Massively Single Player, Part 2

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Maybe the reason people want to play MMOGs by themselves is that playing with others is a royal pain.

To put it bluntly, this. Anyone whose been in PvP knows this to be true. PvE isn't as bad, but is still up there with its idiot Zone Pullers, Self-Healers, Ninja Looters and "MY QUEST FIRST! : CYA!" muppets.

Occasionally, you'll get a wonderful PUG (Pick Up Group) but have you EVER found one in L4D?

 

[Abedeus]

Of course playing with others is pain. I had a group in Aion two days ago, my Chanter (healing/support/dps hybrid) as the designated melee DPS and mantra support, other Chanter (I love dual-chanter groups) designated healer and support mantra, Gladiator tank/dps, Spiritmaster support tank/DPS and Sorcerer as a DPS/CC, so everyone in the group of 5 deals damage.

...After about 40 minutes, the Chanter leaves. Okay, no worries, I was higher level anyway. We can do it.

...30 seconds before killing the last boss from the quest, the gladiator leaves with words "Sorry guys, g2g, bb". Seriously, we were like WTF. In 3 people it was impossible to do it. I was hoping that I would get aggro and heal myself while the SM and Sorc damaged and CC'ed the enemy. Guess what, we aggroed another monster... God.

Never again. I'm back to my solo Spiritmaster.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Just an added note on LOTRO as it was mentioned in the article.

Turbine, the devs of LOTRO, have taken huge steps in the recent past to ensure that things like this happen a lot less than they used to. There are now very few quests in the early game that require grouping at all, and those that do have relaxed requirements. Things like dropping the suggested team size to 3 from 6 and balancing difficulty so a well geared and knowledgeable solo player has a real chance at completion are now common. They are also in the process of revamping the Epic (aka Main Storyline) quest line such that it can be played by a solo player or a group of variable size. On top of all that is the Skirmish system that many of the newer Epic quests use, which is automatically built to scale with teams of 1, 3, 6 or 12 players.

The issue brought up in the article does definitely exist, and I absolutely hate being railroaded into a group quest like this too, but it's a bit of a misnomer to single out LOTRO as being particularly noteworthy as an offender.

 

[lesterley]

Forced grouping is what made Dungeons & Dragons Online ultimately fail. It was one of the worst design decisions I've ever seen on an MMO.

I absolutely agree with you, Shamus. I think many game designers forget that the purpose of a game is to HAVE FUN.

Leslee

 

[The Great JT]

Other players: Your greatest ally and biggest hinderance.

 

[Capo Taco]

This newspost and thread ignores a couple of things.

Just letting players do whatever they want is not a sure fire recipe for fun.

Sometimes it's not about you, the solo-er. Sometimes the game designers intend for a experience to be collaborative. And when they fail, you get the experience you describe. But that does not mean allowing everything solo as well is the solution. The biggest problem, as I see it, is that you want to team with like-leveled players. Take away that and it's easier to find a good team.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Forced grouping is what made Dungeons & Dragons Online ultimately fail.

No, no, no. There were FAR worse things than that that made it fail.

I agree with StriderShinryu though, LotRo is actually quite fun for soloing; but D&D online suffers so much in that the classes were meant to compliment each other. Like Team Fortress, you've no hope of playing the game only as one class.

WoW Shammies, CoV Masterminds, EQ Bards/Beastlords are all soloing machines; but swap to a Healer class in most games and your chance of soloing anything other than grey undead is zippo.

 

[zf6hellion]

This newspost and thread ignores a couple of things.

Just letting players do whatever they want is not a sure fire recipe for fun.

Sometimes it's not about you, the solo-er. Sometimes the game designers intend for a experience to be collaborative. And when they fail, you get the experience you describe. But that does not mean allowing everything solo as well is the solution. The biggest problem, as I see it, is that you want to team with like-leveled players. Take away that and it's easier to find a good team.

Actually a better situation is to make it entirely optional, as between the two if you want to do the quests with a party then your free to do so but you shouldn't be forced into grouping as a lot of people do like to play alone for whatever reason

 

[Woe Is You]

But that does not mean allowing everything solo as well is the solution.

Why not?

 

[oldgamer]

Demon's Souls has some solutions to the Massively Single Player problem.
You always see other people playing as ghosts in their own world, leaving you hints you can rate, leaving bloodstains so you can see how they died, you can summon them in seconds to co-op at the same point in the game, you can be invaded or invade other players games for PVP.
All Demon's Souls needs is to be on the PC and have IRC chat build-in, guild system, and the point of putting it on PC is so you can have a keyboard and a way of adding expansions like WoW.

Anyway, I'll be checking your future posts and reviewing some of your old ones, I like your stuff.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

WoW is built around "Group first, solo second" idea. I don't like grouping most of the time, hard to find players who arn't constantly criticising that you don't play a min/max build, that you don't raid for the best gear possible, you know, jerks. Wow doesn't take in to consideration that some people have a life in the outside world, with commitments you have to keep. Maybe Blizz hopes that their player base are like those people who have a computer setup the size of a small house and are able to multi-task 12 accounts simultaneously and forego any real life.

I like WoW, I do, but it just isn't a casual friendly game.

 

[teijakool]

A problem I see with MMOs, and esp. WoW, is that Blizzard does not differ between casual players and stupid players.
It's nice to have some comfort features, but along the development since about Naxxramas, WoW has gone from "I'll show you how to do it" to "I'll do it for you, and wrap it in shiny". I have been at it since release to about Naxxramas and jumped in from time to time, but the average skill and competence has gone down significantly.

 

[geldonyetich]

There's exceptions to each critique, really.

Getting together a group is a hassle and hard to do? Not if you have a really slick LFG interface. Blizzard recently added one to WoW that is basically a one button group former, and it has had an overwhelmingly positive reception.

Developers forget that the lower levels become underpopulated over time? Some MMORPGs, such as Final Fantasy XI, integrate mechanics which encourage players to rechurn those lower levels and their lower level game is actually quite popular. City of Heroes actually has a fairly boring end game so their lower level game stays popular simply because creating a new character is more fun - incentive-based lower level rechurn. Some MMORPGs (including City of Heroes) have a mentoring system that allows lower level players to play with higher level players (and vice versa).

My point only being that the idea that going massively single player is a necessity based on the platform doesn't hold water when there are examples to the contrary.

 

[Nadiril]

WoW is built around "Group first, solo second" idea. I don't like grouping most of the time, hard to find players who arn't constantly criticising that you don't play a min/max build, that you don't raid for the best gear possible, you know, jerks. Wow doesn't take in to consideration that some people have a life in the outside world, with commitments you have to keep. Maybe Blizz hopes that their player base are like those people who have a computer setup the size of a small house and are able to multi-task 12 accounts simultaneously and forego any real life.

I like WoW, I do, but it just isn't a casual friendly game.

You have to be kidding right? in terms of MMO's WoW is probably the most casual friendly. In comparison to what it was a long time ago. If you want epics you can just go do heroics with a random group thats off server with the new lfg tool or if you want to do it by yourself go do bg's. Alot of the player base is casual and it really doesn't require a massive time investment. As for the jerks, well their in every game and unless your speccing horribly wrong (i.e 20/20/20 or something) most of the time it's a somewhat negligible difference until your at the raiding stage of the game. (Tbh though it really doesn't take much to go onto elitist jerks and check a rotation and a spec just to have some idea of what are good talents if your 80.)

 

[PsiMatrix]

Experienced Points: Massively Single Player, Part 2

Maybe the reason people want to play MMOGs by themselves is that playing with others is a royal pain.

You read my mind.

Now for the next one: 'The Chosen One' but not. The stories tend to be setup as you ALONE are the only hope but end up being designed with more than one person in mind. So some of the story feels a bit wasted when it talks about how you alone were responsible for defeating someone when you brought an entire team with you for it.

Or perhaps; Non-Linear Experience. When you play a single-player; the story is fairly linear, as it has to be in most cases. When you play an MMO the story can be far less so. Sure you might face the same missions/quests a few times but the path you took last time can be so different to before. Put simply; there's more to do.

 

[Misaek]

I for one love co-op play though when I choose to. If there's one thing I hate its when I am on a roll doing quests and just doing whatever needs to be done and then going back to the quest giver and have my spirits utterly crushed and all the flow broken to an unrecognizable mass when I see the "X amount of players recommended" if it is just 2 or sometimes even three that's O.K. but when I see four or five I want to just stop playing but OH lookie at those awesome rewards so I MUST do it. Oh yah and then the cardinal sin is when the notorious "I can finish this quest then I need to go" comes up in a party member because then when you find out Oh there's another group quest that requires even more people now, that person leaves.

 

[TJM8]

Well the WoW I know, before lich, did have this problem alot. almost all quests ended with a grouop quest. often you could solo it with a few good potions and alittle planning but getting groups together is a pain. they've taken steps to help this, with a find the group channel and auto group find (not only for dungeons but for groups quests as well). but like said in teh article these are very unpopulated areas. experienced players power leveling will most like skip the group quests because the loot is unnecessary. what it really comes down to, like in all mmo games, is finding a guild or group of friends that will level with you or help you out when you get to those quests.

As for getting lost and not necessarily knowing which area to go to next, there ar sites for almost every mmo that will tell you where to go and the rewards for each quest. Some people might find this to =break immersion, but honestly, i find it aids it. not immersing in the fantasy, but immersing in the game

 

[Earthmonger]

What do you get when you add forced grouping and paid dungeons? One less player.

 

[Mushroomfreak111]

I rarely ever team up with people I don't know cause I'm just so tired of the idiot players. So when I find a group quest and there is no friends in the game that can help me I'm more than likely to just stop playing the game all together (if there is no way around the quest).

Fallen Earth has you drowning in group-quests, and although the rest of the game is really cool I just can't stand the constant looking for new groups!