Mass Effect 3 will be incomplete

[Freechoice]

http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/q2sl2/i_am_jessica_merizan_community_manager_for/?sort=hot more proof you wrong about the dlc enjoy now since its pointless to continue unless this finally makes you see the light i'll see you when the game comes out when we'll see who's right

Ive posted that same link on about 5 threads with copy-pastad quotes from the person herself and everyone ignores it, lets hope they read it when you pst it.

We're not ignoring it; we're all following the same threads and we see it posted twice in every single one of them.
It also reeks of marketing propaganda, so some of the more cynical members won't put a great deal of faith in it.

Better to believe baseless conspiracies then the words of the people who made the game?

yeah i know a lot of people prefer that.

Hell of a lot more fun.

 

[ThriKreen]

You know, people keep using this sliced up Mona Lisa image to try to show what the industry is doing, but it is incorrect about the whole thing.

I really should create a more accurate analogy/reflection of the dev process. I normally use the cake/muffin analogy, but I can change it around for painting as well - a lot of the background processes are similar.

 

[Still Life]

You know, people keep using this sliced up Mona Lisa image to try to show what the industry is doing, but it is incorrect about the whole thing.

I really should create a more accurate analogy/reflection of the dev process. I normally use the cake/muffin analogy, but I can change it around for painting as well - a lot of the background processes are similar.

Jury is still out for me when it comes to DLC policies -- specifically in relation to Mass Effect 3. However, I really don't see how using Mona Lisa is an accurate comparison to game development.

 

[ThriKreen]

Oh sweet. you're back. Can you explain to me how leaks mentioning the prothean character in nov/dece mesh with your "gold period" theory.

And what theory is this?

I don't recall ever listing anything as a theory, I've only outlined what usually happens during the latter part of the dev process, since I've gone through this process several times. Unlike people who are just making guesses on forums. But if you really need a refresher:

Content lockdown, think of it as the alpha stage, most stuff is done, just buggy. Obviously, lockdown means no new stuff is added (hard to bug fix a moving target after all) and takes about 2-4 months to polish and finalize ports to other platforms if a multi-platform release. This is usually where you only require a skeleton crew to handle it, so most of the other content makers go off to make another game, DLC (or get laid off). You normally don't see studios announcing this.

Content complete can be thought of as the beta stage, where it is mostly done, and sent to the publishers and console makers for their in-house testing and certification. Cert usually takes 2-3 months, as their testers hammer on the game to make sure it works on the hardware, it up to spec, and often takes several release candidate submissions to iron everything out.

When all that is done is when you hear of the "game has gone gold!" announcements - meaning it has passed certification, and is being sent to factories to be pressed into discs. Appears in stores about 2-3 weeks later, since you have to deal with the logistics of shipping delays and all that to make sure it's in all stores on the release day.

So if you want to take ME3's twitter announcements, we have the announcements of gold a couple weeks ago, a tweet of content complete in January was it? So one can surmise that the lockdown might have been in September time frame?

It could happen faster or it could take longer, it depends on how versed the team is with the dev flow. 'Awesome Game 1' with 'Brand Spanking New Engine 1' will obviously take longer to bug fix compared to 'Sequel Chapter 3'.

And judging from the Reddit AMA, it appears the character in question is in the game and already conveys the necessary plot critical information. The optional DLC just enables him to be a squad member.

 

[ThriKreen]

However, I really don't see how using Mona Lisa is an accurate comparison to game development.

Because most of the time DLC is more akin to having some extra cans of paint and canvas left over after the main painting is done. Or even better, say da Vinci did several sketches on scrap paper of what he wanted the final painting to look like in various poses (i.e. cut content from the game), and after he was done, decided to fill in those alternate views and offer them as postcards.

Or in the cake analogy, left over ingredients, so they made some muffins.

And in the case of retailer exclusives, obviously they want to get more sales than their competitors, so they offer money to the publisher and developer for it to entice the consumer to buy from them instead of the other. Game development is not cheap after all, and most of the exclusives are usually cosmetic stuff so pretty easy and quick to slap out.

 

[ThriKreen]

Alright, we are clear then. the prothean had to be developed by september or nov/dec in the content "lockdown" mode, since its of great importance to the plot. Now the new hot thing is to say the character is there, the ability to use as a squadmate isn't. I've yet to see anything offical about this. It's all just people going off the mouths. I was arguing one moment how relevant it is, then the next is about how "its relevant but this certain ability isn't". If you have the redit "ama" avaliable, I'd like to see.

Link. [http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/q2sl2/i_am_jessica_merizan_community_manager_for/c3uan1h] and the response [http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/q2sl2/i_am_jessica_merizan_community_manager_for/c3ubuy4] - Obviously nothing confirmed, but it strongly hints like that's the case.

 

[Loop Stricken]

By the by, I've just been given a link to some sort of petition to have this ridiculous DLC made free to all.

http://www.change.org/petitions/bioware-release-the-day-1-dlc-for-mass-effect-3-as-free-content-for-all-buyers

Sign it if you like.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Found this today. Relevant to conversation. Enjoy.

 

[SajuukKhar]

This Mona Lisa picture is not how DLC works

THIS is how DLc works

 

[ThriKreen]

If you worked as a software developer you will also know that there will be a project management plan really early on, where features are planned, locked down according to their importance and assigned to different teams within the project.

The issue is that Zeel has the belief that the plot critical content is deliberately cut for Day 1 release.

Of course, until we actually get the game and play it, with and without said DLC, we won't know for sure. Not like it's stopping him from jumping around posting his guesses as if it was fact.

I can't comment on LA Noire, since I haven't played it nor its DLC.

I have never in my life seen any game where they did this. I would like to know how the heck they would pull that off. I can make 3 different reasonable plot lines on top of my head to how the prothean char would be an extra of the fans, but I cannot see how the heck you can make him vital and still sell the game.

Well, as stated, it hints that the NPC is in the game and conveys the necessary information, the DLC just makes him a usable squadmate. It's not like they cut out the last boss and forced you to pay an extra $10.

 

[boag]

. He just keeps rehashing the same thing over and over again like my fucking grandmother on thanksgiven.

Arent you technically doing the same thing?

 

[boag]

You know what makes me even more sad than the kind of business practices Bioware has chosen to take part in?
That there are actually so many people falling for and accepting their explanation. I could even accept if some people would just simply say "I don't care that they're ripping me off, I'm going to get it anyway", but this mass delusion is seriously something else.
How exactly are people getting ripped off?

Can you not play the game to completion? without all the bells and whistles that the DLC offer?

Those "DLCs" are being set into stone very early in the project management cycle, not only the "Day1-DLC" ones, but even the ones that are set to release 1 or 2 months after Release, they're making a product plan detailing the release schedule and every piece of content, including when they announce it and when it is going to get released, anything other than minor things like "extra skins" are planned out well ahead of release.

and this is bad because?


Story and dialogues around those DLCs are being written and recorded at the same time as the rest of the content, it would (fiscally) not make very much sense to have to go back into the studio and hire all the (high-profile, high-cost) voice actors back for a few extra sentences.
Indeed, and this is a bad business practice because?


Examples for this with Mass Effect 3 are also rather obvious seeing as said character is all over the leaked script and as people already mentioned they announced him like 7 months or so ago without giving any details, there was also concept art and sound bits a long time ago.
Yeah I agree, and now the character doesnt even have shit to do with the main plot, when you ask him about the mcguffin he goes "the what now?"


Why they're constantly repeated that it is a "different team" working on it I don't know... yes there are a lot of different teams working on a lot of different aspects of the games (and different areas) at any given time during the development of such a game, you're not going to find 100+ people all working together on something.
I agree, there are a lot of assumptions being made in this argument, can you point me to where you got your info about the development of Mass Effect 3 please.


In regards to the people saying that they only do DLC after the game has "gone gold", THINK about it... they announced they achieved gold status and are ready for pressing on 13.02: http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/16557/mass-effect-3-has-achieved-gold-master-status-finally-ready-for-pressing , the full DLC leaked on Xbox Live on 20.02: http://kotaku.com/5887092/mass-effect-3-dlc-pops-up-early-on-xbox-marketplace-spoils-plot-point , do you REALLY think that they did all the work on this in one week, I mean REALLY?
No, they didnt do the work in 1 week thats preposturous, like you mentioned before they were already working on it, they planned ahead, and focused resources and teams to work on it while not working on the main game.



What's happening here is big companies that have noticed they can monetize certain parts of their games better and are becoming ever so more brazen in their attempts to do so, at least a few people in the industry like Kotick are outright saying it:

In the last cycle of videogames you spent $50 on a game, played it and took it back to the shop for credit. Today, we?ll (charge) $100 for a guitar. You might add a microphone or drums; you might buy two or three expansions packs, different types of music. Over the life of your ownership you?ll probably buy around 25 additional song packs in digital downloads. So, what used to be a $50 sale is a $500 sale today.

Yeah, funny thing is what Kotick doesnt say is that in the game cycles before that, games cost 80 dollars a piece, you couldnt get a straight up review that didnt come from the Company itself, and in the worst case scenarios, you had to buy a very expensive and shitty peripheral that only worked with THE ONE GAME. kinda like the PS2 Harddrive, the N64 expanded memory shit, the Sega CD and 32x, Nintendos Rob and so on.

Aside from that it wouldn't even really matter if the content is done before or after release, Shale and Zaeed were "Downloadable Content" via a Code in every box too, free for everyone buying new, the same code is part of every Mass Effect 3 CE (I guess it means "Complete Edition" rather than "Collector's Edition" in this context) and it could also be part of every single SE without any major change to any code on the disk...
And your point is?

It seriously almost hurts my brain that there are people out there actually buying that they're doing this "extra content" for anything else than fleecing their customers.

I hope you feel better soon, you care waaaaaaaaay too much about what stupid people do with their money.

Especially since they've been so thorough with Mass Effect 3 to make that abundantly clear for everyone:
- Important Day-15 Pay-DLC: http://kotaku.com/5887092/mass-effect-3-dlc-pops-up-early-on-xbox-marketplace-spoils-plot-point

What plot point?

- Collector's Edition/Deluxe Edition with even more Exklusive In-Game Content (Bonus Mission + Character, Arsenal Pack, Hoodie, Robot Dog, Squad Appearence Pack)
- Several different Pre-Order Bonuses from a varying amount of Retailers and Online

Gee, giving extra stuff to people that want to PAY for extra stuff, that sure sounds evil

Distribution platforms like Origin, e.g. AT-12 Raider Shotgun or Warfare Gear etc.
I can agree that origin is a piece of shit and I was bothered when it asked me to sign in on xbox, but hey, it didnt install jack shit, so I guess I dodged that bullet.

- Cross-Game Promotion to Demo of another game (Kingdom of Amalur for Launcher Weapon + Armor)
OMG you have to play a FREE demo for a decent looking game to get FREE swag on a game you want to play, THOSE EVIL FUCKING BASTARDS!!!!!!

- iOS Game [http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/8/2784069/mass-effect-infiltrator-ios-infiltrator] as "tie-in", that can supposedly alter your progress in Mass Effect 3

Yeah man supposedly you cant even finish the game without finishing the IOS thing, I heard it from a guy on the internet. /sarcasm

- The game as a whole was pushed back because EA demanded a Multiplayer-Mode for all of its games [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-04-ea-multiplayer-now-an-expectation], respective there's now an "Online-Pass".

I had my complaints about the adding of Multi to the game, and guess what? Its the best thing about the demo.

- Additional Exclusive Bonus DLC with the different Action figures, "Collect all 8 for the full experience!" [http://kotaku.com/5878284/mass-effect-will-set-a-record-for-most-expensive-dlc], the Liara figure [http://www.tomopop.com/toy-fair-2012-up-close-with-kotobukiya-s-bishoujo-liara-23395.phtml]

are you implying the Figurine Dlcs are an important part of the game?


and a whole bunch of Razer Hardware [http://www.razerzone.com/me3]
- I could bet that before or shortly after release there's going to be even more stuff offering additional DLC or content, maybe including Dr. Pepper Codes and another one of them Facebook games or something similar.

and this is bad because?

Whoever still believes that they're doing all this with "good intentions" and it's not just a pure marketing stunt to press as much money from their existing customer base is imo blind...

I agree with you here, anyone that does is not only blind but stupid, could you please point out the people that have said this, so I can laugh at them?

if one cares about it so much that one doesn't buy the game is left to every single individual and I for one decided to cancel my SW:TOR subscription and not buy Mass Effect 3, but this mass delusion is really starting to get on my nutsack.

have you stopped to think about how the people that have to hear the constant "OMG THE PROTHEAN IS DLC GAME RUINED" feel? Im sure you have more in common than you think.

These publishers are taking it ever one step further, in Assassin's Creed II, they cut out an entire chapter near the end of the game to release it as DLC. Same thing happened with L.A. Noire as there were several (5 I think) "cases" with main story plot-points in them as well as dialogue that were "Pre-Order Bonuses" and DLC to buy later on. In Mafia2 they cut out a few characters and "Free-Roam" gameplay they showed before to add it later as DLC. "Arrival" for Mass Effect 2 came close as it's supposed to close the gap between it and the third part.
"The Missing Link" for Deus Ex: Human Revolution ties loose ends that would let the ending of the original game make more sense, same thing with the "Sebastian" DLC for Dragon Age 2.
And there's always also the thing with the "on-disc" DLC, Capcom for instance is famously known for by selling "unlock codes" to stuff that is already on the disc.

By buying into this kind of business practice you are legitimizing it and are green-lighting them to do something even worse the next time and are making gaming as a whole more expensive and worse for everyone involved than the publishers themselves...

I cannot make a comment on the games other than mass effect, because ive never even bothered with the titles you mentioned, it seems to me that you have been getting boned by this thing for a long while, My question to you is why did you keep buying it if you were being constantly ripped off?

 

[boag]

This Mona Lisa picture is not how DLC works

THIS is how DLc works

I love that chart.

 

[boag]

Oh sweet. you're back. Can you explain to me how leaks mentioning the prothean character in nov/dece mesh with your "gold period" theory.

And what theory is this?

I don't recall ever listing anything as a theory, I've only outlined what usually happens during the latter part of the dev process, since I've gone through this process several times. Unlike people who are just making guesses on forums. But if you really need a refresher:

Content lockdown, think of it as the alpha stage, most stuff is done, just buggy. Obviously, lockdown means no new stuff is added (hard to bug fix a moving target after all) and takes about 2-4 months to polish and finalize ports to other platforms if a multi-platform release. This is usually where you only require a skeleton crew to handle it, so most of the other content makers go off to make another game, DLC (or get laid off). You normally don't see studios announcing this.

Content complete can be thought of as the beta stage, where it is mostly done, and sent to the publishers and console makers for their in-house testing and certification. Cert usually takes 2-3 months, as their testers hammer on the game to make sure it works on the hardware, it up to spec, and often takes several release candidate submissions to iron everything out.

When all that is done is when you hear of the "game has gone gold!" announcements - meaning it has passed certification, and is being sent to factories to be pressed into discs. Appears in stores about 2-3 weeks later, since you have to deal with the logistics of shipping delays and all that to make sure it's in all stores on the release day.

So if you want to take ME3's twitter announcements, we have the announcements of gold a couple weeks ago, a tweet of content complete in January was it? So one can surmise that the lockdown might have been in September time frame?

It could happen faster or it could take longer, it depends on how versed the team is with the dev flow. 'Awesome Game 1' with 'Brand Spanking New Engine 1' will obviously take longer to bug fix compared to 'Sequel Chapter 3'.

And judging from the Reddit AMA, it appears the character in question is in the game and already conveys the necessary plot critical information. The optional DLC just enables him to be a squad member.

Alright, we are clear then. the prothean had to be developed by september or nov/dec in the content "lockdown" mode, since its of great importance to the plot. Now the new hot thing is to say the character is there, the ability to use as a squadmate isn't. I've yet to see anything offical about this. It's all just people going off the mouths. I was arguing one moment how relevant it is, then the next is about how "its relevant but this certain ability isn't". If you have the redit "ama" avaliable, I'd like to see.

Here you go, this is all the interaction the Prothean has to the main plot

Spoiler

Prothean: ...you found one of our beacons. You saw it happen... our destruction... our warnings... Why weren't they heeded? Why didn't you prepare for the Reapers, human?
Shepard: It's 'Commander'. And nobody could understand your warnings. The beacon nearly killed me!
Prothean: Then communication is still primitive in this cycle. You can't absorb knowledge as we did.
Liara: Shepard can.
Prothean: Then the extinction was delayed?
Shepard: We pieced together what we could - and used it to stop a Reaper invasion three years ago. Now we have your plans for the Crucible. We've started building it.
Prothean: 'Crucible'?
Liara: The weapon your people were working on. I'd hoped you could tell us how to finish it.
Prothean: So much has been lost. So much I don't know. I was a soldier, not a scientist. Skilled in one art: killing. When it was clear our war was lost, I was chosen to go forward to the next cycle.
Shepard: What was your mission?
Prothean: Among my people, there were...avatars of many traits: bravery, strength, cunning. A single exemplar for each.
Shepard: Which are you?
Prothean: The embodiment of vengeance. I am the anger of a dead people, demanding blood be spilled for the blood we lost. Only when the last Reaper has been destroyed will my purpose be fulfilled. I have no other reason to exist. Those who share my purpose become allies. Those who do not become casualties. Do you agree, Commander?
Shepard: I'd say you found an ally. The only goal we have on this ship is wiping the Reapers from existence.

 

[Awexsome]

The people claiming that this Prothean is very important to the plot should really get me an inside tour at Bioware since they obviously work there since it's the only way they could know this.

I like that picture above about the "gamers' view of development vs the reality". It's not just every single person in the game working on the exact same thing with everyone on the same page of what they're doing today. Once the game is deep into production what do the writers have left to do? Make new stories obviously. Shorter ones that would take less time to finish perhaps?

Then as more people finish their touches on the game they get to work on their portion of the DLC. Finally over the course of those months after the game goes gold everyone needed will have a chance to work on it. They didn't scrap it together over the course of a month or two.

And you have to pay for it because they worked on it. If someone can acknowledge the process is what it is and still demand everything done to be given for free then they are nothing less than entitled. Simple as that.

 

[SajuukKhar]

No the pictures AREN'T anywhere close to the same thing.

Your claims that content is deliberately removed from the base game in order to sell it to you at a later time.

The other picture shows content being made ALONGSIDE the base game.

Also while my picture may not be 100% accurate it is far more accurate then yours.

 

[00slash00]

true, it is mostly speculation. but given the significance of that race to the story of the game and its lore, it seems like it would likely be a really important character and could provide a lot of answers. game companies have done shit like this before, like final fantasy 13-2 making one of the endings of the game, dlc

No, stop!
You're assuming ontop of your speculation, just because he's prothean doesn't mean they will have major significance on the game not one bit.
Your OP was clearly hyping up something you don't even know is certified as fact, stop this shit right now.

Also it's not "incomplete" at all, again stop that.

haha alright first of all, calm down. secondly, speculation and assumption are pretty much the same thing. as i said to someone else, when i say incomplete i mean the lore and story. the gameplay of mass effect is okay but nothing special. what makes the series good is the lore and the story and considering the protheins are an extinct race that are pretty much the reason your character is special, its pretty hard to imagine that it wouldnt be important to the lore or the story.

what bothers me is not that this is day 1 dlc. what bothers me is that it seems like the character would likely be important to lore and making people pay extra just to be able to see the whole story is not acceptable to me. now some people have pointed out that the character will be in the game either way and if thats true then fine, i could not care less about an extra character sitting in the background and never getting used. however, i have seen many responses from bioware about this whole thing and they have explain the day 1 dlc part of it, but i have yet to see anything about whether or not the dlc is important to mass effect lore or to the overall story

 

[Lyri]

haha alright first of all, calm down. secondly, speculation and assumption are pretty much the same thing. as i said to someone else, when i say incomplete i mean the lore and story. the gameplay of mass effect is okay but nothing special. what makes the series good is the lore and the story and considering the protheins are an extinct race that are pretty much the reason your character is special, its pretty hard to imagine that it wouldnt be important to the lore or the story.

what bothers me is not that this is day 1 dlc. what bothers me is that it seems like the character would likely be important to lore and making people pay extra just to be able to see the whole story is not acceptable to me. now some people have pointed out that the character will be in the game either way and if thats true then fine, i could not care less about an extra character sitting in the background and never getting used. however, i have seen many responses from bioware about this whole thing and they have explain the day 1 dlc part of it, but i have yet to see anything about whether or not the dlc is important to mass effect lore or to the overall story

It's not, the Prothean is in the game either way. The DLC is just one extra mission so you can make him your squad mate, better now?

 

[Hattingston]

You realise there's something like three threads on this topic on the first page alone, right?

As for the actual subject...

We don't know what role the DLC character plays. How do you know he is a "vital part of the lore" any more than, say, Kasumi? All the angry guy in your absurdly long video says is, "He's a fucking Prothean!" Because that's all he knows about it.

Personally, I'll be getting it free with the special edition thingy anyway which, thanks to Australia's bizarre pricing, was cheaper for me than buying retail.

Consider the alternative, if s/he's not a vital part of the story it will feel like shoehorned in dlc trying to make a quick buck simply because of the other Protheans' significance to the story. If s/he is a vital part of the story, then those who purchase a standard edition of the game do not get the game in full. Bioware has to choose between milking the fans or screwing them. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

What I cant understand is the whole 'free for the collectors edition only' thing. Why not make it free for the people who bought the game new? like the Creberus network. No one really bitched about that.