Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[Aureliano]

As usually happens (though not every time) I think Yahtzee has hit the nail on the head. Of course we can't change the sequel-and-DLC machine over at EA. The reapers have to be done and apparently the mass relays are done too. Instead all they really have to do is explain two categories of things.

First: how did the mass relays, which the last DLC for ME2 told us would destroy the solar system they were in if they blew up, not destroy that huge-ass fleet near Earth, the planet Earth itself and nearly every other inhabited planet in the galaxy? Second: what the fuck did happen to everybody else in the game? If DLC or a pretty major patch fixes these two things then I will retract my objection the ending.

 

[JediMB]

I hope a lot of us consumers learn not to trust bioware again, this whole experience has been souring.

And if the big lesson from the ending is "you dont always get what you want", then I hope people take notice of this lesson and apply it to all related things.

Bioware isnt selling enough games, "well tough you dont always get what you want

Internet Reviewers arent getting enough hits on their pages or videos "well tough you dont get what you want"

I hope people that read this get the not so subtle hints.

Indeed.

I'm keeping the games I already have, of course, but as far as any future BioWare products are concerned I'm "officially" doing my very first boycott. I won't be surprised if I lose out on an awesome experience when I choose not to play Dragon Age 3, but that's just how thing will have to be.

 

[Limecake]

Here is why I have a problem with what you are saying; I was personally disappointed with the ending of ME3, although this is the first time I have expressed that on the internet, so I am not one of these so called whiny fans. (I would like to believe in the Indoctrination Theory, but I'm not sure Bioware can be that subtle.) The vast majority of people who disliked the ending don't actually believe that they control it, and should get to decide what happens, as various people on this site who shall remain nameless keep telling us. We are simply disappointed and are telling the creation of the content that we personally didn't like it. This is an entirely acceptable thing to do in any form of creative medium. The backlash against the ending has been mind blowing, but perhaps this should tell Bioware something.

again, there is nothing wrong with being vocal about not liking something. I never claimed you aren't allowed to be upset about the game or you aren't allowed to not like the ending. Telling Bioware you aren't satisfied with the ending to their trilogy is a perfectly normal reaction to something.

We are not expressing our entitlement to have Bioware do what we want with the series, we are simply telling them that we didn't enjoy it. If they subsequently choose to alter the ending in some way, then they are doing that to fix what we didn't like. This, again, is entirely reasonable.

yes this is entirely reasonable, you can be happy they choose to fix the ending. You can choose to not buy any more Bioware games. This is all fine I have absolutely no issue with people being dissatisfied/upset with a product. But you also can't be upset if Bioware chooses to leave the ending as is.

Because this is where the problem lies, I have no problem with people being upset with ME3's ending. But in no way shape or form is Bioware obligated to change anything. They spent the millions of dollars and years of developement time to create the Mass Effect Trilogy, they own it.

You are free to inform Bioware that you aren't happy with their ending, if they change it because they want to, then congratulations you get the new ending you were hoping for. However something tells me if Bioware were to leave the ending as is the fans wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and say "well at least we told them we weren't happy"

again, you can be unhappy with the series, you can be happy at the thought of getting a new ending. But you can not be upset if Bioware decides to not alter their art because of fan outrage.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just far more forgiving because I always thought the journey (and not the end result) was the most satisfying part of the games. It's why I could play Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 multiple times even though I know I wouldn't get any answers to important questions (like the genophage)

 

[The.Bard]

General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.

Well you certainly haven't been looking very hard for explainations, there's one at the top of this page and probably about a hundred others on this site alone.

Also, the majority of the "retake" crowd don't hate Bioware or even the game itself, just the ending. So yes, I'm pretty confidant this can be considered you "not getting it".

And it is very easy for those of us who believe in

...a VERY well constructed & intentionally misleading ending based on indoctrination:

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1


to turn around and say that those who think the ending needs to be "retaken" from the people who made it are the ones who "don't get it."


TOUCHE!

(... the circle goes on and on!)

 

[Ticonderoga117]

I don't recall him excusing anything.

And here's the way I see it: if the ME3 ending is the worst thing to happen to you this month, you're doing loads better than me.

I believe he did with the "art" angle, but eh. I wish this was the worst thing to happen to me this month. However, this isn't a private personal issue. This is something I can support openly because it comes off as being blindsided by a tank. While the game was not perfect, we enjoyed the hell out of it still until the end, which we believe couldn't come out of the same people who made the rest of the game.

The fact that it's getting in the way of having a conversation about anything else is starting to grate a bit. I feel the same way whenever any topic erupts that monopolizes the discourse for more than a couple of days.

Yeah, but unless the Space Pope lands from outer space, something of similar magnitude happens, or Bioware stops being silent about this and addresses the issue in a more concrete manner, this isn't going anyway for the time being. It sucks but that's what it is. Also doesn't help when people like MovieBob and Colin Moriarty from IGN decide to pour gasoline on a fire.

I'm of the opinion that if you're going to open your mouth, you must be prepared to back up what you're saying. That's why I'm replying to you now. I put my opinion out there, and I am now being called on to explain myself. In other words, if some person can't be fucked to back up their words, I can't be fucked to give them anything more than a scoff.

Like I said, I agree on this pretty much.

 

[Zagzag]

You are free to inform Bioware that you aren't happy with their ending, if they change it because they want to, then congratulations you get the new ending you were hoping for. However something tells me if Bioware were to leave the ending as is the fans wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and say "well at least we told them we weren't happy"

again, you can be unhappy with the series, you can be happy at the thought of getting a new ending. But you can not be upset if Bioware decides to not alter their art because of fan outrage.

If and when Bioware specifically say that they are not going to change the ending in any way, or add anything to it, then I will leave it alone, and be happy with what I have got. I do suspect that I am in the minority on this one though.
I really hope that the indoctrination theory turns out to be true though, although it probably won't, knowing Bioware. If it does, then the huge amount of backlash would make this one of the greates achievements in gaming history.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Oh, here we fucking go again. It's not about giving up and taking crap. It's about realizing that if your happiness is dependent on a video game, it's time to reevaluate your life. Express yourself, go ahead. Don't want to buy from BioWare anymore? Don't. That's all your business, not mine. But show some basic restraint for god's sake. Try to express yourself with a modicum of dignity.

I wasn't terribly keen on Dragon Age 2's ending. Do you know what I did? I got up, went outside, and felt better later. I still had fun with the game and that was all that really mattered after all.

If you want some kind of addendum to ME3's ending granting more closure, go ahead and ask for it. Like an adult. And if you don't get it, move on. Stop buying Bioware titles if it's that important to you. Just don't come back to remind the entire internet about it every 10 minutes.

I like the way you miss addressing my points once again, make ridiculous assumptions, take it to an absurd level, make derogative comments towards your own assumptions, move off topic, then fail to address the second half of my post.

Please, for the good of everyone with a decent argument, remove yourself from the internet.

Don't bother replying, I'd rather not read your painfully construed arguments anymore.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

You just want one that "doesn't fucking suck", presenting one as an objective term.

First of all, whether or not it "fucking sucks" is your opinion. So when you say you just want a story that doesn't suck, you mean that you want one that is tailored to your interests. A story made to appeal to you. And that's not how writing works. You may not like it, but the writers aren't writing to please you.

And yes, there are multiple writers on a team. I'm aware of how these things work. I am referring to them as a conglomerate "artist", assuming that they communicate with each other and work on the same wavelength.

And sure, you'd throw the book back at the artist and tell them to do it again, but you'd still be wrong for doing it. What you fail to grasp is that there is a very large difference between wishing they would change it, and demanding. Critics who give constructive criticism are doing it because it is their job to do so, not because they have some sense of entitlement as fans. Yes, Bioware still has the option of listening to you, but that still doesn't make you look any better for demanding it. Why does only one party require choice?

There is a difference between an ending tailor made for everyone, and one that is simply consistent with the rest of the game and lore. My personal story would have involved killing Miranda the first time she opened her smug mouth and carrying around her skull as an example to the rest. But that's not reasonable to expect, and I believe its also not reasonable for a glowing space fetus to fall from the sky and present us with the Endingtron 3000 he borrowed from Deus Ex.

And they kinda are writing to please me and all the other people buying the game. They didn't do this for their own fun. And how are they going to know their work sucks if the only people allowed to speak are paid off by Daddy EA? Demanding is the only tool we have. It's insulting that you want to take it away.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

I mean, can you imagine if someone complained like this about the ending of another game?

It's been said before, but: wasn't that exactly what happened with Fallout 3?

This is where the comparisons and allegories fail: video games are much more malleable and subject to gradual change than any other medium. Just because BioWare is within its rights to rest on its collective laurels and do nothing in response to criticism doesn't mean that's the best course of action - if they're capable of doing something, anything, to make the ending less of a Gainax situation, why shouldn't they? Fans aren't demanding to write a new ending themselves, they're asking for BioWare to reconsider the finished product.

 

[Formica Archonis]

My thoughts as a non Mass Effect player who's been following the controversy, because I'm sexy and wonderful and you all care about my opinions:

1) The ending was a hastily-written piece of crap.
2) That isn't the first time fiction has had an ending that's a hastily-written piece of crap. I can understand the anger but much of the reaction is a bit over the top.
3) Whatever Bioware does, it will just make at least half the angry people even angrier, even if it appeases some of the remainder. Were I them, I'd just leave the ending as is and chalk it up to a learning experience.
4) MovieBob is a screaming fanboy every bit like the worst of the screaming "CHANGE THE ENDING" fanboys, just in the other direction. I used to watch his stuff somewhat regularly and with a grain of salt, but this just made me realize that the salt was getting bigger and bigger with each video he released, and it's ultimately not worth wasting my time watching.

 

[ewhac]

I've been given to understand that Bioware are talking about changing the ending under the massive pressure from the idiot fanbase, and I hope like hell they're just talking about doing something like that, an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Because it would set a horrible precedent if they're serious about actually changing the ending in line with some kind of democratically agreed upon alternative, rather than merely expanding or adding to it.

It may interest you to know, if you didn't already, that the film Little Shop of Horrors [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091419/] originally had Seymour and Audrey I getting killed. Yes, in the original cut, the plant Audrey II wins and takes over the world. It's still that way in the off-Broadway musical on which the film is based.

Test audiences, however, tore the filmmakers a new one over the ending. So they went back [em]and changed it[/em] to the ending you're more familiar with.

Point being: Radically changing an ending at audience insistence is not unheard of.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I agree with Yahtzee's point about the bigger picture, I just don't want to buy anything from BioWare again.

He's jumping to conclusions. He didn't take into account relevant data about Mass Effect 3 development that resulted in that ending to be able to see the correct big picture.

Point being: Radically changing an ending at audience insistence is not unheard of.

And if Mass Effect 3 had a test audience, it sure as hell wouldn't be release with that ending.

 

[Gigatoast]

There are reasonable people who have explained their feelings well enough. The histrionic crybabies? Not so much.

Wait, so you're telling me none of those points count because there are other people who don't feel they need to add to them? We don't all need to be brilliant speakers to support a cause, the majority of the so-called 'whiney' retakers only don't go into expressive detail because other people have already done it. In other words, ignore the 'whining' and just read the articles.

Maybe I'm tired of a bunch of spoiled children running unchecked because hey! You didn't like the ending either! Maybe I'm tired of seeing the people who tell them to calm down and act civil being dismissed as "not getting it."

Really? I wasn't aware calling someone an 'entitled whiner baby' is the same thing as telling someone to act civil. Nobody on the detractor side is interested in actual discussion about the topic they just resort to petty insults and impenetrable "you're killing art!" umbrella arguments. It's the retakers themselves that have to try to keep their outliers in check, there's contless threads on BSN about remaining civil and respectful in order to be taken seriously. You people on the other hand are just as 'whiney' as some of the worst retakers I've seen.

What you can't handle hearing people complain about somthing you don't care about? Oh you poor thing are you gunna cry about it?

 

[FinalHeart95]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have no right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

 

[Iscin]

http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bullshit-artistic-process/

 

[Falcon123]

Point. Missing it. Thanks for not understanding, Yahtzee.

Holding the Line.

I am in complete agreement. He missed the point, as did Moviebob, Ken Levine, etc. etc. etc.

Hold the line.

Yes, all of them missed the point. There's absolutely no way that they're able to take a more objective, long term view of this situation than a player who is so heavily invested in the series that they can't separate their anger from their argument. How could they have all been so foolish?

This is what I don't get about people who say things like this. There are two camps of people who didn't like the ending:

1. People who really didn't like the ending and wouldn't mind if it was fixed.

2. People who are demanding they change the ending, constantly writing hateful messages about how they failed to deliver on promises they were entitled to, and going so far as to file a complaint with the FTC for God's sakes!

No one is mad at Group 1. Yes, the ending is objectively flawed. You have every right to be upset about it, and if Bioware chose to pull a Bethesda and change it of their own accord, that wouldn't be a problem. No one is saying it would be. People ARE pissed off at group #2, because they're so entitled that they believe the series should be built around what they want (there was no way to make an ending that would satisfy everyone , sorry) and anything less than Bioware's complete subjugation to their demands is an absolute betrayal in their minds, to the extent that they want to "Retake Mass Effect", a game which was never theirs to begin with.

If you're in group 1, I give my sympathies to you, as it's easy to feel as if you're getting dragged into group 2 after you're already upset about how Bioware let you down. But those of you who want to keep "Holding the Line" until Bioware gives in to your demands aren't noble or even logical; you're just immature and sad, and apparently lack the ability to separate the failure of a company to produce a perfect game with your feelings about the series

 

[Falcon123]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have no right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

You have my sword on your next noble quest, though I've posted something similar on four different thread on this site and your well-founded logic and reason is unlikely to get through to people, sadly enough.

 

[Falcon123]

Your explanation is all well and good Yahtzee but I seemed to notice you failed to acknowledge the Indoctrination Theory that's going around as well.

To be fair, so has Bioware. Everything's just pointless speculation til it comes from them

 

[Falcon123]

I've been given to understand that Bioware are talking about changing the ending under the massive pressure from the idiot fanbase, and I hope like hell they're just talking about doing something like that, an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Because it would set a horrible precedent if they're serious about actually changing the ending in line with some kind of democratically agreed upon alternative, rather than merely expanding or adding to it.

It may interest you to know, if you didn't already, that the film Little Shop of Horrors [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091419/] originally had Seymour and Audrey I getting killed. Yes, in the original cut, the plant Audrey II wins and takes over the world. It's still that way in the off-Broadway musical on which the film is based.

Test audiences, however, tore the filmmakers a new one over the ending. So they went back [em]and changed it[/em] to the ending you're more familiar with.

Point being: Radically changing an ending at audience insistence is not unheard of.

Unless I'm mistaken, test audiences are done before the movie comes out. Games have play testers as well. That's all pre release. There's a massive difference between a director or game developer changing something before the game or movie comes out because it has an unintended effect on its audience and changing something after the game or movie comes out because the effect they tried to give their audience didn't go over as well as they'd hoped.

 

[Ticonderoga117]

Does the ending change the good times you had? My perspective on it is that if you enjoyed everything up until the last 10 minutes, you still came out of the equation looking pretty good.

It doesn't change the good times I've had, but it does put a rather crap mental filter over the experience. It's hard for me to describe because I never really had such a thing happen where I experienced such a difference in quality in a game. That's even after playing DX:HR with the boss fights.