TLDR: Geek guys like geek girls, especially geek girls that in comparison, make them feel all manly.xvbones said:
That's pretty much the reason. Anything else is rationalization.
Mass effect gets hi-res tex- wait...zomg Tali's face!
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That's pretty much the reason. Anything else is rationalization.
Woah, woah, calm yourself, my man.xvbones said:
I think that the overall reason so many people love Tali is because she is fragile. Here's the player; Big, Bad Commander Shepard who can kill anything, and here's Tali whose portrayed as sweet and innocent and someone who the player is supposed to want to protect (if they go down that route with her).
When Ashley is a racist *****, Liara has become rather cynical, and the only other option is Miranda, the biggest *****, or Jack whose basically a man in all but physical appearance...is it any wonder so many people flock to Tali in the romance section?
ImmortalDrifter said:
Better than 50%? No. For that matter science has identified the likely cause for homosexuality. Everyone is not, despite the popular conception, "a little gay". Being able to recognize that some one else is or isn't attractive does not mean you'd want to fuck them if not for society. That is a very distinct line. There is a very real biological reason for that "wiring" that has nothing to to with social mores but instead with in-vitro stress. He is actually correct in his assertion that sexuality as we know it, along the current spectrum would exist. This is not a judgment on anyone, simply a scientific fact:Bara_no_Hime said:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3812874
http://viewzone2.com/homosexual.html
http://memory.syr.edu/jennifer/teaching/class_articles/Obel03.pdf
That asides people are freaking out because they don't see certain actors in the voice actors trailer. Well we don't see Brandon Keener and we know he's Garrus. that does not mean he is gone or replaced. And with that knowledge I hold out hope, perhaps optimistically, that we'll be hearing our old pals with their old voices, again.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839558/fullcredits#cast
Yvonne is listed as Miranda Lawson though there is, troublingly, no Mordin listing.
I thought "Would Not Bang" memes were supposed to have a score and be contained in the one image?Sarge034 said:Also I will say two things about Miranda and you will never be able to look at her the same way again.
She has chicklet front teeth.
Her forehead is waaaaaaaaay out of proportion. I think Cerberus engineered her to serve as an aircraft carrier in times of need. I'm serious, I think I could land a plane on it.
This is the best pic I could find. It is the official box art, so that's something. In the game if the camera is pointed directly art her it is ok, but as soon as the camera looks up at her I start looking for inbound aircraft.
I used to love Kelly, but then she left me for Urz.xvbones said:
First of all, the situation with her daughter was not as simple as "stop the bad girl". Ardat-Yakshi have two choices due to their addictive condition: Flee from justicars for the chance to live a free life filled with murder or live forever in isolation from the rest of the world for thousands of years. Besides murdering her daughter for not wanting to isolate herself from everything else, she was not able to find an alternate option and took responsibility and I suppose her dedication to stopping her is respecta, but that's not entirely the point.boag said:
The difficulty of becoming a justicar doesn't mean anything. There is only one rule Justicars follow, the Justicar code. To them when they follow the code, they are just. When they do not, they are not. They have no mind of their own, aren't able to think and differentiate between what's right and wrong, they don't analyze a situation and pick the best course of action. All they do is kill anyone who did something wrong in any way, disregarding everything else.
There is no grey, there is only right or wrong. They don't look into matters (why certain events unfold), as that may actually force them to think for themselves. And when they are somehow unable to continue with their duties, they'll kill whoever stands in their way, even if these captors are kind of heart and enforcers of their own laws themselves.
They don't give the slightest shit about the situation. If someone broke the code, they must die, regardless of any possible ulterior motive. All they think about is some fucking code and will do anything within their power to stay active. I hate Samara, I hate everything the justicar stand for and I wouldn't mind if this group disappeared from the face of the earth forever.
But the Difficulty to become a Justicar is the point, Samara wasnt a Justicar until after her daughter fled, she made the choice and commitment to become a Justicar, knowing full well what it would entail.SpaceBat said:
Also, Justicars dont go out of Asari space, it was a rare event for Samara to travel outside, and most of the Asari know they arent supposed to fuck around with Justicars.
In any event you may hate the organization but hating on Samara is uncalled for, if anything she is a tragic character, when she kills Morinth she completely knows why she had to do it and is heartborken because of it, I would not call that Morally bankrupt.
And you dont have to worry about the organization, they arent anywhere near earth.
I'm going to be serious for a moment and say that what you have just described is what a police officer is meant to be.SpaceBat said:
You have not actually described moral bankruptcy, what you've described is pure lawful.
The Justicars, like their names suggest, have a strict and all-encompassing set of laws that they will follow, regardless of personal or emotional concerns, there is a right and a wrong, their code is that right and all else, for them, is wrong.
Their personal lives or feelings or whatever do not matter, these women appear to hunt monsters, they cannot really allow for such things. Look at Samara, she is hunting her daughter who is, let's face it, a serial murderer who has absolutely no interest or intention of stopping, ever. She doesn't even try to lay low and not kill people by fucking them, she takes obvious delight in her predations.
You can sugar-coat it until it resembles a glazed donut, Morinth was a terrible monster and needed to be stopped. We have literally no way of knowing how many hundreds of lives Morinth ate and it does not matter, we saw the aftermath. That girl's mother is wrecked. She will likely never trust anyone, ever again, she has been shown by the universe how small and insignificant she was when a space monster showed up and ate her daughter, for no reason.
Now, in the story itself, Samara takes responsibility for her monster, she hunts her daughter down and kills her, because it was just, because her daughter was evil, because someone needed to stop this from happening. And she did. And it was obviously the hardest thing Samara has ever had to do and her own personal feelings were irrelevant. Her daughter was eating children and she had to stop it. Period.
As for the bit where she'd have been forced to kill that cop for delaying her, yeah, okay, so that's harsh but you know something Samara was hunting a fucking monster. Any delay -any delay - could potentially cost more and more and more lives. That part of the Justicar code made complete sense to me, because law enforcement at that extreme level should not be vulnerable to local bureaucracy. Powerful criminals should not be able to purchase red tape protection and local officials should not have the ability to halt a fucking monster hunter in the fulfillment of her duty.
You appear to have some personal or emotional reasons for your clear hatred of this character and what she represents, I respect that and your opinion and I will not pry.
What I will do is thoroughly disagree with you on just about every point; if Justicars were 'morally bankrupt', they would be purchasable and corruptible.
They would kill to suit their own needs, rather than kill because they are bound to the action.
They would, in fact, permit emotion to rule their action, rather than accept their positions as instruments of law enforcement.
The Justicars have a clear purpose and are clearly well suited to that purpose. They are clearly worshipped by the Asari and there are clear reasons for that worship, seeing as how we met our only Justicar while she was busy hunting a fucking monster that eats children.
History begs to differ.Ghengis John said:
That gene is what makes people exclusively gay, not willing to fool around for pleasure. Society tells us that that is wrong, hence people don't do so as often.
Monkeys masturbate in public. We don't - not because it isn't fun, but because society tells us not to. There's no "masturbating in public" gene.
I wasn't implying that the previous poster (or you) are secretly gay or bi - I was implying that those concepts only matter because they're (to some extent) forbidden or categorized. If being straight/gay/bi was as accepted as do you prefer chocolate, vanilla, or swirl... there wouldn't even be terms, and "straight" people might try to other option out of curiosity or boredom.
When people become a Justicar, they must accept that everything must be done according to a code. They must destroy their own sense of justice in order remove all shades of grey and to dish out what their code regards as Justice and ignore everyone and everything else. That is not something I view as respectable. What I respect is Samara's dedication to stopping her daughter from killing people and thus her reason for becoming a Justicar, NOT the fact that she became a justicar.boag said:
I don't really care where they operate and who they threaten (they don't stand a chance against the forces of earth anyway), what I believe is to be important are the lives they end, whether this be a petty thief or a law enforcement officer. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Asari law enforcements do not only meddle in Justicar affair not because they respect the views of the Justicars, they also do it because they know that Justicars will go on a killing spree if they do.boag said:
I'm starting to get the feeling that I should have picked a better word than morally bankrupt. Of course, she is still capable of feeling emotions, she can still get heartbroken and she can still regret her actions. However, Justicars try their best to avoid situations. That's what bothers me the most. I don't hate what Samara did in the game, in fact I somewhat respect it while pitying the fact that there did not seem to be another solution (and this was an exception to what Justicars normally do). I hate Samara for what she is outside of this event:boag said:
An agent with little interest in anything that goes outside of her outdated code and to which the words "lives", "situation/motives" and "grey" mean nothing and will not stop at what she's doing, no matter the cost.
I view Justicars as morally bankrupt, because that is the point of being a Justicar. It is their duty to eliminate their own morals and values and replace it with the Justicar code. I do not feel sorry for her loss, as she probably does not feel sorry for the loss of others. I feel sorry for her daughter, whose life ended because of how she was born.
2 things, she makes a point of remembering those she kills.SpaceBat said:
and She didnt kill her daughter for having the condition, she kill her daughter for relishing in it and becoming a monster.
I would dare say that the mother in Omega is glad Justice was served, and got some closure from it.
Lastly, Justicars dont go on "killing sprees", it was explained by her, she would only kill the unjust, she wont kill a person just because they arent dress accordingly, she would kill for people that did heinous acts.
Corruption, Abuse, Murder.
Incorrect. A police officer's job is to enforce the law of the country they reside in. However, unless lives of innocents are in danger, they are not authorized to kill suspects. Their job is to apprehend wrongdoers, so they can stand before court and (hopefully) get the punishment fitting to their act. Their job is to respect any law appropriate to the area and follow it to its best. They can use their own mind to analyze a situation and pick the appropriate choice. If they are in a situation where they are not authorized to continue what they do, they must stand down peacefully.xvbones said:
A Justicar's job is to kill any that their code deems evil and to kill anyone who stands in the way of your job, regardless of where they are. I somewhat believe the comparison you made to be insulting towards Police officers. I have the utmost respect for police officers, but little for Justicars for the reason above.
And these wrong-doings are only punishable by death. No exceptions, nothing.xvbones said:
Justicar do not just hunt specific monsters. They kill whoever they come across that broke their code, regardless of how small the crime may have been or the reason behind it. They avoid the motives behind these things on purpose, by killing these people the moment they have a chance. The fact that they KILL these people, means there is no way and no reason for anyone to figure out the reason behind what these people did or whether the deed was not as black-and-white as it first seemed, because they're dead. No trials, no second chances, nothing.xvbones said:
In no way do I feel sorry for Morinth after what she did and I have said repeatedly that what was done, had to be done. I pity the fact that she was born with this condition, not the fact that she died. To my understanding, Ardat-Yakshi feel a nearly unstoppable urge to mate, even more than their species normally do. By fleeing from isolation, she basically ensured stuff like this would happen. She was a horrible monster and needed to be stopped, but I can't help but pity the fact that she had basically lost the right to a regular life because of genetics.xvbones said:
Yes, pretty much.xvbones said:
It might make total sense for the Justicar code to have such a rule, but that doesn't make it right. Yes, they might be hunting monsters from time to time (Their main job is not monster hunting however. It's protecting the innocent whenever they can), but that does not give them the right to just ignore the laws of the area she's in and FUCKING KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE in order to keep doing what they do. They can never be held in custody for more than a day, regardless of their actions at that moment. The very fact that they're held captive means that they are not out there hunting for evil-doers, which means they cannot be held in custody at any point for more than a day without killing anyone who stands in their way.xvbones said:
In the end, killing innocent people who are just doing their job in order to save other innocent people just doesn't seem as the best choice to me. Yes, powerful officials might try and slow Justicars down by buying off corrupt officials, but do you honestly believe that massacring regular cops in order to avoid this is the right way to go (and do keep in mind that when she murders these people, others law enforcement officers will HAVE TO hunt her down as well, which will also then be murdered by Samara for doing their job) She is like Batman, breaking the law in order to do what she thinks is right. Only huge difference being that the criminals are subject to her rules and her rules always ends in death.
Morally bankrupt, as I said above, was probably a wrong choice of words. I might have confused its meaning with something else. I apologize for that, as English isn't my first language. What I meant with Morally bankrupt was the fact that they try to repress every sense of morals they have and avoid any confrontation that might bring these morals back up. The fact that they follow their own set of rules anywhere without any exceptions and their contradictory behavior while doing so (Justicar must protect the innocent at all cost, even if it costs the lives of innocents.) basically means to me that they try to have no morals of their own, which is why I thought the word "morally bankrupt" would be appropriate.xvbones said:
Monrith ate chi--wait that's not the point. As I said, the situation we encountered was different, but judging by the info we've gotten about Justicars, hunting down specific criminals isn't their main and only objective.xvbones said:
EDIT: I must add one thing though. I really appreciate you keeping the discussion civil, something that seems to be lacking on the internet. So once again, while our opinions may differ, thank you for discussing in a normal manner.
And what does that change? Suffering for the kills you've made does not mean anything if you do not learn from it and improve yourself.boag said:
She killed her daughter for becoming a monster, which is generally the result of the condition (due to a heightened urge to mate) unless they are forced into isolation. No one will choose to be isolated from the world, unless the only other option is death. This doesn't justify her actions at all, as her fleeing resulted in the death of many innocent people (kind of like how Samara fleeing from law enforcement would result in the death of many innocent people. When you have the choice to avoid murder and choose to kill anyway, you're a monster).boag said:
Yes, what she did in Omega was the right thing to do. Here's my point though: I have nothing against her for killing her daughter on omega, because the evil deeds needed to be stopped and there was absolutely no other way. There was no chance of capture, of trial, of anything. She killed and it was the only option available to her at the moment. I do not mind killing a criminal when its necessary, but I would rather have law enforcers apprehend criminals if it is possible and if there would be no lives in danger by doing so. Violence and death should be the last choice.boag said:
If an Asari is withheld from her duties by anyone, such as local law enforcement, she will kill anyone who stands between her and the freedom to continue dishing out her absolute law. This is outright stated in the game. If the situation calls it, she will go on a killing spree and murder every person who dares to stand in her way, even if the victims are good people.boag said:
I can't remember the Justicar code being specific. It just mentions unjust, which I find to be unbelievably vague. Again, whether we're talking about a petty thief or a murderer, context should be important, but is a thing Justicars dismiss.boag said:
You didn't even read the links because it has nothing to do with genetics. Your own correlative philosophy is irrelevant and if you say it's a factor of social norms then you lend credence to people who insist that those who are gay choose to be so. Which I might add is a dangerous idea in the wrong hands.Bara_no_Hime said:
It's also worth noting some people will naturally find strawberry or chocolate repulsive. Not everyone who is allowed to pick "swirl" will. History is filled with individuals in more free-wheeling societies such as Julius Caesar who's tastes were well known and exclusive.
I don't take issue because of a perceived personal insult, but because your ideas seem to be coming from a place of bias. I think you want to believe that without barriers more people would naturally be like you and you draw some support or comfort from that notion and the rational you have built upon it. You wouldn't happen to be gay or bi yourself would you? Because if you are, then I have found the lynchpin of your fantasy. It lets you tell yourself that you are not the exception to the rule, you are evolved. Well that's just hubris talking my friend.
That's pretty much how I see Virmire. A chance to rid myself of Ashley. I found myself laughing with glee when it came time for her "heroic sacrifice" on my second playthrough.Zachary Amaranth said:
I'm sorry, Ashley fans, but I just cant bring myself to sleep with a Nazi
That is entirely true. Police officers, like Justicars, are bound and controlled by hundreds of years' worth of rules and regulations that very strictly determine precisely what they can and cannot do in every single possible situation.SpaceBat said:
Exactly the same as the Justicars, they both have strict rules and regulations that they must obey.
They are both law enforcement at different degrees of power and authority; for Justicars, the power and authority within their jurisdiction - which could easily be a whole galaxy - is absolute.
Their Code says "let nothing stop you from completing your duty".
You keep calling this 'murder of innocents', but that is simply not what is happening here.
There exists absolutely no evidence, not from what we see and not from what Samara tells you or what anyone else tells you about Samara or the justicars that they freely murder innocents.
What is happening here is very, very different.
Wait, here, lemme let you continue:
Okay, so, from the start of this, your biggest beef here seems to revolve entirely around the police officer that will die if she detains Samara too much longer.
Let's talk about this situation, because this really seems to be the crux of your problem with the Justicars.
So we meet this cop, she tells us about her fate and she tells you why: she has to detain a Justicar, and Justicars cannot be detained.
I want to point out a couple things about this situation:
1) The cop is not wavering from her duty. All she has to do is let the Justicar go to save her own life, and she won't. She's told you she won't. She will stay there and fucking die, needlessly, because it is her duty, it is what she signed on for and she does not care if it means her end.
The cop does not complain about her fate. She is not afraid to die, if it is in the fulfillment of her duty.
This is very important in understanding how Asari view duty, it is, to them, an absolute.
2) The cop who stands to be murdered by Samara has nothing but the utmost respect for her.
She tells you, in fact, that when she was a little girl, she dreamed of being a Justicar.
She tells you up front that they are basically super heroes and she has always looked up to them.
And you will notice, the little girl who dreamed of being a Justicar grew up to be a cop. That is not a coincidence or accident, she heard stories about Justicars her whole childhood and grew up to a career in law enforcement.
This cop does not have regrets.
3) Samara has not killed this cop yet.
Your statements make the Justicars out to be very cold blooded, that they are allowed to murder at will if it in the fulfillment of their duty, but you are totally missing that she has not done this.
It has not happened.
If Samara was a heartless ****, if she was Lawful Stupid and thought about nothing but the Code, in short, sir, if she was the villainous prick that you consider her to be, the very moment she was detained, she would have struck down this cop and just walked out the fucking door.
She has not. There is a grace period she is permitted to wait so that she does not have to kill this woman and she is using it. She is sitting patiently while her monster of a daughter and the violent like an erupting volcano murderous gunrunner she is after potentially kill again and again and again.
Just because Justicars have this power does not mean they flex it, nor does it mean they take any joy in it.
Yes, death. No exceptions, nothing. Death.
Now, let's consider who we see Samara hunting down: an incredibly violent gun runner who supplies weaponry to thugs and murderers and a sexual predator who has killed hundreds.
Justicars do not appear to go after petty crime here, they appear to go after incredibly violent and incredibly dangerous criminals.
Death. No exceptions.
IIIN ADDITION;
Shepard has, by the time s/he meets Samara, murdered an entire planet's worth of thugs and mercs and soldiers and monsters in the fulfillment of his own duties.
The people she hunts down have broken a code of Asari law.
Both women we see Samara hunting down are Asari.
We are never shown any evidence that Justicars have any jurisdiction over anyone but Asari.
Asari law appears to be absolute, which means the perpetrators cannot hide under the laws of others.
They broke Asari law and now they have to pay for it.
And if they broke a big enough law that the Justicars are coming for them, based on the two Asari we have seen a Justicar go after, they probably fucking well deserved it.
All evidence I have seen seems to point to Justicar justice as being fairly deserved.
(For example, when my EvilShep hit on Samara, and she told me that she could not, because she had seen me do things that, if she was not bound to me, she would be forced to destroy me?
Her response to EvilShep was not only just, it was also rational.
EvilShep is an intergalactic atrocity that someone is going to have to kill the bejeezusing fuck out of sooner or later or he will one day just flip his shit and start blowing up planets for shits and giggles.)
With respect, you are not Asari, your opinion does not matter to them.
The same as how my opinion of your country's law enforcement cannot possibly alter it nor yours mine.
And again, it is not so much 'killing innocent people' as it is quite specifically 'I cannot be detained, do not detain me or it mean your end.'
These innocents in question are all law enforcement in the fulfillment of their own duties, and as we see from this one cop, they will not flinch from this fate.
Calling it 'murder of innocents' does not illustrate this situation, and it is, to me, very very misleading.
Justicars are by no means running rampant fucking up civvies in the streets.
Do I think it's the right way to go?
Again, my opinion of Asari law is irrelevant. It is Asari law. It is not my law.
But, as it's my opinion, based on everything I have seen about Asari, their capabilities and their society, Justicars are, to me, thoroughly logical entities.
Also, the local cops are not remotely obligated to go after her if she is forced to kill; as soon as she leaves their planet she is outside of their jurisdiction and they are obligated to do precisely nothing at all.
No. Incorrect. Completely incorrect.
It is NOT "her" law, it is Asari law, it is the law of her culture and species. She does NOT determine this law, all she does is enforce it.
She has absolutely NO SAY in this matter, she is a Justicar, she is an incorruptible paragon of Justice, which means she has a code of laws tattooed into her fucking brain and she will follow each and every one of them to the letter.
Sir, it is silly enough that we are having a genuine debate over the practices of an imaginary intergalactic law enforcement agency staffed entirely by psychic supermodels.
Getting uncivil about it would just be stupid.