ME3 ending is it really that bad?

RyuujinZERO

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Kahunaburger said:
BloatedGuppy said:
Kahunaburger said:
Off-topic: are there finally female Turians in Mass Effect 3?
For the last time, no. I keep telling you, you're going to need to go to Deviant.art for your Turian porn, Kahunaburger!
Haha, that's amazing. Still with the whole "female aliens stay in the kitchen on the home planet or look like supermodels" thing three games in? Although given the whole EDI thing I'm not exactly surprised...
Naw. We see female salarians and krogan in ME3, and they're no supermodel... not that that has ever stopped rule 34 or the furries (Thankfully no female vorcha, that'd be just plain scary), it's only turians that are kept in the kitchen this time 'round
 

T3hSource

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BloatedGuppy said:
spoiler snip
I'm not that big into roleplaying and I haven't invested 100+ hours into Shephard just to let him die,besides I want him to live with Tali on Rannoch after retirement :D
Besides letting "chaos" thrive makes sense to me,or whatever there left of it at that time.Personal preferences I guess.
 

Neonsilver

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Buretsu said:
ShadowsofHope said:
"Synthetics will always try to kill organics" was quite frankly a bullshit premises in itself, and really only applies to the Reapers themselves
And, you know, the GETH. You know, the synthetic race that was created to be expendable, and that genocide was attempted on when they started to show signs of intelligence? The synthetic race who then went on to kill organics, and really only stopped trying because there was a bigger threat to their existence.

Who knows how many similar events happened in previous extinction cycles? It's not really a logical stretch to imagine that the Reapers have seen it time and time again, even if the game doesn't directly hold your hand and tell you they have.
Did you even listen to anything legion said?

In the first war they stopped following the quarians when they were no longer a threat. During ME3 it were again the quarians who attacked, they only defended themselves.

The only geht who attacked first were the heretics, but the heretics are only a fraction of the geth. That would be like saying every human is a terrorist.
 

Tigerlily Warrior

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Rivenart said:
I read the leaked summaries and it didn't prepare me for how bad they actually are to witness.
Exactly. Even knowing about the leak couldn't prepare me. I've been reading articles, videos, and gaming sites about peoples response to the ending, this article from Gamefront is the best explanation for why people are unhappy.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
 

Kahunaburger

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RyuujinZERO said:
Kahunaburger said:
BloatedGuppy said:
Kahunaburger said:
Off-topic: are there finally female Turians in Mass Effect 3?
For the last time, no. I keep telling you, you're going to need to go to Deviant.art for your Turian porn, Kahunaburger!
Haha, that's amazing. Still with the whole "female aliens stay in the kitchen on the home planet or look like supermodels" thing three games in? Although given the whole EDI thing I'm not exactly surprised...
Naw. We see female salarians and krogan in ME3, and they're no supermodel... not that that has ever stopped rule 34 or the furries (Thankfully no female vorcha, that'd be just plain scary), it's only turians that are kept in the kitchen this time 'round
That's a little better. I'm guessing we meet exactly one of each?
 

ShadowsofHope

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Buretsu said:
ShadowsofHope said:
"Synthetics will always try to kill organics" was quite frankly a bullshit premises in itself, and really only applies to the Reapers themselves
And, you know, the GETH. You know, the synthetic race that was created to be expendable, and that genocide was attempted on when they started to show signs of intelligence? The synthetic race who then went on to kill organics, and really only stopped trying because there was a bigger threat to their existence.

Who knows how many similar events happened in previous extinction cycles? It's not really a logical stretch to imagine that the Reapers have seen it time and time again, even if the game doesn't directly hold your hand and tell you they have.
Wrong. Legion even tells you himself in the game, the Geth purposely allowed the remaining Quarian forces to flee into Exile beyond the Mass Relay because they did not desire war with their Creators, and felt no need to exterminate the entire Quarian race after the threat to their existence was halted. Heck, when you play the mission on Rannoch when Shepard enters the Geth network, it is shown through memory packets that many Geth even gave their own lives to protect their Quarian masters (the ones that sympathized with the Geth) from the Quarians that wished to destroy them, further reinforcing the fact that the Geth believe fully in self-determination of all living beings, and will fight to protect such.

The only reason the minority of Geth ("Heretics", as Legion to refers to them) joined Sovereign and the Reapers in the first game was because they were forced into that situation by the Quarians in order to protect themselves from Genocide. Sovereign and the Reapers gave them advanced AI upgrades that allowed them to function much like EDI does in her robot body, being able to process the same amount of information that ten regular Geth networked together could achieve - alone. In turn, the heretic Geth worshiped them as being the pinnacle of existence that they desired to aspire to - albeit, this put them into direct conflict with organics to appease the Reaper's goals.

Furthermore, Legion states that although the Reaper upgrades are promising for the Geth in terms of being an evolutionary step towards being more fully realized AI's, the Reapers also have no empathy or consideration towards the right to self-determination of other species that they intend to harvest solely for their own preservation. Which is something completely against what the majority of Geth existing would ever support, and is also the reason why the Geth majority never went beyond the Perseus Veil. They were content to live independently from the organic races of the galaxy, and felt no need to (in the conquering sense) encroach on organic life.

So no, if you played the game, you most definitely did not pay attention to any of the complex story developing and revealed during the Quarian/Geth portion of ME3.
 

ShadowsofHope

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Kahunaburger said:
RyuujinZERO said:
Kahunaburger said:
BloatedGuppy said:
Kahunaburger said:
Off-topic: are there finally female Turians in Mass Effect 3?
For the last time, no. I keep telling you, you're going to need to go to Deviant.art for your Turian porn, Kahunaburger!
Haha, that's amazing. Still with the whole "female aliens stay in the kitchen on the home planet or look like supermodels" thing three games in? Although given the whole EDI thing I'm not exactly surprised...
Naw. We see female salarians and krogan in ME3, and they're no supermodel... not that that has ever stopped rule 34 or the furries (Thankfully no female vorcha, that'd be just plain scary), it's only turians that are kept in the kitchen this time 'round
That's a little better. I'm guessing we meet exactly one of each?
Yeah. You meet the Krogan female "Eve" (she has a name, but I wont spoil it) at Sur'Kesh, whom has a big role in the Krogan/Tuchanka portion of the game, and you get to meet with the Dalatrass, the Salarian Matriarch during Turian/Krogan/Salarian negotiations. Neither are particular attractive, at least by human standards.
 

boag

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Sethran said:
I apologize my post wasn't worded very well, I have an unfortunate habit of miswording my meaning. I also wasn't intending to say that 'everyone who hates the ending does this', my only intention was to say that it happens.
its ok, it happens to the best of us.
 

boag

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boag said:
Sethran said:
I apologize my post wasn't worded very well, I have an unfortunate habit of miswording my meaning. I also wasn't intending to say that 'everyone who hates the ending does this', my only intention was to say that it happens.
its ok, it happens to the best of us.
Kahunaburger said:
Off-topic: are there finally female Turians in Mass Effect 3?
No but Garrus, puts on a little make up, so can have a game of pretend.
 

Wharrgarble

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Spoilers in the video of course, but I found it rather interesting. These are the various endings to Mass Effect 3 that you can get, synced up to play at the same time.
 

Izzy1320

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As someone who usually reads these threads and rarely comments in them, I hope that my viewpoint on this matter can provide some further discussion. This topic, however, is both near and dear to my heart, and I feel a rare compulsion to speak out on it. As with my previous post in an Oblivion vs. Morrowind thread, I apologize for what might establish itself as a long-winded and woefully extensive post.

The first Mass Effect game I played was in fact Mass Effect 2. I fell in love with the game, but not necessarily for the story, or even the gameplay itself, which had been tightened significantly from the first game. Almost directly after finishing it, I looked back on the experience and immediately went and purchased Mass Effect 1, in order to get a deeper and further understanding of this fantastic science fiction world that Bioware had created.

Mass Effect to me is special, because it not only provides a tight, clean, and utterly unique science fiction experience, but because it honestly makes you care about the individuals within that universe. Through your interactions with the people and races in the Milky Way galaxy, you and your Shepard become invested, in one way or another, in the world and the characters that inhabit it. I became so enamored of the shipmates and friends that Shepard met and gathered on his travels that many of the moments in the game still stay with me. I wonder how many of us can still remember the first time we met Wrex, or Garrus. Ashley, Kaiden, Liara, Tali'Zorah. These are names that still strike at me, because of the choices I made in their evolvement as characters in a story that spans hours upon hours of gameplay.

Mass Effect has been one of a very small number of games that truly encourages us to not always imagine the big picture, but to look back at the smaller details, the tiny stories within the vast epic that flush out the character of the world itself. The constant financial machinations of the Volus, The horrors that the Krogan suffered through the genophage, or the difficult decisions that Salarians had to make. Even events before the series found importance, the First Contact war between Turians and Humans leaving a lingering animosity between the two species, a cold civility.

In this view of retrospective, Mass Effect 2 drove gamers even deeper into the lore of the galaxy. We were introduced to the seedy, exciting underbelly of the stars, away from the bright lights and flowing water of the citadel, to the dangerous apartments and nightclubs on Omega. Afterlife is still (to my mind) one of the best clubs/bars ever found in a video game, and it also provided a new face, the dangerous Asari Aria T'loak. Although a vague and mysterious individual, the few small pieces of information that Shepard discovers about her past paint the portrait of a life lived on the edge, far removed from the bright, civilized image of Asari portrayed by the individuals in Mass Effect 1.

The Krogans were fleshed out as well, their barren, dusty world of Tuchanka brought to life with history and desperation, the krogans having destroyed their own world with nuclear war. There, if the proper decisions were made in the first Mass Effect, we were reunited with Wrex, who was actually one of my favorite characters from the first game.

As Mass Effect 2 brought us back to the old connections we had formed in the first game, it also brought forth new ones, and gave us the opportunity to invest as much, if not more, in them. The 'perfect' Miranda, focused on her work and her responsibilties in Cerberus. Jacob, whose doubts colored his relations with the organization he worked for. Mordin, the brilliant and loquacious Salarian, who had lived a complicated life before arriving on the Normandy, involved in a restructuring of the Genophage. Jack, the cold and dangerous biotic experiment, whose past hid more than she was willing to reveal to most people. The list goes on with Samara, Thane, Grunt and Legion, as well.

Now, well I bring all this forward professing a love for Mass Effect, I do it only to illustrate my point. All three games provide a rich, engrossing experience, with characters that the gamer is encouraged to devote time and interest to, giving us reasons to care about the decisions we make, with consequences echoing throughout the series, including the death of Ashley or Kaiden on Virmire, as well as the possible death of Wrex (but honestly...who would want that to happen?). The Suicide Mission at the end of Mass Effect 2 gave even more reason to devote our resources and time to the crew of the Normandy, lest we lose them in the final fight.

Throughout my playthrough of Mass Effect 3, I found myself easily slipping back into the world and characters of the game. (Effectively, massive Spoilers follow hereafter, but I'm not done yet, sorry)

The choices I had made in the past two games all came back to follow me through the climactic story of the third, characters that I had met, shipmates that had followed me, friends that I had made. They lived, they laughed, they drank, and some of them died (RIP Mordin Solus, hero of the krogan people, and Legion, the first Geth to truly develop individuality, Kal'Reegar, the Quarian who saved Turians by repairing their communications under fire, and many more), while Shepard raced through the universe, trying desperately to recruit further help for the war back home. I felt deeper connections to the characters than ever before, desparate because of their plight, and what little they could do about it as individuals. Garrus, pulled into Turian military matters, forced to make decisions that could save or doom his entire planet. Tali, placed in a position of power that practically gave her power over the Entire Migrant fleet, the decisions that she made echoing throughout Quarian history. Liara, watching the destruction of her homeworld, Thessia. At the same time, the player stopped and grabbed at what small victories they could find. The individuality of EDI, as she pursued deeper understandings of sentience, what romance actually meant. James Vega's new outlook on the series providing a viewpoint completely different from the other members of the crew. Even meeting old crewmembers like Grunt, Samara, Thane, and Jack were small victories in their own right, a reckoning back to decisions that had saved them.

All of the decisions made throughout the series felt important, like I had actually done something right, saving Maelon's data so that the genophage cure could be completed, Letting the Geth rewrite themselves and find their own individuality, working together with the Quarians for the first time since their creation. Turians and Krogan setting aside their old differences to join together against a much larger and more dangerous threat. I was proud that I had brought the full force of the galaxy to bear on the Reaper fleet, confident that I could stop them, with my full bar of War Assets, so painstakingly filled and padded with every detail I could find, even investing time in the multiplayer (which actually works quite well, despite my initial hesitations at first hearing about it.) so that I could boost my galactic readiness to full. Armed with the might of the galaxy, I set forth to prove once and for all that the organic beings of the galaxy would not be forced to relive the cycle of processing any more. And then the ending came.

I sat there in disbelief at first, my brain still trying to register what had just happened. I had fully expected the climactic confrontation with the Elusive man to be the end, as Shepard sat watching the battle outside. But no, it was not. I was given three choices, none of which suited the character I had spent so much time on at all. My Shepard certainly didn't want to destroy all synthetic beings. She had invested so much of her resources in saving both the Geth and the Quarians, as well as encouraging the burgeoning relationship between EDI and Joker. (who I am very sorry not to have mentioned at all throughout this entire spiel, Joker being one of my favorite characters, the knot that ties the games together) She had no compulsion to control the Reapers, a conclusion that the Illusive Man had reached, for enslaving an entire race, no matter how violent or despicable they were, was simply wrong. (In case you haven't guessed by now... I was pure paragon, through and through) Neither was she one to make the ultimate sacrifice, because she had too much to come back to. I had spent the entire series forming her connections with everyone the world had to offer, and even falling in love with Liara, sharing her hopes and dreams with the Asari. To simply sacrifice herself was unacceptable to me, and to the story I had crafted through playing.

I turned back to the Catalyst. I looked around, trying to find another option. I unloaded bullet after bullet helplessly towards the ghostly child, attempting to deny the choices in favor of winning the old fashioned way. Then I tried each of the three endings, and found them almost identical, excepting a varied color palette. I was left with far more answers, and a saddened realization that my Shepard, and all of her relations...were gone. Liara would be left alone, without her love at her side, Garrus would no longer have a friend with which to reminisce about the old times. The Normandy was gone, crashed, and Joker was left without the ship that had defined his life for the last three games, even if he remained with EDI. Mass Effect Relays throughout the galaxy were destroyed, preventing the Military forces of the Turian, Krogan, and Salarians from returning home. The Quarian Migrant fleet was stuck as well, despite having finally reclaimed their home planet, unable once more to return to it. And throughout all of this... I learned nothing about the aftermath, besides that the Normandy would crash on a seemingly deserted planet... which in itself is a hopelessly saddening realization. The world that I had spent so much time in, this galaxy of Mass Effect... was essentially over. Without the Mass Effect relays, travel between the systems would be so hopelessly lengthened that relationships between the races would be almost impossible in the future. The seat of galactic government was destroyed, and the characters who I had watched, helped, talked to, laughed with, and loved...were stranded on an empty planet, with little hope for survival. I felt betrayed.

Now, Mass Effect 3 is still a wonderful game. The only problem with the ending is that it is not, by my definition, really 'Mass Effect'. It does not pay attention to earlier decisions, it does not extend the story, or even provide us with a fitting conclusion to a series that we have all spent time playing. It doesn't do justice to the characters who the developers spent so much time on, or the relationships established between them and Shepard. It reminded me of the ending of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where Adam Jensen narrates over a series of grainy, golden photographs, but even that provided some closure. The three options here are the basest of black or white choices, in a series that had thrived by providing shades of grey. The hero that we made, that survived throughout the odds, dies because a strange ghostly child presents them with three choices, and little explanation between them. The spirit of Mass Effect was alive and well until these last few minutes, when it was chewed up, spat out, and subsequently tossed aside in favor of an ABC option choice, which only satisfies those who enjoy a desperate, final ending. I wanted to know more of the story, whether Shepard and Liara would eventually settle down to raise their own children, whether EDI and Joker would find their own happiness, or Tali and Garrus. Whether Miranda would finally find peace after her father's death, if the Geth and the Quarians could truly work together, If Vega could prosper in the N7 program and become an inspiring leader in his own right. I suppose, in the end, I wanted to see my Shepard putting aside her life of conflict and war for a lasting peace for herself and whomever she finally placed her love and trust in, and none of the options presented could give me that.
 

kennripper

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It is an absolute tragedy that the game ended in such a way. Not because of the outcome of the story, ultimately the themes and such at the end are quite transcendent,

My problem is the lack of follow through. Every single one of the endings could have been explored far more thoroughly, as they all seemed to be capable of having very deep and far reaching consequences.

The ending felt cheap and hollow, especially when you consider that any Mass Effect fan worth his salt plays the game not just for the solid game play, but also for the ingenious narrative and interesting characters. Sadly, the last two aspects were simply neglected in the final moments of the game.
 

Baradiel

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Every single moment of Mass Effect 3 was incredible up until the very end. Final battle is epic, but the "choices" if I can call them that, are just... insane.
 

teh_Canape

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CmRet said:
I liked the ending I got. I thought it was fitting and a very good ending to Shepherd's story. Especially the scene after the credits. I loved it and I felt completely satisfied with the ending.
so much this
at first I didn't like it because I accidentally picked the one I didn't want
but when I restarted the finale and picked the one I did want, I not only enjoyed it, but found it to be the perfect closure to my mass effect
 

scorptatious

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No it really isn't. While I can't say the ending is perfect, I think people are overreacting to all this. Now can we please just move o... Oh who am I kidding. As soon as Yahtzee does a video on Mass Effect 3 this whole thing is going to come back in full force.
 

Sexy Devil

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Buretsu said:
ShadowsofHope said:
"Synthetics will always try to kill organics" was quite frankly a bullshit premises in itself, and really only applies to the Reapers themselves
And, you know, the GETH. You know, the synthetic race that was created to be expendable, and that genocide was attempted on when they started to show signs of intelligence? The synthetic race who then went on to kill organics, and really only stopped trying because there was a bigger threat to their existence.

Who knows how many similar events happened in previous extinction cycles? It's not really a logical stretch to imagine that the Reapers have seen it time and time again, even if the game doesn't directly hold your hand and tell you they have.
This is so unbelievably wrong and it's incredibly clear you didn't pay attention at all on Rannoch. The Geth didn't start the war; the Quarians started seeing signs of intelligence and started killing them. The Geth just defended themselves and as soon as they knew they were safe they stopped pursuing the Quarians. They got pushed into siding with the Reapers because they were going to be wiped out otherwise.
 

Netrigan

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SonOfVoorhees said:
They are fine, just could have been done better without reusing the same CGI with a different colour depending on your choice. I think people wanted a good/bad ending. One in which the reapers lost and we win, an a second where we lose the war and the reapers win. Thats very simple and i feel people would have moaned if they did that. I like that the choice was made, we won but at a huge cross - and sometimes freedom has a massive cost.
Honestly, I didn't really expect a good or bad ending, as all the Mass Effect games have pretty much ended the same way for everyone, as the next game has to pick up from that one. Any choice you make will ultimately be superficial on a macro level, but could open or close interpersonal options.

I think what I expected was a Fallout style epilogue, where we learn how all the choices we made affected the post-Reaper. Mind you, this becomes a bit problematic as the game has never been particularly shy about pointing you at the "correct" decision. Such as if you're completely honorable in your interaction with the Krogan, then it's clear that Wrex and Eve are set to alter their race for the better. Be aggressive in your dealing with them, and it's clear that they'll return to their warlike ways as soon as they are able. Had they done such an epilogue, I have no doubt that they're be some ideal, utopian galaxy order that is only achievable via the Paragon option, while Renegades would be stuck with aggressive species on all borders.

I would have loved to see unexpected consequences to the action, such as supporting both the Krogan and the Rachni would result in one horrible outcome, as the Krogan seem pretty gung-ho about waging war on the Rachni. Or perhaps supporting the Geth would end up a bad influence on EDI. Or perhaps the only way to achieve peace would be backstabbing the Krogan, Rachni, and Geth thus consolidating power in the Council... which would be an ideal solution achievable only through despicable means. But, really, such a messy epilogue was always pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking on my part.

In the end, I think the reason why Mass Effect's finale ended up falling so short is that it's not the finale. They're planning more games in the ME Universe, so they had to come up with various endings that have only superficial differences from each other. If they can't paper over the differences with a substitute character or a cloned Queen, then many players would be unable to continue on in their universe. Therefore, they can't resolve any of the galactic issues that we've been wrestling with for three games. The Krogan have to be recognizably Krogan no matter what you do. I imagine the Quarians and Geth will have a very superficial role in future games (or featured greatly reduced numbers who somehow escaped their possible fate). Ultimately, we're doing nothing that changes the plot of the next Mass Effect game, merely changing conversation options... and I think this is at the heart of all the complaints about our choices being meaningless. We can affect nothing so long as the series continues.
 

boag

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I love the Ending now thats its been revealed the final choice is indoctrination.