ME3 Indoctrination theory analysis

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I've been analyzing the indoctrination theory and I am starting to believe it might be true. A lot of things about Mass Effect lore seem to suggest that. It's really the most logical explanation.

Consider this:

"good" ending (blue) one is about controlling the Reapers. The very same thing that The Illusive Man thought he could do. And that was considered the wrong choice all along.

-The middle ending is the most vague one of them all and it's basically making Shepard kill himself. Or is he allowing Reapers to implant him with Reaper tech the same way Saren allowed Sovereign in ME1?

-The "bad" ending (red), is actually the one that makes you do what you've been trying to do all along. It's what the game was all about. And now it's presented with a color that represents a bad moral choice (sneaky Bioware).

That's actually the good choice. We've just been manipulated into believing it is the bad one because Bioware knows that we think red color symbolizes bad moral choice. They manipulated with us like we were sex slaves.

The last sequence wasn't a choice of ending at all, it was a battle of will. Choosing the red ending, Shepard survives if your EMS is over 5000, and he wakes up in a pile of rubble. The Citadel was destroyed in that ending. No one could have survived that. Especially not without any armor in space.
And do you really believe that someone can write an awesome script and then ruin it completely in the last 5 minutes? Or is it possible that we are missing something? Especially since EA and Bioware are big on DLC's.

There is another thing to consider. If you remember in ME2 derelict Reaper level, Cerberus scientists went crazy. Even a 37 million years old derelict Reaper was able to manipulate their thoughts. God only knows what Harbinger is able to do to your head.
We can definitely expect him to be able to implement false memories into our mind. That would also go along well with what Sovereign said about Reapers being beyond our understanding.



I would like to hear your own thought about the indoctrination theory. Do you think it's plausible? Why? Why not? And if you have something to add that would be nice.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I'd like to hope the indoctrination theory is bang on. I seem to remember being told within the first 20 mins of Mass Effect 1 that the reapers come down bellowing out a signal that bores into your brain causing indoctrination.

Harbinger himself appears just as the theory about indoctrination kicks off. This is coincidently the first time Shepard comes face to face with one of the capital class reapers... Far too convienient. Why should Shepard be any less vulnerable to the effects of indoctrination than anyone else? Especially since it was Harbinger, said to be the most powerful of all the reapers and taking a personal interest in Shepard. I find the theory highly likely.

Hopefully Bioware will save the day by riding in with some free DLC which shows how the indoctrination attempt fails once Shepard chooses the destroy option. Shepard then waking up on Earth, covered in rubble as hinted in the ending vid, heads towards the conduit to kick ass the way it was always meant to be.

I wouldn't put it past Bioware to have planned something this ambitious from the start. Also backed up by the comments made on behalf of them via twitter...

In Bioware we trust


Edit: Please let this be true, if only to put Hitler out of his misery...

 

[gee666]

I wouldn't put it past Bioware to have planned something this ambitious from the start. Also backed up by the comments made on behalf of them via twitter...

In Bioware we trust


Edit: Please let this be true, if only to put Hitler out of his misery...

what twitter posts? any chance of a link ?

the one thing i can think of to support this is the
"tell me more of the shepard"
"ok ONE MORE story" line at the end, this makes me think that there must be more Shepard to come, how else can there be more story other than cannon he survives and does more
Bioware said this was the end of the Shepard story bust they said he dies in 2 so does this mean the end of his story concerning the reapers ?
Hell they put that at the end of the game foreshadowing or what?

 

[Raven's Nest]

what twitter posts? any chance of a link ?

Link to Michael Gamble's Twitter account (Producer of Mass Effect 3) https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/177942797880541185

In case it disappears, it reads "Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever."

 

[gee666]

what twitter posts? any chance of a link ?

Link to Michael Gamble's Twitter account (Producer of Mass Effect 3) https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/177942797880541185

In case it disappears, it reads "Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever."

thanks man

eddited my post above to add a point I made in another thread

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

It must be nice to be able to just turn off all critical thinking skills and just react emotionally at everything. You're like a 16 year old girl on her sweet 16 when she doesn't get the car she wanted. Can you just for a second stop whining and try to analyze the ending? Maybe you'll actually contribute something useful to one of these topics for a change.

 

[Da Orky Man]

The one thing I wonder about the indoctrination theory is how come, if you have a particularly low point score of War Assets, you only get the destroy ending? Unless the Reapers have porridge istead of brains, why would they only offer Shepard the ability to destroy them all? Makes no sense.

 

[xorinite]

I've commented on a similar thread before. So I will simply reiterate what I said there.

This is clutching at straws, it looks to me like you are so dissipointed that bioware made a bad ending that you have to find a way to delude yourself into not accepting it.

The first stage of loss is denial, then anger, then bargaining, then depression and finally acceptance. I accept bioware made a bad ending, they did it in DA2 as well.

However lets say your proposal is true, that would mean the deliberately withheld vital content from the game, the ending, so they could hold it to ransom for more cash. While EA seems capable of anything, I really doubt they would stoop that low.

Edit additional: Oh and if you wonder why various scenes don't make sense, none of the scenes made sense in the ending, not much of the over arching plot did either it was inconsistant with the story being set up through 1 and 2. Its because they changed the story from one of dark energy expansion to one of synthetics vs organics at the last moment and had to piece something together from the files they had.

Edit additional 2: I do hope they are planning to rewrite in a DLC, however they will have to also add substantial content for me to consider it, like broken steel did for fallout 3.

 

[Valanthe]

It must be nice to be able to just turn off all critical thinking skills and just react emotionally at everything. You're like a 16 year old girl on her sweet 16 when she doesn't get the car she wanted. Can you just for a second stop whining and try to analyze the ending? Maybe you'll actually contribute something useful to one of these topics for a change.

Just ignore him, it's what I do, I see a post made by "Zeel" and skip to the next post. It's a pretty sound strategy that preserves both my sanity and my IQ.

Something I would add, for discussion benefit. Something that I noted as I'm working on my second playthrough, Have you noticed that the only person who actually takes notice of the child is Shepard. Even at the LZ, nobody looks at the child, or helps him when he struggles to get into the shuttle. This offers an interesting perspective, what if he isn't real? Shepard has lost a lot, he has the blood of 130,000 Batarians on his hands, he has been pushing himself to the limit ever since Eden Prime, with barely a moment to rest, he's been subjected to an ancient beacon, one that, as Liara said, would have likely killed a lesser man. And he's even died.

My theory is that the child is a creation of Shepard's mind, whether the product of a mind strained to the limit, or an effect created by the Reapers in an effort to indoctrinate their greatest foe is as much up to personal interpretation as anything else. But the anecdotal evidence does point towards it.

 

[Keava]

Yeah, that all has been discussed on official forums since people started reaching the ending. Problem is, it doesn't really make things better. It makes things worse.
I can live with the idea BioWare made crappy ending due to investors/EA pushing for faster release, they were invested into TOR a lot over last months and with so many people leaving the studio it was obvious they would be pressed hard.
What I can't excuse is the very idea that a real ending would be a DLC, because that means they lied to customers by selling unfinished product, and if the "ending" DLC would be paid it would be the worst thing they could do at this point PR wise.
If a company wan'ts to sell single game cut into episodes then lower the initial price to begin with. Want to sell me ending for 10$ - sell me the core game for 40$. Else it's simple rip off.

 

[KingParappa]

It must be nice to be able to just turn off all critical thinking skills and just react emotionally at everything. You're like a 16 year old girl on her sweet 16 when she doesn't get the car she wanted. Can you just for a second stop whining and try to analyze the ending? Maybe you'll actually contribute something useful to one of these topics for a change.

Just ignore him, it's what I do, I see a post made by "Zeel" and skip to the next post. It's a pretty sound strategy that preserves both my sanity and my IQ.

Something I would add, for discussion benefit. Something that I noted as I'm working on my second playthrough, Have you noticed that the only person who actually takes notice of the child is Shepard. Even at the LZ, nobody looks at the child, or helps him when he struggles to get into the shuttle. This offers an interesting perspective, what if he isn't real? Shepard has lost a lot, he has the blood of 130,000 Batarians on his hands, he has been pushing himself to the limit ever since Eden Prime, with barely a moment to rest, he's been subjected to an ancient beacon, one that, as Liara said, would have likely killed a lesser man. And he's even died.

My theory is that the child is a creation of Shepard's mind, whether the product of a mind strained to the limit, or an effect created by the Reapers in an effort to indoctrinate their greatest foe is as much up to personal interpretation as anything else. But the anecdotal evidence does point towards it.

I mean with Shep having all those nightmares and various crew asking is he ok. I'm inclined to believe Shep might have succumbed to Indoctrination due to stress. Think about all the Reapers, Reapers tech and etc that Shep has run into over the series. It was bound to happen sooner or later

 

[Ninjat_126]

Indoctrination was a theory of mine for a while. In fact, I thought it would be a game mechanic in ME3. I haven't beaten it yet though, so I might be a little off.

I just hope that the ending isn't in expensive DLC. Making it free is a nice cliffhanger, making you pay for it is just dickish.

 

[Seanfall]

The one thing I wonder about the indoctrination theory is how come, if you have a particularly low point score of War Assets, you only get the destroy ending? Unless the Reapers have porridge istead of brains, why would they only offer Shepard the ability to destroy them all? Makes no sense.

Because if their not high enough you die during that ending too.

 

[RedFeather1975]

The one thing I wonder about the indoctrination theory is how come, if you have a particularly low point score of War Assets, you only get the destroy ending? Unless the Reapers have porridge istead of brains, why would they only offer Shepard the ability to destroy them all? Makes no sense.

Maybe a lack of war assets conveys the idea that Shepard had no doubt that the reapers will be destroyed.
Shepard can't be persuaded with other options if he has no doubts as to what the outcome was always going to be.

 

[Valanthe]

I mean with Shep having all those nightmares and various crew asking is he ok. I'm inclined to believe Shep might have succumbed to Indoctrination due to stress. Think about all the Reapers, Reapers tech and etc that Shep has run into over the series. It was bound to happen sooner or later

Precisely, The child never having existed would fit right along those lines. Though I just read an incredibly depressing thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354174-Batten-down-the-hatches-Hudson-speaks-on-ME3-ending] just before this that is basically Casey Hudson flipping the bird to all Bioware's fans. So we'll likely never know the truth, and simply have to live with the fact that Mass Effect will go down in history as the story that might have been epic. I'm going to finish off the playthroughs I've already started, maybe I'll get this supposed 'secret ending' that will completely change my opinion of the endings, but it's a dim and quickly fading hope.

 

[Seanfall]

It must be nice to be able to just turn off all critical thinking skills and just react emotionally at everything. You're like a 16 year old girl on her sweet 16 when she doesn't get the car she wanted. Can you just for a second stop whining and try to analyze the ending? Maybe you'll actually contribute something useful to one of these topics for a change.

Just ignore him, it's what I do, I see a post made by "Zeel" and skip to the next post. It's a pretty sound strategy that preserves both my sanity and my IQ.

Something I would add, for discussion benefit. Something that I noted as I'm working on my second playthrough, Have you noticed that the only person who actually takes notice of the child is Shepard. Even at the LZ, nobody looks at the child, or helps him when he struggles to get into the shuttle. This offers an interesting perspective, what if he isn't real? Shepard has lost a lot, he has the blood of 130,000 Batarians on his hands, he has been pushing himself to the limit ever since Eden Prime, with barely a moment to rest, he's been subjected to an ancient beacon, one that, as Liara said, would have likely killed a lesser man. And he's even died.

My theory is that the child is a creation of Shepard's mind, whether the product of a mind strained to the limit, or an effect created by the Reapers in an effort to indoctrinate their greatest foe is as much up to personal interpretation as anything else. But the anecdotal evidence does point towards it.

That might explain why he doesn't react at all like a normal kid. If I was in his place and I see an armed man I'd be running into his arms. "SAVE ME PLEASE I WANT TO LIVE!!" course I'm a chicken shit coward. Expect in video games....which is why I play them.

 

[Monkeyman O'Brien]

And do you really believe that someone can write an awesome script and then ruin it completely in the last 5 minutes?

Someone clearly has not seen BSG or Lost.
But eh, this exact same thread was done yesterday cept in more detail.

 

[Joccaren]

As much as I hope it is the indoctrination theory, I can come up with some "Bioware-Quality" answers to some of the points I believe:
-Destroy is Red, Control is Blue:
Simply put, Destroy destroys the Reapers, yes, but it also Destroys EDI and the Geth, as well as any other synthetics out there. Killing your friends and possibly allies to destroy the Reapers is what Cerberus was doing - though it was killing its people to try and control the Reapers - and thus is represented as the Red option: You destroy the Reapers and all the Biological information they hold about the earlier species, you destroy an entire species - they Geth - themselves, and you destroy your friend and, to an extent, saviour: EDI.
Control is blue as it saves everyone and everything. The Reapers still exist, but are under Shepards control. As such, they stop harvesting Organic life, start defending it, and can help rebuild the Mass Relays. In addition, the Citadel is still intact, so the seat of Galactic power still exists for people to live on, and for the Council to govern from. We can assume it is also controlled by Shepard. From there, everyone lives. The biological data of the Species from previous cycles stored within the Reapers survives, the Geth survive, EDI survives. It offers a great chance for the galaxy to rebuild, with everyone maintaining their individuality, but still surviving. In addition, it has the best watch dog fleet to stop trouble from ruining it.
-The "One more Story" line must hint towards after end DLC:
Not necessarily. After that scene, you are told that you can now continue to build on Shepard's legend by continuing to play through the game, and through DLC. What that line implies is basically that the Stargazer tells another story about one of the other missions Shepard went on, so that as you finish up anything you hadn't done before attacking Cronos Station, it is merely the Stargazer telling another story and building on the legend of 'The Shepard'.
-Can someone write a script and ruin it completely in the last 5 minutes:
Yes, if rushed. I believe there was another planned ending, something to do with Dark Matter, but for some reason that didn't go ahead and they shoved this stuff in to work with what they already had and finish the game on time. Don't know what happened there, but I will hunt down and kill whoever forced the script change.
Also note that in DA2, whilst a different group - same publisher, Leliana lived no matter whether you killed her in DA:O, and rather than admit it was a bug, they said that it was perfectly intended that way and that the player didn't necessarily know, but she survived that incident. Even though you decapitated her.
-The child seems to be merely a manifestation of Shepard's fears or W/E, and thus that whole last section is likely in his head:
Whilst the child may be purely in his head (I fully agree with this), the child being in the final section is likely either his perception of the Catalyst, or how the Catalyst chooses to present itself to him.
-The Citadel exploded and Crashed to Earth or W/E, Shepard couldn't have survived that:
An unknown device fired a beam of energy that magically disintegrated all Reapers/Synthesised all Organics with Synthetics (Control is more understandable, but why the Relays blow up in it is beyond me) - Your argument is invalid.

 

[ScaryAlmond]

I am hoping for the indoctrination theory is true.
When I was actually playing the game I was thinking that the control choice was actually the losing one where you are absorbed and the reapers kick the shit out of everyone.
would rather him still be on the ground in london then have this ending but if bioware isn't kidding that this is the end and everyone thinks they are smart than we have alot of problems.