Mass Effect 3 Outrage Causes Unrelated Game to Change its Ending

[Damien Granz]

I don't think this video was making the "People are mad cause the ending isn't happy" point. Just cause they had the word "happy" in there doesn't mean they're referring to the state of the ending, but the player's emotional response to it.

The message they're going for is that stories go in the direction their characters push them to go (good stories anyways), not in the direction their audiences want them to go. And while, the public can make the argument that they understand the characters, ultimately its the creators that know their creations better. ME certainly failed in its story ending, but setting the precedent that players should be able to demand the story be changed isn't going to suddenly make better video game stories.

Sure, but give the people their money back, and/or don't expect them to ever buy again, and close up shop and go home broke. Is that really better than changing the story?

Is the story so sacrosanct that it can't be changed and it's better to go home broke?

What are the options here. Honestly, weigh them.

Either people can deal with being ripped off and suck it up and open their wallets like good little piggy banks (which is what most people in this thread want), and allow BioWare infinite freedom to have both the BUSINESS it wants and the ART it wants, fuck all the rest of you. That's fine for BioWare and EA, I guess, but not exactly realistic or fair to anybody else.

Give people ways to mitigate the gamble on a new product, such as not making plot relevant pay-for DLC, not punishing used sales, offering refunds on bad products, etc.. that way they can have some of the business they want (but not all of it), and most of the art it wants (if the art is bad and you don't like it, you lose less, so you might buy more later in the hopes that next time it'll work out then, without fear of losing your whole purchase).

Give people the art they want, even if you have to make changes or sacrifice. You get all the business end you want, but you keep little of the art you want.

Or have poeple walk out on your company, and keep all the art you want, but keep NONE of the business.

Or try some combination of the above.

That's really their choices.

Many Bioware supporters here are asking for either the first (Bioware keeps everything) or the last (You walk out). Those are the worst scenarios for either the customer (in the first) or Bioware (in the latter). Those are the dumbest options.

So it makes entire sense for them to change the ending. They keep the business they want, we get the art WE want, and everybody's RELATIVELY happier.

Because, as people have said, this is the video game INDUSTRY, not the video game starving arts shed.

The only way to retain 100% creative integrity to something is not charge anybody a dime for it.

 

[ElPatron]

I'd even say it's a proper critique of Bioware's spineless reaction. If they're going to sell their integrity so readily it sets a bad standard for games as narrative media.

>make promises about upcoming game
>break those promises
>"integrity"

It's not about artistic views.

Heck, Bioware even explored a lot of relevant themes and threw them out the window so that they could wrap up the game. Does that sound like integrity?

 

[Murmillos]

Unless they do some major retcon, The Arrival DLC from ME2 clearly states that the explosion of a Mass Relay create a super nova big enough to wipe out it's star system from the face of the universe.

Of course, bioware might retcon that and say it didn't go supernova. I don't know, that's their thing. But I'm stating what we know from the ME already established canon.

Thats only the canon when a massive planetary body (very large asteroid) is slammed into a Mass Relay.

What we see at the end of ME3 is the Mass Relay discharging all of energy into a beam that shoots off towards the next Mass Relay and then with the original Mass Relay crumbling apart in scattered explosions.

So they look like two VERY different events.

 

[jpoon]

Oh man, that's pretty funny. I haven't beat frozen synapse yet because I'm not very got at it but dang if I don't wanna try again now just to see the new ending (I didn't watch the linked video so I didn't spoil it for myself). Now I know the new ending is probably not that great but can anyone let me know if the original ending was better?

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Just change the ending. Game development is a collaborative effort, why not take input from the people that matter, your fans. People need to stop defending Bioware, they fucked up and need to fix it. That ending is not art, Mordin's death was art, Grunts last stand was art. These things evoked emotions, the ending evoked nothing and then because of that nothingness people became angry.

Because under no circumstance are you actually part of the creative process. The choices you made throughout those games were designed BY BIOWARE. There is only one type of art where the consumers/fanbase gets a part in creating it: bad art.

No we are not, but if the owner of a restoraunt punches you in the face with absolutely no reason whatsover, you will inquire and go "WTF, Man?" and consequently demand at least an explanation or more to the point an apology.

The ending betrays the entire game series, destroys all essence of art that Mass Effect carried, which smells like Bioware rushed it out for no discernable reason, I'm not pointing fingers at the culprits who pressured Bioware(I'm looking at you EA), but people STILL.DESERVE.AN.EXPLANATION.

I always love the metaphors the "pro-change" crowd comes up with lol. The game didn't physically assault you, and the ending of the game doesn't necessarily betray anything the game stood for.

Oh I beg to differ:http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
Reason 2 if you must know.
And yes it didn't physically assault me, but that would've hurt less than a rushed out, plothole-full ending to a game series spanning 5 years.

 

[Sarge034]

BioWare did write a good game, a great game, it impacted me more than the previous games. It is just that there are a small group of people that didn't get exactly what they wanted. I can say that I have have never read, watched, or played a story that had all of its loose ends tided up.

I am truly happy for you, but some of us feel differently for different reasons. Most of us are disappointed with all the plot holes made in the last 15 min of the game and the lack of closure. A sad ending is fine, but don't make plot holes to do it.

Spoiler: For example...

Tali was my love interest and she was with me when I run the gauntlet to the citadel. Supposedly everyone except Shep and Anderson die running the gauntlet, so how did she make it back to the Normandy for the "stranded scene"?

There is also all of the things lies they said about the game before it was released.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886 (complete list)

Spoiler: My favorites are...

>Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome."

>Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't
say any more than that..."

and for the finally...

>Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] "Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?"

Hudson: "Yeah, and I'd say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don't have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we're taking into account so many
decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them."

As for there being a "small group of people" disappointed with the game....
http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/
I never really thought of 61,083 people as being a "small group of people". This is only one of many polls, petitions, etc. Not to mention how many unhappy people have not voted but will refuse to do business with Bioware now. Just sayin...

 

[Agente L]

Unless they do some major retcon, The Arrival DLC from ME2 clearly states that the explosion of a Mass Relay create a super nova big enough to wipe out it's star system from the face of the universe.

Of course, bioware might retcon that and say it didn't go supernova. I don't know, that's their thing. But I'm stating what we know from the ME already established canon.

Thats only the canon when a massive planetary body (very large asteroid) is slammed into a Mass Relay.

What we see at the end of ME3 is the Mass Relay discharging all of energy into a beam that shoots off towards the next Mass Relay and then with the original Mass Relay crumbling apart in scattered explosions.

So they look like two VERY different events.

That end in the same thing; The destruction of the mass relay.

 

[Murmillos]

Unless they do some major retcon, The Arrival DLC from ME2 clearly states that the explosion of a Mass Relay create a super nova big enough to wipe out it's star system from the face of the universe.

Of course, bioware might retcon that and say it didn't go supernova. I don't know, that's their thing. But I'm stating what we know from the ME already established canon.

Thats only the canon when a massive planetary body (very large asteroid) is slammed into a Mass Relay.

What we see at the end of ME3 is the Mass Relay discharging all of energy into a beam that shoots off towards the next Mass Relay and then with the original Mass Relay crumbling apart in scattered explosions.

So they look like two VERY different events.

That end in the same thing; The destruction of the mass relay.

But the destruction of the Mass Relay doesnt always lead to a super nova. It just happened in once case.

 

[Charli]

It's amazing seeing the comments under this video completely misunderstanding the whole thing =)

Isn't it? I laughed.

I do love studios making light of things like this, keeps everyone a bit more entertained.

 

[AbstractStream]

Yeah, I didn't like ME3's ending, yadda yadda.
But the fact is that this video was actually amusing.

 

[Itsthefuzz]

Just change the ending. Game development is a collaborative effort, why not take input from the people that matter, your fans. People need to stop defending Bioware, they fucked up and need to fix it. That ending is not art, Mordin's death was art, Grunts last stand was art. These things evoked emotions, the ending evoked nothing and then because of that nothingness people became angry.

fans are just that, fans.

you do not work for Bioware, you have no input on how their game should be.


Honestly, everyone who is arguing that Bioware fucked the ending is a bit of a hypocrite, where was the rage for Black Ops?

Where was the "Baww, we hate Day 1 DLC but will pay money to a third party to demand a new ending" for Battlefield 3.

Where the fuck was everyone for fucking Kotor and Dragon Age?


While people are claiming its the worst game ever made, me and my 15 friends on XBL are still enjoying it.

Black Ops was not the end to a trilogy that previously had amazing storylines, Battlefield 3 largely had a perfectly fine ending and had no story based or useful DLC. Kotor and Dragon Age had great endings. All of your points are stupid and I can tell that you've never played/liked Mass Effect.

>checks XBL mini profile in Escapist Magazine profile

>sees Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 in recently played list

> mfw

I don't see how that face negates the fact that your list of examples were really, really pointless and stupid.

 

[nathan-dts]

Just change the ending. Game development is a collaborative effort, why not take input from the people that matter, your fans. People need to stop defending Bioware, they fucked up and need to fix it. That ending is not art, Mordin's death was art, Grunts last stand was art. These things evoked emotions, the ending evoked nothing and then because of that nothingness people became angry.

fans are just that, fans.

you do not work for Bioware, you have no input on how their game should be.


Honestly, everyone who is arguing that Bioware fucked the ending is a bit of a hypocrite, where was the rage for Black Ops?

Where was the "Baww, we hate Day 1 DLC but will pay money to a third party to demand a new ending" for Battlefield 3.

Where the fuck was everyone for fucking Kotor and Dragon Age?


While people are claiming its the worst game ever made, me and my 15 friends on XBL are still enjoying it.

Black Ops was not the end to a trilogy that previously had amazing storylines, Battlefield 3 largely had a perfectly fine ending and had no story based or useful DLC. Kotor and Dragon Age had great endings. All of your points are stupid and I can tell that you've never played/liked Mass Effect.

>checks XBL mini profile in Escapist Magazine profile

>sees Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 in recently played list

Doesn't change the fact that your points don't even remotely fit in the context of Mass Effect.

 

[Somebloke]

...
So would you say maybe, that Mass Effect 3 is being treated differently to many other games due to a culmination of many reasons that run deeper than it's Deus Ex Machina ending? That many don't just feel cheated, but actively exploited? Or am I just speaking out of my arse? - can/has/does happen.

I am sure there are a few, maybe even quite a few. :7
At least I feel a bit of that and I'm as likely as anybody to project my own impressions on everybody else.

I wouldn't say it's different treatment, so much as a culimination.

The industry giants have for a long time moved in several directions that are of questionable advantage to their paying customers, which has garnered them critisism from a few outspoken individuals and a bit of a "record label" reputation among the gaming public at large.



There is a pattern that is common in all industries:

- A small innovative company strikes gold, by offering great products/services.

- A large concern buys the small company and begins to tamper, not least of all with its core business, in order to maximise profit.

- Customers leave, since the products/services that were so popular are now gone.

- The failing company is shut down, by executives that are either too arrogant to see that it was their own meddling that caused the downfall, or were only looking for an excuse to keep it out of the hands of competitors, in the first place and never had any intention on keeping it running. Either way they now have the trademark and are happy enough with that.



I'm sure each of us associate most of the big publishers with at least one such event. That is part of their bad image.

Bioware has a very loyal fanbase owing to a fine track record.
To somebody like an EA executive the idea of "acquiring" such a group of "evangelist" customers must be very tempting.
What he may not realise, or at least not see as a bad thing, is the "taint" that comes with his own self. It doesn't even need to be true, as long as people at all associate him with destructive business practices.

Market experimentation has been performed by every major publisher, over time and, as mentioned above, there have been a precious few outspoken critics, who have pointed out some of the less customer-friendly aspects of this or that venture -- most of the time talking to deaf ears.

Bioware under EA has not really seen more of underhand market tactics sneaking in, than others, but this is where the expectations of the fanbase comes in.
Since Bioware has earned their marks and their following, producing very formulaic games, odd things like DLC-peddling NPCs and gameplay "streamlining" stands out more, than it might elsewhere, because they break the template.

The Mass Effect series has actually seen a gradual tonal shift over the entire series, in addition to the recent turnabout; e.g. going from cheesy-space-opera-with-trace-amounts-of-hard-scifi in ME1 to cheesier-comic-book-adventure in ME2. This is probably just innocent response to select feedback and a desire to appeal to a larger audience and some pandering here and there, but it all accumulates in the back of your mind.

While a huge swath of fans will defend anything the developer does and the more libertarian ones will defend anything the publisher does, some will recognise the pattern mentioned above and begin to worry about the direction the the company they "love" is taking and its life expectancy - they may even start listening to the storm crows.

Little changes compound - it's not just Bioware, it's the industry, but ME3 does have something of a special place, given the vested history that players have with the first two acts of its story and then you have the igniting spark. ...and such a spark it is.


Oh dear, sorry about the novel.

 

[4173]

I really dislike the ending. It was poorly conceptualized, poorly planned, poorly explained, and lazy. It was a weird tonal shift from the rest of the series on many levels. It was a clusterfuck of bad marketing. War assets are a boondoggle on a massive scale.

The best thing that could theoretically be said about it, is that it was supposed to be a statement deconstructing video games and action heroes, but if that was the case, why aren't they defending that more forcefully?





Bioware should not change a thing about the ending.

People must start to understand that saying that they should and saying that they shouldn't is exactly the same thing.

Somebody worried about artistic integrity must say that Bioware should access the criticism and do whatever they want to.

Sorry, I thought that was implicit. [I don't think] Bioware should change a thing about the ending, as a direct result of my current dissatisfaction. My opinion is not more important (on an artistic level) than their own (on a consumer level, obviously, my opinion is law).

 

[Smeggs]

Of course, future game designers could avoid having to "sabotage" their work - no matter what precedent has been set - by writing good games. I know that's a bit of an extreme concept, but just putting it out there...

But how dare we ask for what we were promised? Fans should just shut up and take it.

"Shit sandwhich tastes great."

 

[boag]

Just change the ending. Game development is a collaborative effort, why not take input from the people that matter, your fans. People need to stop defending Bioware, they fucked up and need to fix it. That ending is not art, Mordin's death was art, Grunts last stand was art. These things evoked emotions, the ending evoked nothing and then because of that nothingness people became angry.

Because under no circumstance are you actually part of the creative process. The choices you made throughout those games were designed BY BIOWARE. There is only one type of art where the consumers/fanbase gets a part in creating it: bad art.

Anyway, this is some mighty trolling. Heck, I'd even say it's a proper critique of Bioware's spineless reaction. If they're going to sell their integrity so readily it sets a bad standard for games as narrative media.

All art is subjective, there is not such thing as good or bad art.

 

[Sarge034]

Hey look, yet another group that's chosen willful ignorance of the heart of an issue over actually addressing it. Classy.

I can't read your post without hearing it in Bender's voice. Son... I am impress. I also agree with you.

 

[Denamic]

Makes an argument that completely misses the point; ends up pissing off ME3 ending naysayers as well as his own fans for no good reason.
Nice.

 

[Joccaren]

You know what?
I respect this.

He did it as an experiment to see how he'd feel about changing his ending, and not to send a message. Finally, someone involving themselves and taking a far more neutral standing.

Of course, I would point out that this definitely would feel like defacing his own work as he went out of his way to do just that - ponies with troll faces rather than writing a good and satisfying ending - but I'll respect his findings.