Mass Effect Legendary edition impressions: Two steps forward, one step back

09philj

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the Asari are incapable of the heavy lifting militarily. Uh, what? Okay so they're better at small unit tactics than large ones but bodily the Asari don't seem different to the human women in the Systems Alliance like Shepard or Ashley or Mel in a physical sense. And whatever shortcomings they have can be made up for by the fact that every single Asari is a natural biotic and given what Liara or Samara are capable of, Thessia is the last fucking planet I'd want to try a ground invasion of.
The impression I got across the series is that the Asari produce plenty of good soldiers but their armed forces aren't particularly well developed, except for their massive navy. The Salarian military is also small but it's well organised and has the best military intelligence so makes up for it. The Genophage would have severely cut the amount of troops the Krogan could field too, but pretty much every Krogan male is a soldier and Krogan are really, really tough, and Wrex's reforms made them into more of a cohesive force.
 

Gordon_4

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The impression I got across the series is that the Asari produce plenty of good soldiers but their armed forces aren't particularly well developed, except for their massive navy. The Salarian military is also small but it's well organised and has the best military intelligence so makes up for it. The Genophage would have severely cut the amount of troops the Krogan could field too, but pretty much every Krogan male is a soldier and Krogan are really, really tough, and Wrex's reforms made them into more of a cohesive force.
No I get that; it just comes across to me as the writers making sure to spit on the space elves for the sake of the human player. The in-universe reason they're bad at it, and one that makes sense, is that the Asari republics were largely very independent of one another and lacked a central government or formal military outside the navy. Each republic raising its own militia. It could be that its just the way Aethyta phrases it that raises my hackles because she's otherwise a voice of pretty good reason among the side characters. Its just the way she said it makes it sound like the writers are saying the Asari are physically incapable of the combined arms approach the Turians and the Humans apply and I think that's reductionist bullshit.

As for the Krogan, they're mostly warriors rather than soldiers. A very distinct difference. Grunt and Aralakh Company are the only Krogan unit that act like soldiers, and even then most of that is likely coming from whatever Grunt learned from Shepard. And Wrex's reformist platform is about unifying them certainly but that's less to make them a formal military power than it is for them to start clawing back their cultural dignity, become a people again and probably go through something similar to the backstory of the Vulcans: an age of reason to curb the pretty impressive tempers of their people. Mading the loss of an influnce like Charr all the more tragic :(. Of course all of that will involve formalising their army like everything else, but they've probably still got until the end of Liara's lifetime before they'll be allowed to progress in that area beyond what we've allowed Japan to do since World War II.


God it must sound like I'm shitting heavily on the series here but I love it to death; even with all these issues (as if Mass Effect is the only such sci-fi setting with issues) the great vastly outweighs the bad. Mass Effect was the sci-fi I didn't know I wanted until I had it and damn it four games is just not enough.
 

Gordon_4

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Sure, but it is all stupid and totally improbable and makes absolutely no sense if you stop for even a second to think about it. Humans are a bit player in Mass Effect, a really eager and go-getting bit player but still about on the level of the Volus or Hanar in terms of power. Cerberus is a radical, racist terrorist organization within that bit player. And somehow they've got all the resources to make a navy that rivals the actual earth navy and ground forces enough to assault the Citadel, not to mention their perfect intel which not only includes moles on the Citadel but the precise locations of top secret Salarian research labs. There's a lot to say about it but Shamus young has already discussed Tim Island and I think that blog post pretty well covers the ridiculousness of Cerberus in ME2 and 3.
Their navy does not equal Systems Alliance. Like, at all. They have about twenty or thirty ships. If that. I said before that if not for the Reapers being present, Cerberus would be wiped out by any number of the human fleets. To say nothing of the unmitigated curb stomping the Turian navy would give them. Their power base and force projection is completely situational. Also don't forget one of the first things Cerberus did was capture Omega, functionally the Citadel of the Terminus Systems which gives them a massive base, space port, manufacturing capability and as much Eezo as some governments.

The humans being a bit player is writers soft wanking the fans who prefer hanging out with the Turians or the Asari. They're not bit players, the game demonstrates that they are a rapidly rising power. Also, the premise of TIM Island is flawed in one massive way: any number of current powers can detect massive construction on a terrestrial area due to satellite coverage and espionage but ship construction in Mass Effect is done in space; that infinite expanse above our heads that we can currently barely map. The SR2 was built in a shipyard in the middle of bumfuck no where and I doubt that facility is single use. Another thing, TIM won't be buying his steel from Rio Tinto, he'll be mining it directly off asteroids and if he (read: the writers) are smart all of this will be done in the Terminus Systems where the Systems Alliance and Citadel Council DO NOT GO. In fact plenty of humans go into the Terminus Systems to get AWAY from the Systems Alliance.
 

laggyteabag

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I finished ME3 yesterday afternoon, and after having played ME during most of my spare time for the last month and a half, I now don't know what to do with myself.

... I hear Adepts are a fun class to play as...

...Maybe just, one more playthrough...
 

Gordon_4

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I finished ME3 yesterday afternoon, and after having played ME during most of my spare time for the last month and a half, I now don't know what to do with myself.

... I hear Adepts are a fun class to play as...

...Maybe just, one more playthrough...
Its weird, I just wrapped up ME2 as my ME1 Adept and either they buffed Biotics or I had a 'Git Gud' moment because on normal difficulty, even with two of the shittiest weapon slots in the game, I was tearing through everyone and everything. Like I never remember kicking the shit out of enemies in that game as the squishy wizard that easily. If that's reflective elsewhere the ME2 Sentinel class should just provide you with a save editor because that class was overpowered as fuck in the original ME2.
 

laggyteabag

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Its weird, I just wrapped up ME2 as my ME1 Adept and either they buffed Biotics or I had a 'Git Gud' moment because on normal difficulty, even with two of the shittiest weapon slots in the game, I was tearing through everyone and everything. Like I never remember kicking the shit out of enemies in that game as the squishy wizard that easily. If that's reflective elsewhere the ME2 Sentinel class should just provide you with a save editor because that class was overpowered as fuck in the original ME2.
I find that the ME games are just generally very easy.

If you want to experience true power, though - in ME3, spec Garrus into weapon damage through his passive, armour piercing ammo, and outfit option, then give him the N7 Typhoon. Melts brutes and other armoured opponents in moments.

I've never played ME on Insanity before, because I think I have just been intimidated by the idea of "the hardest difficulty", but I just completed the trilogy as an Infiltrator on Insanity, and other than a couple of instances (The Geth Prime room in ME3's Priority: Rannoch), it was as a complete breeze.

It was quite funny, because when you first fight Kai Leng on Thessia, he does his whole "im super powerful - you dont come close" shtick, only for him to whimper behind cover for his shields to recharge, after the first headshot.
 

laggyteabag

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I have never - EVER - enjoyed a Renegade Interrupt as much as that one. Fuck that ponce from the top of his topknot to the soles of his try hard boots.
I think Kai Leng was a missed opportunity.

He comes out of nowhere. He screams that he is better than you. He only succeeds through plot-armoured cutscenes. Then you kill him.

I think it would have been great if he was a squad member in ME2 - probably replacing Jacob as one of your handlers - who you betray/he betrays you, then he continues to stay loyal to Cerberus in ME3.

As it stands, unless you have read the books or the comics, he just appears out of thin air, and hates your guts for no reason. It is just hard to care about him, amongst everything else that ME3 throws at you.
 
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Gordon_4

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So yeah, you can find some empty solar system and set up a base there. That's literally the first part of TIM Island, the easy part. The hard part is everything that comes after. Even if you don't buy steel but mine your own iron ore, refine it and put it through the chemical process needed to harden it up to spec (and do this for every component on the ship) you still end up bumping up against the issue of where do you get all the manpower and equipment from? That's thousands of highly specialized people gone just for the steel. Then there's tens of thousands more for similar roles and tens of thousands more for all the support roles. Somehow no one on the council, systems alliance or anywhere else starts wondering why so many people in potentially sensitive roles for the armaments industry are going dark? No one is wondering why a lot of highly classified, supremely restricted components only used in military warships are going missing (and no, you can't just make a factory to push out advanced stealth composites, military grade computer hardware etc. it is so specialized fields that it requires decades of investment before you can make something actually useful even if you steal your enemy's plans. If you don't you are looking at at least another decade of experimentation and prototyping, for examples look at the USSR and nukes or China and Iran and stealth tech) or why thousands of medium and large sized freighters are suddenly making weird detours into empty solar systems or providing fake flight plans? No one is apparently bothering with monitoring mass relays despite the fact that monitoring chokepoints is the very basics of military and logistical intelligence. The more you think about Cerberus ability to wage open war and supply itself with advanced equipment the more stupid it gets because it assumes, as Young points out, that the entire Galaxy is a bunch of passive dunces waiting for the plot to happen to them and not a place full of incredibly competent military and intelligence personnel who will be proactively go out to find threats like a terrorist organization with a fucking space fleet.

The entire problem with Cerberus as presented in ME2/3 is only partially that it went from "rogue black ops unit" like it was in ME1 into this massive, hugely influential organization with vast resources that no one can pin down for some reason, but has bases everywhere and somehow is on the cutting edge of pretty much every research. It is the organizational equivalent of a Mary Sue both in terms of powerset and how the entire story warps around it to accommodate it and give it a disproportionate amount of screen time. You needn't look any further then to the fact that you have more encounters with Cerberus then with the MFing Reapers in ME3 to see how Cerberus is like a cancer of bad decisions and storytelling that actively makes ME3 worse at every turn. I've said many times that Kai Leng could have been a really cool villain had a better writer used him more sparsely and less bluntly. The same is very much true for Cerberus. A good writer would have used them as a shadow enemy with sleepers that sabotage your attempts at unifying the galaxy against the Reapers and small squads running interference on you. Instead we get a terrorist organization with a massive fleet, a sizable elite ground force and an ability to attack any target at any time no matter how secret, strategically important or well guarded it might be. It is all stupid. It would be less stupid if ME was drama first like Star Trek, but ME was distinctly built on a details first approach to world building and in that context Cerberus is beyond the pale stupid.
Cerberus’ fleet is TINY compared to the actual navies of the setting. And they field maybe 50,000 troops - most of whom get killed in the Citadel coup - and some light armour to do strike operations against largely soft targets or targets in highly contested areas. Which they can only do because the Alliance and other powers are occupied by having their teeth kicked in by the Reapers. If organisations like the Blue Suns, Eclipse and Blood Pack can have force projection then Cerberus having it is not out of line. And yes, the Galaxy of Mass Effect like every other science fiction universe that’s about thrilling heroics and epic adventure sagas is populated by complete fucking idiots because of it wasn’t then the protagonist is superfluous. I mean Jesus fuck we all realise Mass Effect exists because BioWare lost the Star Wars rights for a spell? It’s space opera; the codex is fluff for the educated - yourself for example - and to set the rules on Element Zero but otherwise it’s meant to be a grand epic ala Star Wars or Lord of the Rings.

For the record, everything about Cerberus is weapons grade stupid and Mass Effect was poorer for their inclusion. I honestly think someone on their writing team had some kind of premonition about the kind of person who could sway loads of idiots to a stupid cause with their YouTube videos and fell in live with it. Look at the way the Illusive Man conducts himself: the suit, the bourbon, the smoking and the faux, surface level charisma born of age and some education. He’s <insert your least favourite Internet pundit> on space YouTube pontificating about Humanity and it’s inherent greatness. He was designed to pander to the worst type of player and the associated fragile egos of humanity is special assholes who infest science fiction who can’t tolerate humans being anything other than God’s gift to the galaxy. See also the Palpatine did nothing wrong crowd.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I finished ME3 yesterday afternoon, and after having played ME during most of my spare time for the last month and a half, I now don't know what to do with myself.

... I hear Adepts are a fun class to play as...

...Maybe just, one more playthrough...
You could revisit Andromeda.
 

Gordon_4

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I think Kai Leng was a missed opportunity.

He comes out of nowhere. He screams that he is better than you. He only succeeds through plot-armoured cutscenes. Then you kill him.

I think it would have been great if he was a squad member in ME2 - probably replacing Jacob as one of your handlers - who you betray/he betrays you, then he continues to stay loyal to Cerberus in ME3.
That would have been brilliant. I mean I accepted his presence because The Illusive Man is going to need a new right hand after you stole Miranda - possibly by sweeping her off her feet - from him. So he just promotes a really staunch loyalist and actual bigot from within and gives him top shelf chrome.

It also gives the game the combat half of the Cerberus boss battle since if face to face TIM is about as threatening as boiled cabbage to professional heroes like Shepard and their crew. Basically between them they represent the two parts to Shepard’s final encounter with Saren.
 

CriticalGaming

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That would have been brilliant. I mean I accepted his presence because The Illusive Man is going to need a new right hand after you stole Miranda - possibly by sweeping her off her feet - from him. So he just promotes a really staunch loyalist and actual bigot from within and gives him top shelf chrome.

It also gives the game the combat half of the Cerberus boss battle since if face to face TIM is about as threatening as boiled cabbage to professional heroes like Shepard and their crew. Basically between them they represent the two parts to Shepard’s final encounter with Saren.
After playing the entire trilogy from start to finish ive made the conclusion that the series as a whole is extremely overrated. So much of the plot is just pointless, most of which is Cerberus.

The organization as a whole makes sense in a world pre-reapers. But with the second game it becomes very clear that Cerberus not only knows about the Reapers but also how big of a threat they are. Thus the company continuing to be a terrorist piece of shit after the second game makes no sense.

After Saren's attack on the citadel the lack of belief of the council also makes no sense. While i can understand them fighting in the best interest of their people, outright dismissing Shepard's urgency of the reapers is stupid.

There could have been more story involving bring the galaxy together to stop the reapers than all these boring side factions of gangs and terrorists.

ME is remembered for its cast not its story. Which is why people didnt like Andromeda as much because the cast stank. Even the bugs would have been tolerated if the cast had been good.

I never played the Dragon Age games but if they are anything like the ME trilogy i wonder how Bioware got so much hype behind them because these games are not the masterpieces that the fans claim.
 

Asita

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Here let me rewrite the Reapers reasoning off the top of my head. "We cultivate the galaxy, seed it with organics. We watch them expand and grow, building resources, modifying technologies from previous cycles. Then when they've reached their peak, we purge them and reset galatic life. Every cycle we use this growth to modify ourselves growing more powerful with each cycle."
Well, the story goes that the original main narrative was that the buildup of Dark Energy was accelerating the heat death of the universe at a geometric rate. The point of the cycles was to reset the board and hope that the players in the next game would be able to come up with a better solution.

The eponymous Mass Effect technology used Dark Energy to function, so as galactic civilization used more and more of the stuff, the decay of the universe would continue to speed up. So the Reapers would come in to wipe everything out when its cost/benefit ratio shifted too far to the cost side (thereby taking the galaxy's figurative foot off the gas pedal) and they hoped that the next generation would come up with a more DE-efficient model, if not figure out a proper solution entirely.

For better or worse, the information we have on the original plotline suggests that it had bit of inspiration (or at least thematic overlap) from the Anti-Spirals in Gurren Lagann.
 
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meiam

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I never played the Dragon Age games but if they are anything like the ME trilogy i wonder how Bioware got so much hype behind them because these games are not the masterpieces that the fans claim.
Dragon age Origin was more of a traditional fantasy RPG at a time when there was almost none coming out. It's a fun game but doesn't really do anything special but if you want a standard sword and sorcery adventure its about as decent as it gets.

Then DA2 came out and it also had a lot of problem but was similar to ME in that it had a great cast and decent writing. It has a bad reputation but I think its the best of the trilogy, the conversation moved away from good/evil (paragon/renegade) choice and instead let you pick option based on how you want to respond to people or how you want to complete quest without punishing you for straying from your usual path. I also like the idea that the story is about following your character as they go from poor refuge to noble and was pretty happy that it wasn't the standard "big bad show up, you're the one, go kill him". Sadly it suffer a lot from re used dungeon and a terrible last act.

I have no freaking clue why people liked inquisition though, that was hot garbage as far as I'm concerned. They massively dumped down the gameplay and the story is a massive mess (probably because they recycled an MMO into a single player game).

Otherwise bioware is mostly cruising on reputation, they haven't really made anything good in a decades+. But their reputation is slowly getting eroded so I'm guessing EA will axe the studio in maybe 10 year.
 
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Gordon_4

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Dragon age Origin was more of a traditional fantasy RPG at a time when there was almost none coming out. It's a fun game but doesn't really do anything special but if you want a standard sword and sorcery adventure its about as decent as it gets.

Then DA2 came out and it also had a lot of problem but was similar to ME in that it had a great cast and decent writing. It has a bad reputation but I think its the best of the trilogy, the conversation moved away from good/evil (paragon/renegade) choice and instead let you pick option based on how you want to respond to people or how you want to complete quest without punishing you for straying from your usual path. I also like the idea that the story is about following your character as they go from poor refuge to noble and was pretty happy that it wasn't the standard "big bad show up, you're the one, go kill him". Sadly it suffer a lot from re used dungeon and a terrible last act.

I have no freaking clue why people liked inquisition though, that was hot garbage as far as I'm concerned. They massively dumped down the gameplay and the story is a massive mess (probably because they recycled an MMO into a single player game).

Otherwise bioware is mostly cruising on reputation, they haven't really made anything good in a decades+. But their reputation is slowly getting eroded so I'm guessing EA will axe the studio in maybe 10 year.
I didn’t like the way Dragon Age II ended at first but then I thought about it and it actually makes sense it ending the way it did. And I like Inquisition but the game’s massive issue is that it takes too damn long to get to Skyhold and there’s insufficient direction to alert the player that you don’t have to clear the map in the Hinterlands to move the story along.
 

CriticalGaming

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Otherwise bioware is mostly cruising on reputation, they haven't really made anything good in a decades+. But their reputation is slowly getting eroded so I'm guessing EA will axe the studio in maybe 10 year.
\
I guess making a couple good Star Wars games will net you a LOT of goodwill with people. Shame too, Bioware's plan seems to be creating things with great potential only to have them fall flat on their face more often than not.