ME3 Indoctrination theory analysis

[Scabadus]

Thinking about this theory, I've realised it wouldn't be an unprecedented step in storytelling that risked total financial and cultural failure for Bioware. It's not the biggest gamble in all of gaming history, a gamble that EA would never have made. It's actually be done before, with the exact same mechanics stearing you down a pre-determined path, pulling you in and making you question the writing before ripping back the curtain and revealing that as you were screaming at your character to do the smart choice that is SO OBVIOUS, you, personally, would have done exactly the same thing. Because you, actualy you, would also have been forced to do the bidding of those controling you, forced to choose between the paths they set out for you instead of choosing with total free will.

So yeah, maybe Bioware did just fuck up. Maybe it's just poor writing. Maybe trying to read a decent ending out of this is grasping at straws. But would you kindly stop using the argument that it's too much of a step and would never have been allowed by the money-holders?

 

[weirdee]

I'm not sure if the moneyholders themselves would actually understand the entire concept.

of course, they probably didn't care at that point either, it's like "bioware is printing money, we shouldn't screw with their processes too much"

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I've ready a lot of posts and I am inclined to believe the indoctrination variant over any other theories.

This particular link to an alternative ending is really what something that I fully support and would like to see this kind of resolution: http://arkis.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125?offset=20#comments

Would like to find out what you guys/girls think bout that ending.

 

[ozium]

Shepard is definitely indoctrinated. I noticed this at the start o my second play through. Notice how that little kid is only shown when Shepard is looking at him. When he was in the ventilation shaft and Shepard was talking to him the kid suddenly disappears when Anderson calls Shepard Implying that Shepard was dreaming. Most importantly, during the end of the first mission when Shepard gets on the Normandy and Anderson says he's not coming, Shepard sees the kid getting onto a space shuttle. Notice how nobody even sees the kid or helps him get up. The soldier in the shuttle just stands there looking straight ahead.

The Kid Isn't real.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

Technically the "final boss fight" is the like, 16 Brutes followed by never ending waves of Banshees and Marauders that come when you're making your stand by the mobile missile launchers. While not necessarily as epic and climactic as fighting against Saren or the Human Reaper, it certainly was a LOT more challenging than either of those fights.

But I do understand what you're getting at, there's no "central villain" to confront at the end.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Shepard is definitely indoctrinated. I noticed this at the start o my second play through. Notice how that little kid is only shown when Shepard is looking at him. When he was in the ventilation shaft and Shepard was talking to him the kid suddenly disappears when Anderson calls Shepard Implying that Shepard was dreaming. Most importantly, during the end of the first mission when Shepard gets on the Normandy and Anderson says he's not coming, Shepard sees the kid getting onto a space shuttle. Notice how nobody even sees the kid or helps him get up. The soldier in the shuttle just stands there looking straight ahead.

The Kid Isn't real.

QFT..also you can't hear the kid moving in the ventilation shaft(his steps) + the nightmare scenes you hear Reaper growls,which comes to show that hes in the first stages of indoctrination(check the codex if you don't believe me).

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

We are not trying to make it better. Nothing will make it better. We are trying to understand it. If your only goal is to be angry, you can do it somewhere else.

This exchange is over.

Come on, you had the opportunity to have like seven different Mass Effect references in that sentence!

Something akin to

Zeel, you have become an annoyance. We only wish to understand, not incite.

This exchange is over.

Need to save some for later though.

Just... what exactly are you talking about, may I ask?

Bioware is known for making THE best twist in a story in gaming history. If you played KoTOR you should know that.

This theory we have is just a theory. Nothing more. But I would very much like to think that Bioware didn't lose it's touch and that they can still pull of big story twists. If not, well, may they rest in peace because they're dead to me if this ending doesn't change.

I would actually like this theory to be wrong as well as the actual ending they gave us. I want them to surprise us with something we didn't think of.

 

[weirdee]

Snip

Technically the "final boss fight" is the like, 16 Brutes followed by never ending waves of Banshees and Marauders that come when you're making your stand by the mobile missile launchers. While not necessarily as epic and climactic as fighting against Saren or the Human Reaper, it certainly was a LOT more challenging than either of those fights.

But I do understand what you're getting at, there's no "central villain" to confront at the end.

Heh.

The "final villain" is yourself.

You literally have to fight every impulse in your mind to make peace the Reapers or what they do in order to break free.

Everything leading up to this point was attempting to lead you to believe that the Reapers could have been accepted into your life in one way or another, but not in the game, but with you. This is why the choices get more complex with greater EMS, and change depending on whether or not you left the Collector base intact. If you stopped caring about the fate of the universe or are simply incapable of doing anything to save it, you've already made your choice, and there is nothing you can do to change the future.

But more importantly, all of the game up to this point is marked by what you did. Yes, it's not accounted for in the endings directly. Those actions are imprinted on YOU, instead. It's how your see yourself, or perhaps just how you see your character ingame, but that character is also an extension of you. Shepard does not have much more command over his mind at this point. He/She is relying on your judgement. This is how indoctrination works. It poses itself as an idea in your head that doesn't seem entirely unreasonable. Perfectly rational, normal people, even people with strong mental control or ridiculous willpower fell victim to it, and that's how it worked. If you let any shred of doubt linger in your mind that there is a valid reason to accept the viewpoint or presence of the Reapers, either by your own logic or justification of being incharacter, then you and/or your Shepard proxy have lost.

Mass Effect is ultimately about the choices you make. The "climactic" battle being the culmination of those decisions on YOUR REAL LIFE MIND is perhaps a most fitting ending.

Or rather, it is the ending, if they succeeded.

It feels like Bioware is just waiting for people to come to grips with it to reveal what's behind the last curtain.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

Technically the "final boss fight" is the like, 16 Brutes followed by never ending waves of Banshees and Marauders that come when you're making your stand by the mobile missile launchers. While not necessarily as epic and climactic as fighting against Saren or the Human Reaper, it certainly was a LOT more challenging than either of those fights.

But I do understand what you're getting at, there's no "central villain" to confront at the end.

Heh.

The "final villain" is yourself.

You literally have to fight every impulse in your mind to make peace the Reapers or what they do in order to break free.

Everything leading up to this point was attempting to lead you to believe that the Reapers could have been accepted into your life in one way or another, but not in the game, but with you. This is why the choices get more complex with greater EMS, and change depending on whether or not you left the Collector base intact. If you stopped caring about the fate of the universe or are simply incapable of doing anything to save it, you've already made your choice, and there is nothing you can do to change the future.

But more importantly, all of the game up to this point is marked by what you did. Yes, it's not accounted for in the endings directly. Those actions are imprinted on YOU, instead. It's how your see yourself, or perhaps just how you see your character ingame, but that character is also an extension of you. Shepard does not have much more command over his mind at this point. He/She is relying on your judgement. This is how indoctrination works. It poses itself as an idea in your head that doesn't seem entirely unreasonable. Perfectly rational, normal people, even people with strong mental control or ridiculous willpower fell victim to it, and that's how it worked. If you let any shred of doubt linger in your mind that there is a valid reason to accept the viewpoint or presence of the Reapers, either by your own logic or justification of being incharacter, then you and/or your Shepard proxy have lost.

Mass Effect is ultimately about the choices you make. The "climactic" battle being the culmination of those decisions on YOUR REAL LIFE MIND is perhaps a most fitting ending.

Or rather, it is the ending, if they succeeded.

It feels like Bioware is just waiting for people to come to grips with it to reveal what's behind the last curtain.

Soooooooo Shepard has been Indoctrinated by the player? o.o

 

[weirdee]

No, the PLAYER is being indoctrinated. Some people play as if the character and themselves are separate, but unless they truly understand the situation for what it's worth, then that divide is rendered meaningless. It is like economists attempting to understand a system that they themselves are a part of, but thinking they are objective observers when they are not.

 

[boag]

Go read this Thread, Indoctrination is pretty much confirmed now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354425-Bioware-allows-the-release-of-The-Final-Hours-of-Mass-Effect-3-a-tell-all-app-for-2-99-WTF#14074722

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Go read this Thread, Indoctrination is pretty much confirmed now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354425-Bioware-allows-the-release-of-The-Final-Hours-of-Mass-Effect-3-a-tell-all-app-for-2-99-WTF#14074722

It looks like they're teasing us. But in a good way. Like they're preparing us. I doubt EA was able to indoctrinate them so much that they would resort to fucking with us and hurting our feelings without any reason. Something is coming.

 

[Zen Toombs]

I've ready a lot of posts and I am inclined to believe the indoctrination variant over any other theories.

This particular link to an alternative ending is really what something that I fully support and would like to see this kind of resolution: http://arkis.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125?offset=20#comments

Would like to find out what you guys/girls think bout that ending.

LOVED IT. It is so very, very good.

Shepard is definitely indoctrinated. I noticed this at the start o my second play through. Notice how that little kid is only shown when Shepard is looking at him. When he was in the ventilation shaft and Shepard was talking to him the kid suddenly disappears when Anderson calls Shepard Implying that Shepard was dreaming. Most importantly, during the end of the first mission when Shepard gets on the Normandy and Anderson says he's not coming, Shepard sees the kid getting onto a space shuttle. Notice how nobody even sees the kid or helps him get up. The soldier in the shuttle just stands there looking straight ahead.

The Kid Isn't real.

Hmm, interesting. Reminds me of Black Ops.

 

[ThatSwedishGuy]

There are a couple of things that annoy me with the Indoctrination theory (and it is just a theory, the ending works on its own, it's just sudden and not very well written) and one of the prime issues I have with this is the fact that Destroy would be the ONLY right answer... no, just no. I am Paragon, I would NEVER choose the destruction of an entire race and my friend if there was another solution. Bioware has been very careful about making sure that the player has always been able to choose Renegade or Paragon without it COMPLETELY breaking the game. I have a similar issue with the "Do the Renegade option or DIE!" segment with TIM but the truth is that if you've done thing right, you HAVE a Paragon way out earlier so it's not as clear cut as "Choose Renegade or you get the shit ending." It's not in line with what Mass Effect has established purely gameplay mechanic wise earlier, it's practically an even BIGGER betrayal of the game than having the ending not show us the consequences of our earlier choices. So if that is the truth, then it's an even bigger F*CK YOU to the player than the ending that's in there now.

A couple of other things I've heard that supposedly supports this theory but I find a bit iffy:

"Shepard stops limping when you pick Destroy." This supposedly suggests that he's regaining his senses but let's not forget that he RUN towards the Synthesis option so that's not really solid evidence.

"TIM is indoctrination, Anderson is humanity" Some people suggest that the whole debate between Anderson and TIM is the battle between the indoctrination and Shepard's own humanity or some shit like that... cute theory but that basically means his humanity dies when Anderson dies? Yeah, not exactly supporting the theory.

"Shepard's eyes become like TIM's in the end" He's augmented, a cyborg, from what I understand, basically the only thing that remains of Shepard is his brain. He was explosively decompressed and then fell through an atmosphere, there would be nothing left of him or very little. Cybernetic augmentations are not rare in Mass Effect, every single biotic human needs implants in order to utilize their abilities fully, it's not a huge conspiracy.

"Gun fires forever" This is in the universe that invented guns that could fire without the need for ammunition... just saying. Besides, it's called creative freedom, it'd break the flow of the segment just a bit if you suddenly had to stop and reload. It's symbolic, let it go.

"The Kid isn't real" Again, this is symbolism, not a huge conspiracy. The kid is supposed to represent the innocence of Earth. It gets destroyed. In many ways, the kid simply represents the fact that Shepard can't save everyone or Earth, it's too late. It's hamfisted as hell and really lazy but if you look at it realistically, there's nothing to suggest the kid isn't real, the suggestion is there but it could just as well just be Shepard's tired, worn out mind playing tricks on him.
And we know Reapers get into people's heads so there's no reason Starchild can't do the same since he, you know, came up with the Reapers. Maybe there's simply nothing sinister about it, maybe he scanned Shepard's brain, found an image of a boy that has seemingly had a huge impact on him, and chose that to approach. It's distant enough from him to not seem threatening (Imagine if he appeared as a Reaper!) and not important enough for it to seem devious (appearing as a loved one).

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the endings, I felt cheated that I didn't get to see all my choices play out in the final battle but I prefer it over the complete rug pulling that would be if they went with "Ha, just a dream!"

 

[boag]

Go read this Thread, Indoctrination is pretty much confirmed now.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354425-Bioware-allows-the-release-of-The-Final-Hours-of-Mass-Effect-3-a-tell-all-app-for-2-99-WTF#14074722

It looks like they're teasing us. But in a good way. Like they're preparing us. I doubt EA was able to indoctrinate them so much that they would resort to fucking with us and hurting our feelings without any reason. Something is coming.

I dont care anymore, I am running to hills Praising Indoctrination, because the Destroy ending is literally a big middle finger to the reapers.

 

[Casual Shinji]

"good" ending (blue) one is about controlling the Reapers. The very same thing that The Illusive Man thought he could do. And that was considered the wrong choice all along.

-The middle ending is the most vague one of them all and it's basically making Shepard kill himself. Or is he allowing Reapers to implant him with Reaper tech the same way Saren allowed Sovereign in ME1?

-The "bad" ending (red), is actually the one that makes you do what you've been trying to do all along. It's what the game was all about. And now it's presented with a color that represents a bad moral choice (sneaky Bioware).

Then why are the "Destroy" and "Control" options highlighted by Anderson (Destroy) and TIM (Control)? Signifying that Shepard already knew what was what.

Had Shep truly been indoctrinated wouldn't the Reapers make him invision Anderson doing the wrong thing (Control) and TIM doing the right thing (Destroy)? One of the reasons why I chose to destroy the Reapers was because I knew (and saw) it was be what Anderson would've done.

Why wouldn't Harbi use your own trusted companions (Anderson/Garrus/Liara) against you if you were so indoctrinated, instead of some random kid?

I've never seen Bioware be at all subtle when presenting moral choices and I'm not inclined to believe it now.

This theory is BS, and the endings are and always will be crap.

 

[Athinira]

Shepherd doesn't get indoctrinated at the last second, she's been indoctrinated from the start of the game. Ever notice how nobody sees the little boy and how he just dissapears from the vent?

He disappears while Shephard looks away. And she sees him later having made his way to the shuttles and climbing on board. You even see him even earlier in the game (playing with the model-alliance ship). Also, of course nobody sees him in the vent... Shephard is the only one who looked there.

There is no rocket science about it. It's pretty straigthforward. There is no symptoms, no "doubts" regarding the fight against the reapers (which is one of the sure-fire signs of indoctrination, that people start to doubt fighting the reapers or how to do it), Shephard is determined all the way to the end to fight the reapers. There is NO indication (other than people seeing what they like to see) that Shephard suffers from Indoctrination from the start of the game, nor towards the end.

Anyone who believes that hasn't been paying attention to how indoctrination ACTUALLY works, and i would tell them to go play Mass Effect 1 and 2 again and pay attention to how Indoctrination affects people. It's both explained and demonstrated pretty well in those games, so how people keep getting it confused with the things happening in Mass Effect 3 is beyond me.

 

[Korten12]

Shepherd doesn't get indoctrinated at the last second, she's been indoctrinated from the start of the game. Ever notice how nobody sees the little boy and how he just dissapears from the vent?

He disappears while Shephard looks away. And she sees him later having made his way to the shuttles and climbing on board. You even see him even earlier in the game (playing with the model-alliance ship). Also, of course nobody sees him in the vent... Shephard is the only one who looked there.

There is no rocket science about it. It's pretty straigthforward. There is no symptoms, no "doubts" regarding the fight against the reapers (which is one of the sure-fire signs of indoctrination, that people start to doubt fighting the reapers or how to do it), Shephard is determined all the way to the end to fight the reapers. There is NO indication (other than people seeing what they like to see) that Shephard suffers from Indoctrination from the start of the game, nor towards the end.

Anyone who believes that hasn't been paying attention to how indoctrination ACTUALLY works, and i would tell them to go play Mass Effect 1 and 2 again and pay attention to how Indoctrination affects people. It's both explained and demonstrated pretty well in those games, so how people keep getting it confused with the things happening in Mass Effect 3 is beyond me.

When shepard looks away, he hears a reaper growl, the exact noise you hear when a reaper indoctrination is broken. Also when the boy is at the shuttle, NO ONE acknowleges him, no soldier helps him get on, which consdiering they were in a rush they would have picked him up and thrown him on. Instead no one goes up to him and he gets on the shuttle by himself.

And Indoctrination is described as:


It describes that indoctrination can cause people to see hallunications of ghostly presecens. The boy says when Shepard tells him to come is: "You can't help me.." Which is odd for a child to say when hell is breaking loose and then wierd to vanish just as Anderson appears. Because had the boy gone with Shepard, Anderson wouldn't see the boy and would think that Shepard was being indoctrinated which would have exposed it.

Also it seems odd that at the end, that the Cataylst paints Destroying the Reapers as evil and is the only ending you can possibly survive and tries to make the other two other options seem better as those two you do die no matter what which means the indoctrination worked.

Also on the Datapad App for the ipod which connects to your game, after you beat the game, you get a message no matter which ending.

http://www.examiner.com/video-game-in-honolulu/mass-effect-3-ending-message-photo

Now how would you get this message if the endings had happened like they showed?

 

[Merrick_HLC]

Shepherd doesn't get indoctrinated at the last second, she's been indoctrinated from the start of the game. Ever notice how nobody sees the little boy and how he just dissapears from the vent?

He disappears while Shephard looks away. And she sees him later having made his way to the shuttles and climbing on board. You even see him even earlier in the game (playing with the model-alliance ship). Also, of course nobody sees him in the vent... Shephard is the only one who looked there.

snip

To be somewhat fair.
Having recently started another playthrough.
No one else see's/takes note of the kid all through the Earth based segment.

He isn't playing with any other kids when he's playing with the ship.
Even as he is climbing aboard the transport no one else seems to notice him.

The only suggestion anyone else noticed him is the fact the Alliance soldier does the 'all aboard' knock on the door after he's in.... but that's hardly proof since he never actually even looked in the kids direction.

Note: I'm neither for nor opposed to the theory, just pointing this out there.