Massively Single Player, Part 2
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
The hassle of forming a group in WoW has been almost entirely elimated by the new looking for group interface. You choose what dungeon you want to go to and what role you want to play and it does the rest automatically. You might have to wait 10 or 20 minutes or it might be instant depending on what role or dungeon you choose but either way it's completely hassle-free. It is the best addition to any MMO I've seen in a long time.
0_o Fallen Earth is one of the first MMO's that I've yet to really group in. I'm currently lvl 26 (I know, 19 levels to go) in S2 and I've yet to have a quest that I needed more then one other person for (my wife) and we're both freakin' crafters. (I'm dual pistol and she's melee)Miki91 said:
Most of the time both of us are soloing it up, but when we get a group quest that we can't solo, we'll save it for a night or two, then when we both have it bust it out in a couple minutes. :shrug: Maybe it's just my spec or it's having such good knowledge of the one other person's play style.
Except that you still have the other problems of dealing with random people, jerks and... well... dealing with people in general. I've used the WoW LFG tool to fill out a group before with some DPS, but there's no way I'm taking a PUG healer with me (10 Ulduar MT before I quit) even into most heroics. Even then, most of the time it was just for finding that last DPS spot.Zamn said:
You're not, but he left out a bunch of info. You will need to get to level 55 once, before you can start as a Death Knight. They're stupidly hax'd anyway because they very very rapidly earn gear which is way above anything anyone else can get at the level. So... if you're looking for a quickstart, it works great, but only if you've done it the long and painful way first.Woem said:
I guess it's my spec and whatnot then, cause I always go for looks above good gear and such^^. I've been ignoring most skills cause I want enough armor to wear something that would look great with my current equipment! This was my problem in WoW too, now a friend got me some cool lvl 80 gear tho^^Borrowed Time said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. My wife is a diva when it comes to how her character looks. In WoW she would refuse epics because it clashed with her warlock's robe. I don't know how many times I /facepalmed when she'd pass by an Ulduar epic because it was a contradictory color.Miki91 said:
One person can make a huge difference in Fallen Earth. My wife being melee is basically the tank (which is odd since I was a tank in WoW and she was DPS, talk about a role-reversal) while I have a lot of the support skills and some decent DPS. I generally sit back and toss out a couple shots, throw a heal, toss out some more shots till the thing is dead when we're grouping.
Solo though I just have to be careful about my pulls since my armor use skill is crap. (I'm a level above my wife and she has over 90 armor use skill, I'm barely past 60) As long as I don't get more then 2 on me and I am able to kill one of them before they get to me I'm gold. I really saw a huge increase in survivability once I was able to get my mutations though I still can bite off more then I can chew sometimes. (I went nano-manipulation and enhancement, crap for PVP but decent for PVE, and since my main is a crafter I won't be PVPing with him)
Look me up if you want, my character's name is Haiduc and my wife is Vedda. I might be able to toss some gear your way if you need it depending on your lvl. I think I can craft up to around 105 skill armor, weapon and ballistics crafting.
If they're going to force us to go through all that shit just to get team mates, they should just make money off selling customizable obidient NPC compantions to party with. Hasn't one game already tried that?
Yes, Warhammer did this very well....the game basically taught me to love the "random grouping" brought on by the rvr events and made me enjoy getting in to queue for the next pvp event, too. I don't play WAR anymore, but that experience made it easier to get back into and enjoy WoW, ironically....especially now that they have the Random Dungeon system.TsunamiWombat said:
Very true....it practically made WoW a new game to me, even after playing five years. I love the fact that it automatically groups you based on what you can handle, too, and you can choose your role; I haven't had to deal with my usual problem that stopped me from even getting in to an instance in the first place: the elitist uber-gamer control freak snob who wouldn't consider me because he didn't like my gear, insisted I respec, or otherwise wanted to get my play experience to fit his demands. I've played a couple dozen dungeons now in random dungeon groups and not one has wiped, even though everyone was playing their preferred roles with the gear they have as-is....hard to believe! I absolutely love that the system mostly removes the elists control freaks from the equation and lets people get back to having fun instead. Those guys can go do 25 man ICC raids or whatever. I'm fine with that; by the time Cataclysm roles around maybe Blizzard will find a way to open those up to casuals like myself as well, heh!Zamn said:
I'm seriously going to be dating myself with this admission, but what the heck. I really don't care to play MMOs due to past experience (and by that, I'm referencing nearly ten years in the past already). I played SWG (pre space release) and enjoyed myself immensely in this game BECAUSE I could solo that sucker. I based myself on Tattooine and set up shop as an architect and had a few lucrative contracts with other players for constructing homes and businesses for them to create their own honeycomb hideouts with their clans. I didn't care to join their clans, and they were more than happy to pay me a fair amount for the work. I didn't really give a dook about the story of progressing my character, I enjoyed the crafting. On the days I didn't have any work to do (aside from gathering resources from the extractors) I would then just basically go on a vacation of sorts to other places or planets to do a little sight-seeing and killing for fun. While this might sounds quite boring, I was having FUN. The overall point in these games is to have fun, and the general definition for this term is too broad. Fun for me was creating a virtual business that provided me enough income to do what I wanted. I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone, I wasn't attempting to be some online badass at the game... I was trying to enjoy myself in the given game universe. I have since tried other MMO and MMORPG games, but could not convince myself to stick around. As an admitted anti-social loner, I dislike having to beg strangers to assist me in questing. Either the level gap is sickening between you and a group, the lack of level equivalent players is discouraging, or just the fact that you don't play it as often as everyone else makes you appear to be a noob. In my case, the language barrier is often a problem, one in which I'd think that developers would work on a real-time translator to correct by now.
I unfortunately fall into the "casual" category because I like to play games when I feel like it. I don't care to get tied to playing a game for at least 4-8 hours a day to grind quests just to see the end of the game. It's like climbing Mount Everest... plenty of people have already done it, it's very challenging to get to the top, and after you reach the top you have to ask yourself, "Now what?". What is the point to reaching the end of a MMO? If you aren't smug about the accomplishment, then you use your experience as a mentor to lower level players so that they can achieve your success... or you just act like a big jerk and try to kill people ten or twenty levels below you to prove your level mastery in a game. If you take the latter path, what's the point? Why would you invest that much time and effort in something just to turn out to be a jerk about beating the game? Who do you think you are impressing? It reminds me of the South Park episode about WoW with the dork who just ran around killing everyone because of his higher level and the fact that no one could defeat him. Why does anyone do that in a game? Nobody but fellow jerks like that appreciate that behavior, but it is never frowned upon and gave birth to PvP instances in games. I understand doing that for fun or to settle a bet about who's the better player, but people who troll those spots and just kill people for their own bragging rights is stupid to me.
I like the multiplayer part of the games for the variety of people it invites to simultaneously allow others to take part in the same game as you if you feel the need to play with other people. Forcing everyone to cooperate takes the fun out of doing so because you are just thrown together often with random people to complete a small part of the game, then you never speak to those people again. Or in the condition of forming clans, it is often filled with people who attracted to a specific group based on what perks or gifts they can personally get from the experience without contributing anything. They still solo, but basically cheat the group by just taking from everyone without giving back. Sometimes these groups get so large that is too hard to control which people aren't helping, and eventually you stop caring as long as your character doesn't suffer.
For me personally, I liked being alone. Interacting with others as a shopkeeper and crafter is what made the game fun for me and provided me with a purpose that suited my desires for playing the game. I liked to create things that others needed and provide a service that in turn provided me with an income to explore the game at my leisure instead of being forced to do mission after mission to an end that I wasn't really that interested in. I like the SW universe and found it to be a nice backdrop to play in. I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone, I just wanted to have fun. If more MMOs took this idea to heart, they'd appeal to a lot of more "casual" gamers in my opinion. I apologize if I've repeated what a lot of others have already said.
I unfortunately fall into the "casual" category because I like to play games when I feel like it. I don't care to get tied to playing a game for at least 4-8 hours a day to grind quests just to see the end of the game. It's like climbing Mount Everest... plenty of people have already done it, it's very challenging to get to the top, and after you reach the top you have to ask yourself, "Now what?". What is the point to reaching the end of a MMO? If you aren't smug about the accomplishment, then you use your experience as a mentor to lower level players so that they can achieve your success... or you just act like a big jerk and try to kill people ten or twenty levels below you to prove your level mastery in a game. If you take the latter path, what's the point? Why would you invest that much time and effort in something just to turn out to be a jerk about beating the game? Who do you think you are impressing? It reminds me of the South Park episode about WoW with the dork who just ran around killing everyone because of his higher level and the fact that no one could defeat him. Why does anyone do that in a game? Nobody but fellow jerks like that appreciate that behavior, but it is never frowned upon and gave birth to PvP instances in games. I understand doing that for fun or to settle a bet about who's the better player, but people who troll those spots and just kill people for their own bragging rights is stupid to me.
I like the multiplayer part of the games for the variety of people it invites to simultaneously allow others to take part in the same game as you if you feel the need to play with other people. Forcing everyone to cooperate takes the fun out of doing so because you are just thrown together often with random people to complete a small part of the game, then you never speak to those people again. Or in the condition of forming clans, it is often filled with people who attracted to a specific group based on what perks or gifts they can personally get from the experience without contributing anything. They still solo, but basically cheat the group by just taking from everyone without giving back. Sometimes these groups get so large that is too hard to control which people aren't helping, and eventually you stop caring as long as your character doesn't suffer.
For me personally, I liked being alone. Interacting with others as a shopkeeper and crafter is what made the game fun for me and provided me with a purpose that suited my desires for playing the game. I liked to create things that others needed and provide a service that in turn provided me with an income to explore the game at my leisure instead of being forced to do mission after mission to an end that I wasn't really that interested in. I like the SW universe and found it to be a nice backdrop to play in. I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone, I just wanted to have fun. If more MMOs took this idea to heart, they'd appeal to a lot of more "casual" gamers in my opinion. I apologize if I've repeated what a lot of others have already said.
Fun has been slowly taking a backseat to pretension for decades, but it has only been recently that the effect has been hurried. I think we have very nearly completed our genocide of fun within video games (although despite this holocaust, fun has survived here and there).
I guess the same people that you hear about being grumpy that there are solo players at all, are cut from the same cloth as those that have tried (unsuccessfully) for years to remove all munchkins from Pen and Paper games. Those people really do miss the whole point of what is fun for one may not be fun for all.
For instance, a basketball is meant to be played by throwing it into a small metal ring suspended 7'-10' in the air. But heaven forbid some kids use it as a kick ball. I mean, we really need to put a stop to that shit right now! Don't they know how the game is supposed to be played?!?!?
*sigh*
I guess the same people that you hear about being grumpy that there are solo players at all, are cut from the same cloth as those that have tried (unsuccessfully) for years to remove all munchkins from Pen and Paper games. Those people really do miss the whole point of what is fun for one may not be fun for all.
For instance, a basketball is meant to be played by throwing it into a small metal ring suspended 7'-10' in the air. But heaven forbid some kids use it as a kick ball. I mean, we really need to put a stop to that shit right now! Don't they know how the game is supposed to be played?!?!?
*sigh*
I can tell you exactly why i Solo/Duo in just about ever MMORPG that i've ever played. Well, i'll be honest, it won't be so easy to explain as i may have made it seem with that statement.
In all honesty... the major reason is that community has changed drastically from what it used to be when MMORPGs started to gain momentum. Even multiplayer gaming communities have changed drastically. There was a time whne playing an FPS or an RTS or any competative or team oriented game was about getting to know the people around you and challenging yourself against their abilities. It was FAR les about "proving" who is more bad ass or insulting or simply trying to win at any and all cost. I hate to use this term, but there used to be a sense of "honor" in gaming. I suppose a better word is "respect".
However, there are other reasons. I prefer to Duo because i usually do it with a close friend of mine (The only one that also plays MMORPGs). We can talk about what ever for hours on end while killing hordes of what ever, thus anything grindy simply becomes, as was mentioned, the little game played between donig something entirely different. If i play without him, i'm obviously soloing. I don't like grouping because i don't enjoy dealing with people. I don't like finding them. I don't like /NOT/ talking to them (people don't talk about anything important if at all to each other i nthese games any more). I don't like relying on them. And i don't like the way people "share" (You know.. the priest who has a warrior alt so he feels he has to /need/ roll that blue battle axe that the game prevents him from trading to his character any how? ).
Once again, i solo/duo because i know what i'm dealing with that way, and because i just don't like the way games act now adays. When ever i defeat someone i na duel or challenge, i don't brag about it, i don't tea bag them, i dont' call them... obscene things probably best not written here. I respect their efforts, i'll even help them get better, or be waiting for the next challenge. I enjoy using my own wits and abilities (less my characters pre programmed parameters) to defeat things or solve things. This is also the appeal to Solo/Duo play. Things are harder. Fighting something in a group may make it ... easy or average in difficulty. Fighting that same thing, maybe with a level or two more thna usual by yourself or with a friend, and having a chance of victory that's based entirely on you spending time learning what tactics and strategies are available to you and how you can impliment them is far more rewarding of an EXPERIENCE (not necessarilly in gear or actual character xp) than rolling through it with a group. Atleast that is how i feel about it.
Lastly, i'd like to post my "suggestion" to fix this. Scalability and cross-level missions. One of these is seen in such games as City of Heros. Basically, how many people you bring, and what level of difficulty you set, determines how much you face and how hard the fight will be. To me, a system like this should be in just about every game. Why? It means that when you DO group, it's WORTH it, and when you don't group, you are slaughtered simply for trying to paly the game you bought and continue to pay for. And if you really want to go "Hard core" you can at any time you desire. When done right, it can be great for Solo, great for (my favorite) SMALL groups, great for full groups, and great for guilds all in one simple mechanic. Once again, Scalability. As for my second suggestion, cross-level missions, it is based on the concept of there being a pool of missions based on the faction or what ever that you are on, that is tailored to different levels, but still is inclusive of all of them. As an example:
Let's say level cap is 50. A couple of level 50 "generals" are in a guild and they have people of the "Commander" and "Leutinant" range (40 and 30 respectively). These sub leaders have people of various levels below them, from Recruit to i don't know... Veteran. This scenario is obviously a large scale one, something like defending their territory from a horde. Basically, the quest is generic "Defend your Castle", however the PARAMETERS are different based on your level. The parameters can be as simple as Recruit needs to kill 10 ... frog men and Leuitinant needs to kill 100 frog men. However, it can easily be something like Recruit/Veteran need to kill X amount of the Fodder/Soldiers while Lts need to take check points, Commanders need to take down base cames, and Generals pretty much need to win the battle whether that is defeating a boss or leading the charge to the main encampment. How do you keep the lower levels entertained when it gets to the end? Have the last fight basically be them holding off an "endless" swarm so that the mid levels can take down the help the boss has while the higher levels take on the boss itself. And of course, with Scalability also in play, even a clan full of "generals" can have a challenge as the quest would adnjust to what they are able to forseeably handle. This scenario can be palyed many, many different ways.. throughout a dungeon, in an open field... ect. It doesn't matter where... what matters is that no one is useless simply because they aren't the same level. Everyone can play, be part of something, and help the team succeed.
In all honesty... the major reason is that community has changed drastically from what it used to be when MMORPGs started to gain momentum. Even multiplayer gaming communities have changed drastically. There was a time whne playing an FPS or an RTS or any competative or team oriented game was about getting to know the people around you and challenging yourself against their abilities. It was FAR les about "proving" who is more bad ass or insulting or simply trying to win at any and all cost. I hate to use this term, but there used to be a sense of "honor" in gaming. I suppose a better word is "respect".
However, there are other reasons. I prefer to Duo because i usually do it with a close friend of mine (The only one that also plays MMORPGs). We can talk about what ever for hours on end while killing hordes of what ever, thus anything grindy simply becomes, as was mentioned, the little game played between donig something entirely different. If i play without him, i'm obviously soloing. I don't like grouping because i don't enjoy dealing with people. I don't like finding them. I don't like /NOT/ talking to them (people don't talk about anything important if at all to each other i nthese games any more). I don't like relying on them. And i don't like the way people "share" (You know.. the priest who has a warrior alt so he feels he has to /need/ roll that blue battle axe that the game prevents him from trading to his character any how? ).
Once again, i solo/duo because i know what i'm dealing with that way, and because i just don't like the way games act now adays. When ever i defeat someone i na duel or challenge, i don't brag about it, i don't tea bag them, i dont' call them... obscene things probably best not written here. I respect their efforts, i'll even help them get better, or be waiting for the next challenge. I enjoy using my own wits and abilities (less my characters pre programmed parameters) to defeat things or solve things. This is also the appeal to Solo/Duo play. Things are harder. Fighting something in a group may make it ... easy or average in difficulty. Fighting that same thing, maybe with a level or two more thna usual by yourself or with a friend, and having a chance of victory that's based entirely on you spending time learning what tactics and strategies are available to you and how you can impliment them is far more rewarding of an EXPERIENCE (not necessarilly in gear or actual character xp) than rolling through it with a group. Atleast that is how i feel about it.
Lastly, i'd like to post my "suggestion" to fix this. Scalability and cross-level missions. One of these is seen in such games as City of Heros. Basically, how many people you bring, and what level of difficulty you set, determines how much you face and how hard the fight will be. To me, a system like this should be in just about every game. Why? It means that when you DO group, it's WORTH it, and when you don't group, you are slaughtered simply for trying to paly the game you bought and continue to pay for. And if you really want to go "Hard core" you can at any time you desire. When done right, it can be great for Solo, great for (my favorite) SMALL groups, great for full groups, and great for guilds all in one simple mechanic. Once again, Scalability. As for my second suggestion, cross-level missions, it is based on the concept of there being a pool of missions based on the faction or what ever that you are on, that is tailored to different levels, but still is inclusive of all of them. As an example:
Let's say level cap is 50. A couple of level 50 "generals" are in a guild and they have people of the "Commander" and "Leutinant" range (40 and 30 respectively). These sub leaders have people of various levels below them, from Recruit to i don't know... Veteran. This scenario is obviously a large scale one, something like defending their territory from a horde. Basically, the quest is generic "Defend your Castle", however the PARAMETERS are different based on your level. The parameters can be as simple as Recruit needs to kill 10 ... frog men and Leuitinant needs to kill 100 frog men. However, it can easily be something like Recruit/Veteran need to kill X amount of the Fodder/Soldiers while Lts need to take check points, Commanders need to take down base cames, and Generals pretty much need to win the battle whether that is defeating a boss or leading the charge to the main encampment. How do you keep the lower levels entertained when it gets to the end? Have the last fight basically be them holding off an "endless" swarm so that the mid levels can take down the help the boss has while the higher levels take on the boss itself. And of course, with Scalability also in play, even a clan full of "generals" can have a challenge as the quest would adnjust to what they are able to forseeably handle. This scenario can be palyed many, many different ways.. throughout a dungeon, in an open field... ect. It doesn't matter where... what matters is that no one is useless simply because they aren't the same level. Everyone can play, be part of something, and help the team succeed.