1. We become a hive mind like ants, or close to like The Geth were before the upgrade in ME3, were everyone and everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, was all part of the same collective mind, but not necessarily of the some collective body.
2. We somehow pull a Neon Genesis Evangelion and merge everything into one super body.
i'm referring to future EA games/DLC, depending on how the extended cut goes, i might not even download it if it gets thrashed or is nothing more than a few second tid bits here and there in the "choose your color of shit" endings.DrVornoff said:
Id be more than happy to take a look at the new ending,.but I didnt feel the apparant SEETHING WORLD ENDING ITS NOT WORTH LIVING LIFE ANYMORE!!!!!!!! rage thats been poured out over it, ive seen worse endings to games.
I was just super god damn happy to make it through the end battle, One. Tough. ************.
I was just super god damn happy to make it through the end battle, One. Tough. ************.
I think I remember you detailing this in another thread a few weeks back. Sounded funBara_no_Hime said:
Yeah, I ran the first campaign the summer before ME2 came out (which took place before and during the events of ME1) and the second campaign the summer after ME2 came out (which took place before the events of the second game). The player characters have a neat little spot in the ME canon where I've basically had them running side-by-side with the timeline of the actual games. Some of the things they do/encounter fills in holes in the game lore left open to interpretation (like I have an explanation for how the Pragia facility went to hell, something Jack admits she doesn't know in ME2) and they got to react to a lot of stuff that happened in the games. The campaign canon Shep's decisions did matter!
For the sake of not spoiling the campaign for my one friend who lurks around here I'll put this in spoiler tags (LOOK AWAY JEFF!):
I am going to stick with the way the story progresses in ME3 right until the very end and basically just change the outcome of the Crucible firing. Shepard will still die, but beyond himself and the fleet nothing else is lost.
The main plot in the final campaign was actually inspired by the Arrival DLC. A secretive/virtually unknown Salarian black ops group above STG's paygrade hatches a plan to basically supernova the Charon relay in an attempt to wipe out the Reaper Fleet in the Sol system during the final assault on Earth. The main plot is centered around one of the players (a former STG agent) who this black ops group is trying to reel in for their cause. He will have to choose if he is willing to put his trust in the Crucible or if he's willing to sacrifice the allied fleets and Earth in order to *possibly* defeat the Reapers. Starting in the first campaign he was super "ends justify the means" and has softened up over the course of the two campaigns. This is the end of his character arc and his choice will determine how the campaign unfolds. It's been a fun ride and even though I plan for a bittersweet ending I think we're all going to be more upset over the fact that this is the last campaign. One of my friends in particular has had more character development than any I have seen in a pen and paper game and its going to be hard for him to say good bye the his krogan
The main plot in the final campaign was actually inspired by the Arrival DLC. A secretive/virtually unknown Salarian black ops group above STG's paygrade hatches a plan to basically supernova the Charon relay in an attempt to wipe out the Reaper Fleet in the Sol system during the final assault on Earth. The main plot is centered around one of the players (a former STG agent) who this black ops group is trying to reel in for their cause. He will have to choose if he is willing to put his trust in the Crucible or if he's willing to sacrifice the allied fleets and Earth in order to *possibly* defeat the Reapers. Starting in the first campaign he was super "ends justify the means" and has softened up over the course of the two campaigns. This is the end of his character arc and his choice will determine how the campaign unfolds. It's been a fun ride and even though I plan for a bittersweet ending I think we're all going to be more upset over the fact that this is the last campaign. One of my friends in particular has had more character development than any I have seen in a pen and paper game and its going to be hard for him to say good bye the his krogan
same way i did, demand a refund from bioware.DrVornoff said:
and yes, i got all 70 bucks back.
This when i read it was only meant to give answers to what happens and what not i just facepalmed, IT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL STRIKING A GOOD BALANCE?.Adam Jensen said:It sounds like shit. We don't want answers. This isn't LOST. We want an ending that makes sense.EA said:
Just no it may be free but it isnt the ending we were promised
Why do I get a strong feeling by the time the extended cut had arrived there will still be some fans out there who are still unhappy with the result (a vicious cycle I know).
no, its bad writing being back up by even more bad writing.Scarim Coral said:
its not a vicious cycle, its just redundant stupidity on bioware's part.
I feel you they want to justify the endings and only give you answers instead of giving us a TRUE ending that ends with shephard and his love interest how other species behave afterwards etc, But if i remember correctly Casey Hudson was the one who was ONLY in charge to write the ending if what i read was correct.Blargh McBlargh said: