Mass Effect is not an RPG

[DustyDrB]

It really does not matter how you categorize any game.
A line I've used time and time again over my one year here: Games do not exist to fulfill genre conventions.

 

[Xaositect]

I'm sorry, but the loyalty missions were more of the same? In Samara and Thane's loyalty missions you literally don't engage in combat once. You spent the better half of Kasumi's loyalty mission trying to break into a vault. Plenty of the other loyalty mission had combat in them, but that wasn't the focus of it. For example, Mordin's mission focused on the morality of his actions when he was part of the Salarian special forces. Garrus' was about his need for revenge, and you spent most of Jack's wandering around a deserted research facility.

Heck, you failed to mention your time on the Normandy which can only be spent talking to people and upgrading stuff.

Congratulations, you listed the only two missions in the game which focus on role playing and character development. Namely Thanes and Samaras.

Kasumi is a DLC, so doesnt count, and even then, the vault can be broken in 10 minutes, and the remaining time is spent killing waves of mercs and fighting a gunship.

Mordins mission is mainly about trawling through a krogan hospital killing enemies. You stop a certain points to talk, but the entire movement throughout the mission is based around gunning down Krogan and Vorcha.

Garrus mission isnt even worth mentioning. Its just about killing enemies in a huge warehouse with a cutscene at the end where you choose if he will or will not snipe his target of revenge. Dont even deny it, Ive played it and know the 70-80% of these missions involve killing.

Oh and characters on the Normandy you say? What, you mean nearly half of which wont talk to me unless I romance them?

Miranda is doing reports.

Garrus is calibrating.

Tali is cleaning the engine.

Jack wants me to fuck off.

Even Legion arrives too late in the game to be of any impact in talking.

And in case you bring up Kasumi and Zaeed, they dont even have any interaction. They just spout comments.

Except that most of the skills in Mass Effect 1 were useless

Thats just bullshit hyperbole. All of the very best skills in ME2 can only be argued at their best to be as useful as in ME1, unless you count the shooter ones. I mean, overload still strips shields I suppose.

Of course, vanguard, infiltrator and soldier get new abilities, because the shooting is the focus of the game. Egineers just get the same thing they get from AI hacking. Sentinels just get another barrier, and Adepts only get a power that was BETTER in the first game.

No friend, powers are useless in ME2 if anything. You know, the game where a singularity can be cancelled out if an enemy has an armour rating still up?

Dont bother denying it, because clearly the devs know this, and its why they thankfully added stasis into the game which negates all defenses and holds an enemy regardless. One of the few decent powers in the game on higher difficulties.

But you miss out on a lot of stuff if you don't bother exploring, both on the galaxy map and within missions. You'll miss weapon upgrades, credits and resources if you don't look around. The game rewards you for exploration.

Yes, the game rewards you with useless things. I wouldnt mind if you could find unique items or upgrades by exploring, but by scanning and trudging through shooting galleries, youre rewarded with the same limited crap you can (rarely) buy in shops, and its just as insignificant an incremental upgrade.

"Wow, my pistols power has increased slightly, so Im told. It really doesnt feel at all the same to when I was killing enemies 15 minutes ago, no sirree".

The thing is, apart from a few party characters much of the Mass Effect 1 cast wasn't really memorable. Plenty of the characters had good writing, not just party members; Aria for example, or Dr. Okeer. EDI was another, with Joker getting a bigger role in the game.

This is down to taste now. I thought most of the ME2 characters sucked ass.

I wanted Joker to die in ME2. This is the prick who gets you killed, and then has the audacity to say "Im not losing another Normandy" when you are aboard the collector ship. Some were okay I guess, but none of them had any real impact on the plot. Its just the same busywork crap that most of ME2 is made up of.

Yes, because the weapons you found were different, not inherently better. Of course this is so dumbed down from a system of 'bigger numbers=better gear'. Why is it so complex and deep to replace an item with smaller number with one with bigger numbers? How is making a choice over the type and abilities of the weapon you'll use 'dumbed down' from just using the same weapon over and over again until a marginally better model shows up?

Mass Effect 2: Do you want a semi-sutomatic sniper rifle or a bolt action? Do you want a burst fire assault rifle or a fully automatic one? 'Magnum revolver' pistol or one with lower power but higher clip capacity? Flamethrower, missle launcher, grenade launcher, freeze ray, nuke gun or powerful laser?

Mass Effect 1: More powerful gun or less powerful gun?

I detested the weapons in ME1, so dont bother talking to me about them. I knew they were just reskins of the same weapon with different stats. Thats why I used my powers more.

ME2? There is no weapon customisation at all, and instead you get to choose between 2 or 3 different methods. Wow.

Hey, shall I choose the gun that gos "BANG", or "Pew pew!", or "Ratatatatata".

Whichever one you choose, get fucking comfortable with it, because you wont be seeing many more over the course of the game.

Some of them were basically shooting galleries with a theme, but others weren't. The mission where you have to deal with the Patriarch, or the one on the crashed ship on the cliff, or the one where you had to restart the shield generator or the onw ith the mining droid you had to get running.

All of which sucked, in case you hadnt noticed.

Patriarch: Talk to partiarch. Goad him into attacking his assassins/offer to fight for him(which leads to you talking to assassins and killing them in cutscene). Followed by chat with Aria. Garbage.

The other N7 missions you mentioned sucked too, and only lasted five minutes.

What really bothers me is that you think you can show that it's not an RPG because there is a large amount of combat. Just because it's not the type of combat you associate with RPGs doesn't mean it's not an RPG. Compare most other RPGs and you'll find a similar ratio of combat to other stuff. You say you want a hybrid, but you mark the game down for having the combat system that it's supposed to be a hybird with.

IT. IS. THE. COMBAT. IN. A. TPS.

That kinda leaves you little room to wiggle. Its a TPS.

If they had made the TPS combat more optional, and gave those who didnt want it more freedom, guess what? Viola, were back to ME1 territory, which I believe you aptly describe as a hybrid TPS/RPG. Or simply ARPG if youre feeling vague and nonspecific.

 

[GiantRaven]

It really does not matter how you categorize any game.
A line I've used time and time again over my one year here: Games do not exist to fulfill genre conventions.

I agree. The arguments arising from this thread are the perfect example of why I dislike the genre name of 'Role-Playing Game'.

 

[stefman]

Take a long time to think about the term RPG.Role playing Game.ME2 is a game and you play a role.A role you can choose.
Nowhere in this term does it say you need an inventory,stats,and a skill tree.
Don't get me wrong,I prefered the ME1 style of RPG than ME2,and I love RPGs in the traditional sense,but labeling ME2 NOT an RPG because it doesn't take the same approach as other games is stupid,especially since it stays true to the very name of RPG.

see that does make sense, but technically in blackops you play the "role" of alex mason. so whats the diff yo?

The difference is that in Blops,you play the Alex's character,you do not choose his role.You could argue with the semantics,but at the end of the day,you cannot dictate what Alex will do,you only control him as HE performs his role.

hmmm. good point. i think its just that we have associated aspects of certain rpg's with the genre and now we expect these aspects in every rpg, even though rpg's can differ greatly between each other. oh and i am soo looking forward to mass effect 2 ps3 lmao

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

i call it a RPG-Shooter, is that so hard to consider?

and RPG trapped within a third person shooter perhaps?

 

[silasbufu]

For the love o- Dude, just fix your grammar and spelling.

What is it that your profile name says? I just can't comprehend. Ironic

hmmmm sleetblind?

You missed my point completely. And way to defend the guy that just insulted you. You sure are jolly

 

[GiantRaven]

You missed my point completely. And way to defend the guy that just insulted you. You sure are jolly

Out of interest, what was your point? I fail to see how names are governed by the rules of spelling and grammar.

 

[Xaositect]

i call it a RPG-Shooter, is that so hard to consider?

and RPG trapped within a third person shooter perhaps?

Yeah, if by trapped you mean "smothered by the shooters fat ass, unable to breath or make much of an impact on the game at all".

Honestly, Im not sure why people are crying so much. People complained ME1 didnt give them enough of a shooter experience they could enjoy.

Shut the fuck up and take it when RPG fans decide to do the same. I dont remember people trying to silence criticism of ME1 by coming out with the kind of crap used to try and shut out criticism of ME2s anaemic RPG elements that are almost nonexistant.

Edit: Just to be clear, that last part was aimed generally at the gaming populace, not anyone in particular. Its about attitudes surrounding both games.

 

[Joshimodo]

You play a role in a team, chosen from a selection of classes. You have skills to upgrade.


It's an RPG.

 

[Malone II]

I think they need to bring back a lot of the elements from ME1 for ME3.

Mainly the inventory/upgrade system and the old way the skills were done and the Mako. It seems they got rid of the Mako to make Planet's surfaces more diverse, but I'll take size over diversity in this case.

Who ever thought the New skill 'trees' in ME2 were a good idea needs a kick in the head.

 

[silasbufu]

You missed my point completely. And way to defend the guy that just insulted you. You sure are jolly

Out of interest, what was your point? I fail to see how names are governed by the rules of spelling and grammar.

2P3LL1nG L1k3 Th12 @nD Th3n C0mPl@1n1ng @b0ut 2p3LL1ng @nD Gr@mm@r 12 1r0n1c.

 

[stormcrow5]

I call it a RPG easy, its got a choice system and so what if they got rid of the Inv system where u just had thousends of items that u wont use and hundreds of doubles of what u are useing how is that a loss? still had skill points good story that u played a role in the direction it went and improved combat, People who call it not a RPG just got their hopes wayyyyy to high when the game came out and are just bitching because its not what they wanted

 

[WanderingFool]

You missed my point completely. And way to defend the guy that just insulted you. You sure are jolly

Out of interest, what was your point? I fail to see how names are governed by the rules of spelling and grammar.

2P3LL1nG L1k3 Th12 @nD Th3n C0mPl@1n1ng @b0ut 2p3LL1ng @nD Gr@mm@r 12 1r0n1c.

Is it bad if I can read that?

 

[Grey_Focks]

Yes, it is. Other people have already given great arguments as to why it is, so really there isn't a whole lot for me to add.

snip

This mentlegen has hit the nail on the head. Really though people just need to get out of their boxes and except that just because a game didn't cater to exactly what you wanted, doesn't mean it's no longer an RPG. The RGG genre is so damn broad, including everything from baldgur's gate, to fallout 3, diablo, to final fantasy, that I'm really just not understanding how you can say ME2 isn't one.

 

[Marowit]

Dunno, I thought was an RPG. I picked it up, played as a character where I made decisions which effected the game, and did things that improved my gear/ship.

I do wish the Universe was a little more expansive, but BioWare seems to do that with their RPGs. Dragon Age was pretty narrow in terms of where you were allowed to go, same thing with KoTOR, and same with Mass Effect. Sure you get to see a lot of places, but they're mostly corridors. If I had to complain about one thing that BioWare does it's how a lot of the places they send you to in their RPGs turn out to be corridors.

On the other hand I can see how that allows them to craft a more coherent story for you to work your way through. A little more freedom would be welcome to me though.

 

[Boba Frag]

Mass Effect has more actual "role playing" than most RPGs. Most JRPGs have no role playing whatsoever, and I do love a GOOD JRPG. It seems to me most people really don't understand what a RPG is supposed to be and they think RPGs are all about leveling, getting skills and abilities, and getting lots of items.

Totally agree with you there. It never claimed to be a pure RPG anyway. Endless lists and mods are not playing a role, unless that role is the Normandy's quartermaster!

Loved ME2 and being a huge fan of character driven story that I could actually affect with choices, revelled in the universe that allowed me to upgrade things but didn't need me to spend most of my day reading tiny numbers on a screen.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

I don't think Mass Effect 2 i a bad game, in fact it's a good game by itself. The problem is that it's not a good RPG.

Sure they have improved on the shooting, which is a plus, but alot of what was cut from it takes away what I'd argue was not only what made it an RPG, but what made the game interesting. The reason why people complain about not changing or managing weapons and armor is because, just like the planet exploration that was taken out, is because one of the elements that makes a game an RPG (in my opinion anyways) is exploration. Not just exploration of area, but also exploration of everything, basically looking for the next thing in armor or weapons, just to see what new things are available. When you take all those elements out, there is very little left (besides the jobs I suppose) that makes the game an RPG. Still a good game, just not a good RPG. Hopefully the third one will include the shooting from Mass Effect 2 and the RPG elements and wonder of exploring space from Mass Effect 1.

 

[silasbufu]

Is it bad if I can read that?

Reading, no. Writing, yes.

 

[Durxom]

leveling up, inventory, and combat are NOT what makes an RPG, an RPG is theability to ROLE-PLAY, which the game does nicely.

I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong.

An RPG is not just about roleplay. Since you people like to go back to the DnD roots with this stuff, I'll explain it through that.

You can't just go through a RPG with just roleplaying alone, there are 2 major parts to a PnP RPG:

1) Character Roleplaying - you make your character and class, and you follow what he or she might do, even if it goes against the rest of a group. ie~ You being a paladin and having to go and save someone because of your background even though the rest of the group says no

2) Number Crunching - You CAN NOT have a RPG without the number crunching. It is an essential part of the RPG experience because it determines how well you can actually roleplay (ie. bluff checks, thievery checks, arcana checks, etc) as well as determining how well you do in battle.

So yes, Leveling up, inventory, and combat ARE an essential part of what makes an RPG an RPG, most JRPGs take that route while WRPGs take the Character Roleplaying route. So in this case, Mass Effect 2 is as much an RPG as Final Fantasy XIII is, allowing lots of RPG elements in one area but little in the other.