Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[Falcon123]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have o right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

Alright then, here's what people don't seem to be getting:

[link]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/link]

To be honest I hate putting down a link and calling it "proof" or whatever but the guy who wrote that said it all a million times better than I could.

Except people do get that the ending objectively fails. But why is it different than when so many other works fail to live up to the hype? Why is it that people feel as if they have a right to change this game any more than any others? You don't have the rights to Mass Effect 3. You don't have the right to decide how it ends. You have the right to hate the ending, but not the right to "Retake" a game that was never yours to begin with

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

Yahtzee, and the majority of bloggers that don't agree with Retaking ME, are arguing that it's a bad precedent to set that every story can be changed if the fans yell loud enough and long enough. You're both on completely different pages and that's not entirely his fault.

The problem I have with that argument is that it assumes every game can provoke the kind of backlash we're seeing with ME3.

Let's be honest: this is hardly the first game where the ending falls flat. But the outrage here isn't about the ending, not really; rather, it's because BioWare established a very high standard of storytelling quality across three games, and then fell substantially short of that standard in the last ten minutes of the last game. That's not exactly commonplace: you can usually tell when a game is poorly-written within half an hour and adjust your expectations accordingly.

If BioWare agrees to compose a different ending - one that at least addresses the general faults of the current conclusion - I would hope the only precedent to be set would be "Don't be complacent and let your standards slip when programming endgame content."

 

[anthony87]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have o right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

Alright then, here's what people don't seem to be getting:

[link]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/link]

To be honest I hate putting down a link and calling it "proof" or whatever but the guy who wrote that said it all a million times better than I could.

Except people do get that the ending objectively fails. But why is it different than when so many other works fail to live up to the hype? Why is it that people feel as if they have a right to change this game any more than any others? You don't have the rights to Mass Effect 3. You don't have the right to decide how it ends. You have the right to hate the ending, but not the right to "Retake" a game that was never yours to begin with

I really think you're taking the "Retake" in "Retake Mass Effect" way too seriously. It's meant as a play on the "Retake Earth" or "Take back Earth" thing that was floating around prior to the games release.

What people are looking for is basically what Bethesda done with Fallout 3. Why is this such a bad thing?

 

[medv4380]

From the sounds of it the arguments and grips about the ending are to be expected.

Give the audience a "Lady or the Tiger" kind of ending only encourages the audience to backlash and demand a real ending. Frank Stockton was harassed for years for writing the story, and giving an audience that was not expecting an open ended pick your ending but we won't show you what happened ending will just anger people.

This also sounds a bit like the Death of Sherlock Holmes. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wanted to end the series and make it so he didn't have to write anymore Sherlock books. So he wrote the his death into a story, and ended up enraging his entire audience. Which then forced him to write another book where Sherlock comes back and explains how he lived though the fall.

The audience was clearly expecting some form of finality and the series didn't do enough prep work for that kind of an ending its given. I'd expect a "Lady or the Tiger" style of ending in Survival Horror. In a Space Opera I don't know of any cases where that was deliberately done outside of the author giving up in the middle of the series (usually the death of the author or burnout) or where it was canceled prior to a finally. When it "appears" to be done it's usually done as the cliff hanger for a sequel.

I half expect the given ending was left the way it was so that some future Expantion or DLC could be done as Aftermath.

 

[irishda]

Yahtzee, and the majority of bloggers that don't agree with Retaking ME, are arguing that it's a bad precedent to set that every story can be changed if the fans yell loud enough and long enough. You're both on completely different pages and that's not entirely his fault.

The problem I have with that argument is that it assumes every game can provoke the kind of backlash we're seeing with ME3.

Let's be honest: this is hardly the first game where the ending falls flat. But the outrage here isn't about the ending, not really; rather, it's because BioWare established a very high standard of storytelling quality across three games, and then fell substantially short of that standard in the last ten minutes of the last game. That's not exactly commonplace: you can usually tell when a game is poorly-written within half an hour and adjust your expectations accordingly.

If BioWare agrees to compose a different ending - one that at least addresses the general faults of the current conclusion - I would hope the only precedent to be set would be "Don't be complacent and let your standards slip when programming endgame content."

Now, Bioware is certainly at fault for falling flat here, but the precedent is still set. Games can be changed at the behest of the gamers. Then if the developer refuses, does that make them worse than Bioware then because they're not catering to their customers every demands?

 

[Howling Din]

So Mass Effect thematically asserts that scientific progress and sentient civilization, no matter how great they become, are inevitably doomed to be destroyed so everything can restart.

Am I the only one who thinks that to be the most cynical, pessimistic thing any science fiction writer could possibly squirt from his pen?

A Science Fiction story is a wondrously blank slate of infinite proportions. It can be filled by anything our minds can conjure. What kind of neurotic shithead would enter this slate. And then revert to the real-world popular belief that man dare not try to become more than they are? Things like Sci-Fi are meant to give people hope. What Mass Effect ultimately gives is the hope that one day, we can have hope.

When men one day become space-faring badasses they're going to dig up the Mass Effect trilogy, play it and think: this certainly didn't help us get as far as we actually did.

 

[FedericoV]

Did he? Did he REALLY miss the point? Did he "assume" your stance despite the countless thousands of threads spent by so many of you solidifying your points? Is it more likely he characterized your positions in a way that made you look unfavorable and now you're just assuming he "doesn't understand"? Maybe you guys are assuming his position.

He is completely missing the point because he is speaking of something he has no idea about and he is not even interested a lot to begin with by his own admission. He is just supporting Bioware so his editor will be happy.

That's all I needed to hear.

"Dragon Age 2 is the best RPG of the year".

That's what I do not wanted to read in The Escapist.

 

[chadachada123]

The people saying that they actually "get it" in response to the people saying that they don't "get it" don't really seem to "get it."

It's really damn clear that Mass Effect 3 didn't ship as a full product, either because of time/budget restraints or to lead into end-game DLC. Either way, it's really obvious that the writers did not want the story to end like that, because the ending is objectively SHIT.

Changing the ending isn't an injustice in the slightest, because the current ending wasn't the planned ending to begin with.

 

[Super Fooby]

Well shit son. That's actually a fairly reasonable argument, but I still don't think the ending is very good. The problem I have with it is that it drops so much new stuff on you (like that star-child thing and the fact that the mass relays all explode) that it just doesn't give you enough time to absorb it all in. If they had paced this stuff out over the game then it would have been better and people might not have complained. But the fact that they drop it all at the end without any foreshadowing is what makes the ending awful.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

Now, Bioware is certainly at fault for falling flat here, but the precedent is still set. Games can be changed at the behest of the gamers. Then if the developer refuses, does that make them worse than Bioware then because they're not catering to their customers every demands?

I think it would be more accurate to say that the precedent being set is: "Games can be changed at the behest of the gamers, provided there is a massive, substantial and easily quantified backlash which exceeds the volume of objections typically raised by habitual complainers."

Because, really, the sheer scale and scope of negative reactions to ME3's ending - and it's the ending specifically, not ME3 itself - exceed any other game I can think of. Discussion of Fallout 3's questionable ending wasn't nearly so virulent when Bethesda put out "Broken Steel"...

 

[Falcon123]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have o right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

Alright then, here's what people don't seem to be getting:

[link]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/link]

To be honest I hate putting down a link and calling it "proof" or whatever but the guy who wrote that said it all a million times better than I could.

Except people do get that the ending objectively fails. But why is it different than when so many other works fail to live up to the hype? Why is it that people feel as if they have a right to change this game any more than any others? You don't have the rights to Mass Effect 3. You don't have the right to decide how it ends. You have the right to hate the ending, but not the right to "Retake" a game that was never yours to begin with

I really think you're taking the "Retake" in "Retake Mass Effect" way too seriously. It's meant as a play on the "Retake Earth" or "Take back Earth" thing that was floating around prior to the games release.

What people are looking for is basically what Bethesda done with Fallout 3. Why is this such a bad thing?

If you're not not taking the phrase "retake" seriously, you're not the people that others are calling entitled. There are people who genuinely believe it's their right to retake the game, and those are the people that Yahtzee and others are writing against

 

[Candidus]

Alright then, here's what people don't seem to be getting:

[link]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/link]

To be honest I hate putting down a link and calling it "proof" or whatever but the guy who wrote that said it all a million times better than I could.

Man, that was a great read.

It's a shame the Retake detractors can't be bothered to take articles like these in, and it's a bigger shame that the overwhelming trend among the gaming press has been to take the piss out of the upset ME3 fans among its audience, usually while missing the point completely- Yahtzee included. I'd excuse him for not really knowing jack or caring about ME3 to begin with, but if you're going to comment on a debate, you need to count the assumptions you're making about either side before you start, and get the numbers as close to zero as you can. He didn't do that.

Thanks for the link anyway. I'll add it to the arsenal.

Yahtzee, read that link for f's sake. To take your own statement, the author of that blog doesn't have a cock for a head, and he knows better than and can help people who do.

 

[chadachada123]

Now, Bioware is certainly at fault for falling flat here, but the precedent is still set. Games can be changed at the behest of the gamers. Then if the developer refuses, does that make them worse than Bioware then because they're not catering to their customers every demands?

The issue isn't that Bioware made a shitty ending. It's that they (the head guys) KNEW they were making a shitty ending for whatever reason but went ahead anyway.

It has nothing to do with changing at the behest of gamers, and more to do with the developers purposely slacking on the content and giving a bullshit ending rather than their own planned, decent endings.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

That being said I don't think bioware should have to remake the ending I just don't want to buy anything they sell ever again. Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2...

TL;DR fuck bioware and don't buy from them anymore.

So... what? You'll only lay down The Dolla for happy endings?

I don't mind bittersweet endings but what was the point of the game if everyone, and by everyone I mean all of galactic fleet of every combined race, and pretty much anything near a mass relay.

 

[Kanatatsu]

Yahtzee clearly missed the point, moving on.

 

[psijac]

If you want to know yathzees real feelings look at his Deus Ex:HR review

 

[weirdee]

so, you wanted a bittersweet ending, but one where nothing of actual value is lost, except for a token gesture of symbolic emotion that doesn't actually mean anything

still the disney ending, but with a tweest so that you think that it's sophisticated, even though all they did was tack it on

satisfying but not ground breaking

btw, the ending doesn't actually have everybody dying if you didn't mess up with the assets and the readiness

 

[mschweiz]

all i want is to see each major character in the last moments of battle, really

 

[anthony87]

Alright then, here's what people don't seem to be getting:

[link]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/link]

To be honest I hate putting down a link and calling it "proof" or whatever but the guy who wrote that said it all a million times better than I could.

Man, that was a great read.

It's a shame the Retake detractors can't be bothered to take articles like these in, and it's a bigger shame that the overwhelming trend among the gaming press has been to take the piss out of the upset ME3 fans among its audience, usually while missing the point completely- Yahtzee included. I'd excuse him for not really knowing jack or caring about ME3 to begin with, but if you're going to comment on a debate, you need to count the assumptions you're making about either side before you start, and get the numbers as close to zero as you can. He didn't do that.

Thanks for the link anyway. I'll add it to the arsenal.

You're....welcome?

Not sure why it's saying that Falcon was the one who wrote it but anyway it is a pretty damn good read. That little paragraph near the end about the "artistic integrity" nonsense is probably what stuck out the most for me.

 

[Candidus]

You're....welcome?

Not sure why it's saying that Falcon was the one who wrote it but anyway it is a pretty damn good read. That little paragraph near the end about the "artistic integrity" nonsense is probably what stuck out the most for me.

Whoops, that's probably my fault. I quoted it in a response that had already accumulated several quote boxes and must have deleted incorrectly. Pardons.

The bit you mention is exactly the bit that made me think "Why the hell didn't I just say that?"