Meat

[Ryleh]

Unless you lived on a farm and actually have done some WORK or have some KNOWLEDGE of a farm, don't speak about shit like that.

I did grow up on a farm. And that farm was responsible for polluting waterways, destroying vast amounts of vegetation to supply cattle with grains instead of grass, and don't even get me started on animal cruelty issues.

I am genuinely glad that your farm is setting an awesome example and doing the right thing. But the reality in my country is that the meat and dairy industry are doing a lot more harm than good now that farms are moving away from smaller family businesses, and in to large commercial operations with thousands of cattle.

 

[Arakasi]

black people =/= animals

animals = humans

Hang on, if animals = humans, and black people =/= animals, then black people aren't human? What? I'll assume I'm misinterpreting your meaning here.

Also, just wondering, what objective fact about animals makes it wrong to harm them? Is it that they feel pain? What about if something did feel pain but couldn't show it? As far as I know no one feels empathetic towards a fish, because they aren't as anthropomorphic. In any case why should the triggering of an emotional response be a solid basis for action as opposed to practicality?

You're kind of over-mathematicizing what I meant. I didn't mean for something like (white person)x - (black person)y = animal or anything crazy like that to be distilled out of it. I just wanted a simple way to say "when comparing factory farms to slave plantations, we do not mean to trivialize the suffering of slaves. We mean to give the suffering of animals the severity it deserves."

Ah, I thought I was misunderstanding something there.

As for what objective fact makes their suffering meaningful? It is very silly to speak in certainties and absolutes.

Well it isn't talking about a certainty or an absolute, it's just asking for a reason based on reality for it to be rational to believe that harming animals is wrong. If you're trying to figure out the correct way to act it's hardly wrong to ask for that.

Why is it wrong to harm humans? Apply that same reason to animals and that would be my answer.

Well it isn't, inherently. I'd say the only reason why it'd be wrong to harm humans comes down to the social contract. We recognise that man is a deadly animal, so we form organisations to keep each other safe from ourselves. That can hardly be applied to animals.

As for fish, I do empathize with them. And I don't need anthropomorphism or childish comparisons to Finding Nemo to do it. They have brains, goldfish can even be trained to navigate mazes. However, fish get to live natural lives before we eat them. So I would sooner eat a fish than a chicken.

I'd have to ask them, why does 'having a brain' make something better than something else? Computers could be seen as having brains, though made of a different material I'd hardly consider that a significant feature.

Why should an emotional response be the motivating force behind our actions as opposed to practicality? We are not robots or hysterical cartoon characters.

Well in a very large sense we are biological machines. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it wouldn't be irrational to not eat meat if it makes you feel more bad than the pleasure it gives you by eating it, I'm saying that isn't a good reason for everyone else (or anyone else) to stop eating meat.

Our actions and emotions have reason and humanity behind them.

Our emotions were crafted by evolution to guide us towards the most beneficial action, that's about the extent of the reason behind emotions. Our actions are undoubtedly influenced by our beliefs and reasoning related to those beliefs, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'humanity'.

Does your practical decision involve life or death?

Why is life or death special? Each of those are one of the more normal, common and ordinary things on this planet.

If not, then you could choose whatever path you want. That is the only thing that makes you better than a machine or an animal.

Again, humans are biological machines. Animals are marginally less complicated (cognitively) biological machines. At what point is a life considered a life? It's ambiguous for a reason.

 

[Ninmecu]

As for fish, I do empathize with them. And I don't need anthropomorphism or childish comparisons to Finding Nemo to do it. They have brains, goldfish can even be trained to navigate mazes. However, fish get to live natural lives before we eat them. So I would sooner eat a fish than a chicken.

I have to tackle this one. It really depends on the fish, if it's free-range then yes, you're right, it lived a normal life and died a somewhat normal way. If it's farmed, then you're wrong, for the same reasons chickens suck on most(not all) farms. If farmers adopted the "clean" movement and ditched that vitriolic crap they call "corn" in the place of grass, then we'd all be happier/healthier/less morally hating towards eating meat because the animal would "live" as it were. I know I've mentioned it a few times, but seriously, don't believe the lie that Cows being 100% Corn Fed is a good thing. It's like humans eating the shit, it's very very VERY bad. Both for the cow and for us, it's just really REALLY cheap to produce in mass market and Governments pay out a lot in bonuses for growing large amounts of it. So it's greatly mass produced and used as a product to fluff up most consumer items, which is bad.

I realize this has little to do with meat. So, keeping with the topic. What do you "Non Canadians" consider "Canadian Bacon" to be?

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

OK.

I do not eat meat. I have been vegan for nearly 10 years now, and was vegetarian for about 12 years before that. I have, however, tried meat. While I was a kid, I tried bits now and again to see what it was or what I was "missing"

I do not eat meat because I love animals (waits for animal sex joke response) they are incredible, and quite frankly, to me, a piece of meat looks exactly like what it is, a piece of carcass. I imagine my feelings towards meat would be what most of your feelings would be if someone presented you with a human steak, told you it was human, and that the specific human had no choice if he wanted to be eaten, suffered greatly for most of his life and was killed in a barbaric way.

To me, I cannot understand how anyone can eat meat. I've tried to understand it, but can never get my head around it. The only way I can comprehend it is if someone's response is both of these, A) I do not give a shit towards the feelings of animals or care about animals in any way and B) I enjoy the taste. If your response is both of them, OK, now I understand you. I'm not saying we can be best friends, but your intentions are clear and honest.

I cannot, however, comprehend how someone who owns a pet can eat meat. I just can't understand it... I can't understand how you can give love to something (e.g. cat/dog) while you happily tuck in to some carcass of cow, unless your head is that desensitised towards what you're actually eating.

This go for vegetarians too. I don't really understand how you can justify your actions. I know quite a lot of veges and their usual response is along the lines of "I'm doing my bit". And, don't get me wrong, that bit your doing is cool, but how you can justify it being OK to not eat one animal, but quite happily enjoy the torture of another is beyond me.

P.S meat smells disgusting. (I know for a fact you're probably reading this right now thinking "No way! I loves the smell of my bacon!) but that smell is a lie. It's just a smell you've become so used to smelling. Go without your beloved bacon for a few years and you'll realise exactly what it smells like.. burning flesh and urine.

P.S KFC smells exactly like bad B.O



Captcha: Rice and beans. Pretty boring, but I'll take it over meat. Thanks, Captcha!

 

[MHR]

Do you eat meat?

no

If no, why?

I find the idea of having an animal raised its whole life in hellish conditions and killed young so I can have the chicken fingers instead of the salad to be absurd.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?

yes

If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?

Cheese and beans. I have cheese on every food item cheese is fit to grace, and I consume a lot of hummus cuz it's tasty. Lately I've been having pregnant-woman-like cravings for mushrooms that I have on veggies bean burgers.... gawd I want me one of those right now.

This go for vegetarians too. I don't really understand how you can justify your actions. I know quite a lot of veges and their usual response is along the lines of "I'm doing my bit". And, don't get me wrong, that bit your doing is cool, but how you can justify it being OK to not eat one animal, but quite happily enjoy the torture of another is beyond me.

I like to think of myself as a good person but not a saint. I deffer some of the responsibility of the good treatment of animals to the owners. I don't feel that all the responsibility has to be placed on me when cruelty-free dairy products can be made but a cruelty-free meat is currently impossible (unless we're talking a road-kill sort of situation.)

 

[FireAza]

Do you eat meat?
If yes, why?
If no, why?
Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?

Yep.

Absolutely, except where the texture of the meat is part of the experience (i.e steak) since last I heard, synthetic meat was squishy since it was never actually used. It would be perfect for dips though, just imagine it! Crab dip with real crab in it!

I like seafood the best, specifically prawns, crabs and squid. I also love chicken and lamb. Beef is good too, but kinda plain-Jane since beef is used in a lot of things.

 

[sweetylnumb]

Bacon bacon bacon bacon and just so the mods dont ban me for low content (love you guys ) I really do like me some bacon.

I do think the whole institution of farming is a little gross though. i'd feel alot better about it if i hunted it myself or something. But then, i'd probably be to lazy. I have no moral high ground here. I just like meat.

 

[Idlemessiah]

Do you eat meat?
Yessiree

If yes, why?
Because it's normal. I grew up eating meat and I expect I'll carry on eating meat. I tried being vegetarian for a while but after a year I'd eaten pretty much every veggie meal you can make from whats available in a supermarket. It got boring.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
Yes, depending on the resources. I'm fine with a factory lab making my meat but I want to know where the base material is coming from.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
I'll eat pretty much any animal but you gotta love pig. Bacon, gammon, ham, chops, loins and ribs. Pulled pork sandwich with BBQ SAWCE!

If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?
I'm quite happy eating vegetable curries and bakes. Cheese based meals are always nice. And falafels. OMG falafels *drool.

 

[Not Matt]

Yes. Because it is delicious. There really isn't much more than that. I do it to enjoy it, the nourishment is just and added bonus. And I eat all meat except synthetic. Because to me, that's just weird. I understand vegetarians can eat it but I think that's cheating

 

[Joccaren]

Do you eat meat?

Yes, in large amounts if possible.

If yes, why?

'cause it tastes good. Best tasting food on this planet, only thing that beats my love of sweet food.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?

Provided it was as high-quality as normal meat, tasted the same, with the same texture, same juiciness and same nutritional value as normal meat, yes. I.E: So long as it was exactly the same, as normal meat, with the only difference in quality being able to be explained by difference in animal quality were it normal meat, then sure.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)

Lamb. Slow cooked on a barbeque. Conveniently what I had 2 nights ago for dinner. I cooked that well. It was delicious.

 

[Senare]

Do you eat meat?
Yes and no. I try to avoid it but I do not pass up when someone offers me meat in a meal.

If yes, why?
Because it mostly tastes well, it is somewhat nutritious and a life has already been irrevocably lost to bring it there.

If no, why?
1. Because meat production is unnecessary immoral and extremely wasteful energy-wise.
2. Because vegetarian/vegan foods are generally superior in nutritional value, cost (both energy and economically) and better align with my morals.
3. Because I feel that meat is not valued by the general public as highly as I think it should be.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
Yes. Theoretically it should be safe and only superficially different (i.e. it was grown in a lab) from conventional meat. While we are at it we should develop cheaper hydroponics and solar power.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
Different meats lend themselves to different dishes. E.g. ground meat should be exclusively made of cow meat in my book and pork is nice for pork chops and bacon.

If you don't eat meat, what do you prefer?
As a different protein source: Soy granulates, legumes, beans.
Otherwise there are more things on the plate than meat even for those who eat meat.

 

[captainballsack]

(and I am such a picky eater that I couldn't lose any more items for eating or I may starve).

Boy do I know those feels. I'm the same, I'm reaaally selective though, to the point that I've actually developed a phobia of foods I haven't tried before that's super hard to kick (I'm trying my best to get past it though).

If I wasn't in the shitty food anxiety state I'm in now (and have been all my life), I would probably consider going vegetarian for ethical reasons. I try not think about it though because the guilt will eat at me (heh) and there wouldn't be anything I could instantly do to stop it. So, slowly but steadily for me. I'll face this ethical decision when I actually have the freedom to do so.

I tend to believe in the collaboration of humans and animals a lot though. I feel like our relationship with dogs and horses and the like is something I consider a sort of natural leadership role of the animal kingdom. I think if we spent more time learning to live peacefully with animals, we would reap more benefits. I just need to learn to stop being anxious about not eating them first. :/

 

[jackpipsam]

Do you eat meat?
Yes.

If yes, why?
Because it tastes good and I think it's part of the normal healthy diet for human beings.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
I might give a shot, but really I don't go for that kind of thing.
Give me the real deal any day.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
I love Chicken, but I will eat almost any meat.

 

[Timzilla]

I don't eat meat. It's horrible for the environment

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly do you mean by "Bad" for the environment? Do you mean just the animals, or do you mean the trees n' shit (Think that's the scientific definition)? Because one could argue that eating animals helps the environment (i.e. Trees n' shit) in some ways.

 

[MHR]

I don't eat meat. It's horrible for the environment

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly do you mean by "Bad" for the environment? Do you mean just the animals, or do you mean the trees n' shit (Think that's the scientific definition)? Because one could argue that eating animals helps the environment (i.e. Trees n' shit) in some ways.

Eating the animals doesn't help when you're the one breeding more and more of them.

Also, raising animals consumes a lot of resources, feed, water, land, and they create toxic runoff. Vegetables on the other hand consume only a fraction of those resources.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Do you eat meat?
Yes

If yes, why?
I like the taste of it.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
Yes.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)
I don't really have one just as long it taste good.

 

[Ninmecu]

I don't eat meat. It's horrible for the environment

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly do you mean by "Bad" for the environment? Do you mean just the animals, or do you mean the trees n' shit (Think that's the scientific definition)? Because one could argue that eating animals helps the environment (i.e. Trees n' shit) in some ways.

Eating the animals doesn't help when you're the one breeding more and more of them.

Also, raising animals consumes a lot of resources, feed, water, land, and they create toxic runoff. Vegetables on the other hand consume only a fraction of those resources.

Here's the Caveat with the whole Vegetables only use a fraction of the resources, Veggies need Shit to grow. Shit, sadly, doesn't grow on tree's. Like it or not, the animals we grow and kill and feed, allow the cycle to continue. I will give you the whole "Animal raising uses more resources" but as I've stated several times, if we as a collective society banded together to change a few small issues, we'd be past this and the world would be bettered from an individual health standpoint and from an environmental.

 

[Suave Charlie]

Finally found a good butcher that does 12 good sized chicken breast fillets for £10, and on market day does a ridiculous offer also for a tenner, has like 8 chicken breast, gammon, 3 steaks, sausages, ribs and joints. Bloody amazing.
And butchers are less likely to inject water into their meat.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Do I eat meat...YES! I eat and greatly enjoy Meat. I enjoy the textures and, tastes of all variety of meats from the humble hamburger or, deli meat sandwich to the richness of a medium-rare porterhouse. Then there is the almighty pleasure of crab, shrimp, scallops, eel and, lobster tails.

When it comes to synthetic meat, I can't wait to try some! The thought of cultured beef or, lab-grown foods means (potentially) better quality foods for significantly cheaper prices. If not that, then there's always the chance that these lab-grown super foods will horribly mutate me.

When it comes to a preference of meat, bacon. Followed by Lobster Tails, Shrimp, pork, beef...it all depends on how it's prepared and what it's served with/how it's served.

 

[Arakasi]

Why is it wrong to harm humans? Apply that same reason to animals and that would be my answer.

Well it isn't, inherently. I'd say the only reason why it'd be wrong to harm humans comes down to the social contract. We recognise that man is a deadly animal, so we form organisations to keep each other safe from ourselves. That can hardly be applied to animals.

In this statement and each of the statements below you are absolutely correct. However, you also subscribe to the most depressingly pessimistic brand of existential nihilism there is. Sure, sympathy, compassion and friendship are at their core merely tools for survival as a pack species. However, I think we must give ourselves a little more credit than that. I believe that if we continue to foster empathy for empathy's sake, then we can rise above being the mere deadly animal you're talking about. My whole entire reasoning comes down to empathy though, so if you're the type who would torture their own grandmother for fun and profit if not for the social contract, then there is of course no way I could make you care about a miserable factory farm hen.

Well most of the time it is really not practical to torture or harm others, especially since you do have empathy which, even were it pleasurable to do so, would make it proportionally displeasurable. With animals it's an entirely different case. Also, empathy for empathy's sake I think will lead to very strange outcomes, evolutionarily speaking. Hell, it already has. Birds limp around as if they have broken legs to manipulate free food out of us foolish organisms who can't tell the difference. The more they pretend to be in pain the more we'll want to help, and what's the best way for evolution to make us think an animal is in pain? Actually cause them pain in our presence. This is all of course, just wild speculation, but I think the outcomes of sympathy will end up far worse than any consequence of not having it now.

As for fish, I do empathize with them. And I don't need anthropomorphism or childish comparisons to Finding Nemo to do it. They have brains, goldfish can even be trained to navigate mazes. However, fish get to live natural lives before we eat them. So I would sooner eat a fish than a chicken.

I'd have to ask then, why does 'having a brain' make something better than something else? Computers could be seen as having brains, though made of a different material I'd hardly consider that a significant feature.

Iiiiiii'm not too sure about computers having sorta-brains. We used to think a clockwork mechanism was similar to the brain, but now we know there are quite a few more steps in between.

Many, many, many more steps. But complexity has never been a good argument for their being something more.

But why is something with a brain better than something else? Well, the idea is that it elevates you above a 'thing' to a 'being'. Cogito ergo sum and all that jazz.

If a brain is just a machine, and it is, doesn't that mean that is a foolish step to make? Unless you wish to make the distinction for convenience's sake (when referring to other beings and so on) but in that case it still wouldn't be a useful term in an ethical or moral argument.

Why should an emotional response be the motivating force behind our actions as opposed to practicality? We are not robots or hysterical cartoon characters.

Well in a very large sense we are biological machines. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it wouldn't be irrational to not eat meat if it makes you feel more bad than the pleasure it gives you by eating it, I'm saying that isn't a good reason for everyone else (or anyone else) to stop eating meat.

Our actions and emotions have reason and humanity behind them.

Our emotions were crafted by evolution to guide us towards the most beneficial action, that's about the extent of the reason behind emotions. Our actions are undoubtedly influenced by our beliefs and reasoning related to those beliefs, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'humanity'.

By humanity, I mean precisely our ability to act beyond the rational.

Computer often act incredibly rationally, more so than we do. When the chess champion of the world went up against the world's best chess-playing supercomputer he accused it of cheating because its moves were too ingenious. I repeat, a man accused a computer of being controlled by a man.

We often do things that may not feel good or benefit us, but serve concepts like ethics, beauty, meaningfulness, honor, and so forth. Do you think those are evolutionary flukes? Because that would be the pessimism I mentioned earlier!

They may seem in the moment evolutionary oversights, but they are just part of the mechanism to get along in society. Though there may be a few that haven't caught up with modern society, I'm not sure how you'd identify them other than them being simply maladaptive.