Men and homophobia

DanielBrown

Dangerzone!
Dec 3, 2010
3,838
0
0
If a man was checking me out I'd probably assume he's staring at me, picking a fight.
I'm not homophobic however, but I gotta say... those sissy gay guys wakes up an urge to kill in me.

 

MPerce

New member
May 29, 2011
434
0
0
That....is quite possibly a factor in homophobia. It's not the end-all answer, but I am quite sure that this explains some of the homophobia in people I know.
 

Hagi

New member
Apr 10, 2011
2,741
0
0
I'm not really buying that theory.

I'm also seriously doubting your claim of men being more homophobic than women as it seems purely based on your own experiences. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.

Besides, in current day and age men being treated as sexual objects is slowly getting more common. I'll easily admit that it's probably nowhere near as much as happens to women, but it definitely does happen.

Erotic literature which treats men as primarily sexual objects is at an all-time high.
Movies aimed squarely at women featuring physically 'ideal' men without too much clothing are being seen more and more.
Advertising, aimed at both men and women, featuring these 'ideal' men isn't rare at all either.

As I said, it's likely nowhere near the quantity in which it happens to women. I doubt there's many men who get felt up by women in a busy metro. But the notion that women (and other men) see men as sexual objects isn't nearly as alien as you make it out to be.

ps. 'ideal' does not refer to what you personally find ideal, rather to the body type commonly seen in media that we're apparently meant to see as ideal, and likely a majority does see as such. I personally have tastes quire different from what media advertises as the 'ideal' woman, but I can't deny that there's such a thing being advertised. Be it for men or women.
 

Crazycat690

New member
Aug 31, 2009
677
0
0
Well, while it's not true for myself, I suppose there's truth in it because most of my male friends always gets really uncomfortable when there's anything related to homosexuality going on. Although I don't think the reasons are correct really, I mean guys easily get uncomfortable with homosexuality because of several reasons... No I won't talk about all there can be but if we now say that it's this way compared to women, that women would feel more comfortable around lesbian women, isn't it so that women in general have more gay tendencies than men? In that being more comfortable with it. I mean we've all heard of girls having that "gay experience", that's kind of a stereotype because there's some truth in it, it's not a "common" thing for guys to have a gay experience sometime in their lives.

Now FYI I'm a bisexual male, more straight than gay, but I still reckon I feel as much uncomfortable when girls hit on my as if a guy would hit on me. I'm gonna say it's just what you're used to, and our culture says "men hits on girls", anything deviant from that will likely make us uncomfortable. If women are more "used to" being hit on and men are less then no wonder. And I just noticed I'm about to contradict myself greatly, my point is that there's more to it, I don't think that guys are specifically more threatened by gay men just because they're gay men. If a straight guy has never been hit on before of course he will feel kinda threatened the first time a girl goes up and hits on him.
 

BeeGeenie

New member
May 30, 2012
726
0
0
I also think homophobia has more to do with the "homosexual" culture than it has to do with homosexual activity.
I have lesbian friends who will back me up on this.

Basically, I feel that two men can do whatever they want to do in the privacy of their own home.
However, This:

Has nothing to do with being attracted to men, and everything to do with being an attention whore.
You don't have to be wearing pink hot pants to have a nice parade or be proud of your vast accomplishment of... having sex.
 

Condiments

New member
Jul 8, 2010
221
0
0
Here goes my theory:

Traditionally gender roles in general terms are perceived as thus-

Females have passive value. Society values women based on innate factors to their existence such as their beauty(curves, and elegance), reproductive function(motherhood), and submissiveness. Women are valued more as an ideal to be upheld and to be protected due to their innate value. They are not viewed as agents of change, or moral actors, and hold less responsibility for their actions. As much progress as we've made in society women generally are still not valued on the basis of their accomplishments, as action diminishes their innate value or their 'femininity'.

Males are traditionally viewed as moral actors, and agents of change. Their role or function is often defined on their ability to 'do', or their role within the society. This is why a man's inner world or emotions are often shunned from expression within society, as men are valued on their ability to function. Women and children are evacuated from dangerous areas due to their innate value, whereas men are assumed capable and responsible for themselves.

How this relates to the whole homophobia aspect, or man's irrational hatred of homosexuality(men expressing innate value through emotionality) is because of the belief that men have no innate value. Men are the sum of their actions and accomplishments, and are more expendable by the nature of their reproduction. A man expressing feminine traits is viewed as wrong because they are not useful to society's function. Men express hatred towards feminine men because of their inherent 'worthlessness' as men, and inability to be men.

I'm sure this isn't the only factor that drives this feeling either. I agree with others that believe that some men are ashamed of their own homosexual desires, and their hatred is a release of that expression. They feel threatened they will become worthless in society's eyes by the very nature of their sexuality.
 

BathorysGraveland

New member
Dec 7, 2011
1,000
0
0
I would say it has some merit. I'm not homosexual myself, but I am attracted to pre-op transsexual women and I can definitely imagine myself feeling immensely uncomfortable and even embarrassed if someone openly questioned that to me.

I can understand why someone would then speak negatively of what they are really attracted to as a cop-out, or even full-blown denial.
 

Palademon

New member
Mar 20, 2010
4,167
0
0
I think it's more to do with comformity and masculinity.
Immature people hate ANYTHING different. Just because we give a label to it, doesn't mean it's caused by something else.
 

Eynimeb

New member
Jun 15, 2012
23
0
0
I have so many theories, on so many aspects of it, but so few facts to base them on. I'll limit myself to one pet theory.

I think there's one aspect that could be at the root of many iterations of bigotry. Being agressive and violent are considered manly traits. A man is considered manly if he attacks someone, regardless of whether he's considered good or bad. Gangs of young men out on the prowl looking for someone to beat up are looking to prop themselves up as manly men.

In my experience, men who are agressive and violent *are* considered more attractive, with little regard for morality. Until that changes, men will continue to *be* more agressive and violent. If gays stop being convenient targets, another group will be forced to take its place.

I highly doubt fear of being raped has much to do with it. I was once sexually assaulted by a guy as a kid, and it hasn't made me fear gays. (It wasn't as brutal as many other people's experiences, as I got away fairly quickly.) I've been hit on by gay guys, and it wasn't more than awkward.
 

Faraja

New member
Apr 30, 2012
89
0
0
The theory is a bunch of bull. The only people who are going to be intimidated by it are homophobic, secretly gay, or just aren't used to getting hit on at all. Nothing can be done about the first, the second just needs to make up their mind, and the third will adjust.

In the end, the power rest with the person being hit on, not the aggressor.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
11,279
7,069
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
JanatUrlich said:
She believes that a lot of men feel threatened by homosexual men as they actually have the physical power to harass them as women are harassed on a daily basis.

How do you feel about this theory?
I think it might have some merit, especially considering the men I've met who seem to really dislike homosexuals seem to be afraid that gay men are planning to rape them as soon as their back is turned. Because apparently, since men think about sex all the time and gay men perfer other men, logically Gay men are rapists waiting for the chance. Which seems to imply that all men are rapists waiting for the chance. I'm not sure.

I really don't understand the mindset to be honest, but I don't understand racism either.
 

MrHide-Patten

New member
Jun 10, 2009
1,309
0
0
That... makes a lot of sense. Seeing as how I look like Shrek's ass, Im quite confident that Im not sexually appealing to anyone, ergo not a homophobe. My dad thinks he's gods gift to mankind, afraid of gays.
 

Aprilgold

New member
Apr 1, 2011
1,995
0
0
It has more to do with cultural or social hardwiring then just being hit on. Essentially every man is taught to try and become a Hercules or a Ghile in simple terms. Being gay is often associated with being feminine. Apparently people don't like other men not conforming to the social agenda [for males] of masculinity is bad, thus resulting into a type of hatred.

However, this isn't without going into religious reasons and pure stupidity.
 

Kayevcee

New member
Mar 5, 2008
391
0
0
Yeah, this sounds plausible. While there are other facets in the horrible, horrible crystal that is homophobia, this is probably a more significant factor than a lot of haters would be willing to admit.

-Nick
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
JanatUrlich said:
Be it getting whistled at in the street, or having a stranger grope you on a train. As a woman of only 20 years old I can already say that incidents such as these occur regularly. Woman are constantly pestered about their sexuality and are used to people picking up on it.
I don't think those things occue "that" regualry

excpet just this morning I had a bizare incident on the bus

[spoiler/]on our buses on the front section there's two "priority" rows of seats facing each other...like you get on a train,

and so I'm sitting on one with people next to me eather side...and people sitting oposite me...one of them being a highschool kid

so I'm just there minding my own buisness as usual....and I wear a skirt to work, even though its cold I dont like stockings...and I admit that the things rides up little more than I notice..but all seems fine to me

so as I said I'm there minding my own buisness when suddenly the lady next to me says "hey! enough!..stop it!" to the school kid,

hes like "whaaa?" as is everyone else..not that I really care none of my buissness

she then says "your looking up her skirt!"

loud enough for everyone in the general vicinity to hear......I died a bit inside

so yeah...I just kind of adjusted my skirt and continue doing nothing[/spoiler]


itd an interesting theory....not sure hwo true it is....though it kind of makes me laugh were it true like "oh yeah!...see how YOU like it!"
 

TallanKhan

New member
Aug 13, 2009
790
0
0
JanatUrlich said:
Men, however, are not. Moran suggests that this is where the fear of gay men comes from. Men are not used to being sexually targeted as women are. She believes that a lot of men feel threatened by homosexual men as they actually have the physical power to harass them as women are harassed on a daily basis.

I have asked a few of my male friends about this and they say that there could be some truth in the matter. None of my male friends are particularly homophobic, but they admitted that they feel uncomfortable knowing that gay men could hold power over them, whereas most heterosexual females physically could not.
I would agree that in alot of cases homophobia in men does stem from intimidation but I'm not certain that the root cause identified is correct. I would argue that in many cases heterosexual men do not see homosexual men as a physical threat but as a threat to their dominance, particularly in all-male social situations.

I have noted that it is most often (not always, especially with older generations) your archetype "Alpha Males" (and those who consider themselves Alpha Males) who will demonstrate the most aggressive homophobia. This would not be entirely consistant with the idea that the physical threat posed is the the root of this fear. "Alpha Males" (can you tell i hate the term?) are typically those percieved as physically stronger, among other attributes.

But a homosexual man does pose a potential threat of a different nature. As much as i hate to admit it, men tend to be, more primal -for want of a better term- and never more so than when around other men. Men are hierarchical, particularly in groups, although this is still expressed between a pair of male friends, just more subtley. Now I feel i should say im not ragging on my sex here, I am certainly not leveling accusations of men being less evolved than women or anything else, just that our social interactions retain a more animalistic element.

Now this hierarchy expresses itself differently depending on the social context but inevitably there is always an element of jostling for dominance within a group of men. Men will look for ways to distinguish themselves as superior to their fellows, be it through strength, inteligence or percieved success.

Crude as it is a major factor in this hierarchy is a man's percieved sexual prowess (whatever the reality) and among the more dominant members of a social circle (back to the Alpha Males) will almost always be those percieved as the most successful with the opposite sex. Now this is where a homosexual man threatens an Alpha Male. A homosexual man is not competing for the affections of the opposite sex so being successful gives the Alpha Male no victory and establishes no dominance over the homosexual man. This A) Disrupts the hierarchy and B) Leads the Alpha Male to seek an alternative way of asserting dominance over the individual - which can lead to victimisation in the form of homophobia.

On a last note at the end of my essay^ ;) - I have spoken in very general terms and in many cases the thought processes I'm talking about are instinctive and sub-conscious. I am not demonizing men or suggesting that male friendships cannot be mutually supportive. Rather i am suggesting that this is a small element of our social phycology that can skew our thinking in minor ways.
 

guidance

New member
Dec 9, 2010
192
0
0
I think a major part is just general uncomfortableness. I am not against homosexuality in no way shape or form, but when I met a gay kid in my highschool I really didn't know how to react near him. I didn't know what could be considered rude, and I didn't want him to do gay things to me ( I admit I was stupid and acting purely on stereotypes). Eventually it just hit me that he is a normal person just doing his thing and I got used to it. The thought of 2 guys doing that stuff, weirds me out because I'm a straight guy, it's just not my thing, but I got used to it without lashing out. I think this is where most of the problems come from, they just can't get over their uncomfortableness.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
15,489
0
0
JanatUrlich said:
How do you feel about this theory?
Well, that all depends. Does the book cover the response "I just don't swing that way"?