Men: Now a Minority in PC Gaming.

[Vigormortis]

Because it is not the core of the industry . It is like the outskirts of the town . It lacks the identity that the center of the town has . It does not bear the cultural identity of the core of the industry . The people who play them , do not contribute to the industry . They are not a valuable part of the gaming community which helps to mold the coming titles .

Given that the social/mobile gaming portion of the gaming market is, itself, a multi-billion dollar enterprise, I'm not sure how you can make that claim.

Companies go where the money is. Even companies like EA and Activision have created whole sub-divisions whose sole intent are to make and market social and mobile games.

Social and mobile gaming is a massive, and still growing, portion of the video gaming industry. To so blithely discount it is a bit short-sighted.

In fact:

While hardcore gamers are in the minority of gamers they provide an invaluable resource to developers on both the hardware and software end. Without the hardcore gamers passion and dedication to the art, we would not have the quality games that are available today.You are calling a child an artist just because he drew a stick figure with a crayon .

It seems to me that you are discounting it simply because you don't like the games it produces. You're even discounting the influence mobile and social gamers have on developers and the gaming market as a whole.

You may think I'm making an unfair comparison, but from where I'm sitting, I only see you doing so.

snip

There's nothing inherently wrong with a good rant from time to time, and I don't necessarily disagree on all of your points, but much of it doesn't have to do with my original point.

However, on the parts that do, I'll say this:
It feels, as I pointed out with the poster above, that this tendency to discount social and mobile games (and their subsequent players) as "not real games/gamers" stems less from a question of their cultural and market legitimacy and more from a sense of "I don't like those games, so they're not real games."

To me, if it's a video game, and someone plays it with some level of regularity; or more specifically someone who makes a point of finding time in their day to play it; then I consider that person a gamer.

A person can be a casual car lover without being a die-hard gear-head. A person can love, say, all things Prius and other eco-friendly vehicles, but gives nary a thought on what makes a Porsche so appealing. That person is still a car lover, even if the target of their affection isn't what a gear-head might like. The same can be said of someone who plays social or mobile video games. They may not necessarily keep up-to-date on all of the comings and goings of the industry as a whole, but that doesn't discount their involvement and contribution to the portion of the market they are a part of.

You could argue that they're not game hobbyists, but they're still gamers.

I think what it boils down to is a difference in definition.

To me a gamer is anyone who plays video games, whereas people like you (I assume) and I are what I'd call video gaming hobbyists. Both groups are gamers. One plays casually, the other as a hobby.

For some, a gamer is someone only from the latter group.

 

[Artaneius]

This entire survey is idiotic. Most of those who play mobile gamers or FB games wouldn't even label themselves as gamers. They really need to make a survey based on actual gaming communities that represent the actual cultural society of gaming.

Make a survey that contains how much of each gender play MMO's, FPS, RTS, JRPGs, WRPGS, Fighting, Racing, Action/Adventure, MOBAS, and Sports. All these genres are represented by the actual gaming communities and culture. I guarantee you that the numbers will look much different if we don't include basic flash games that are mostly just farm sims or bejeweled rip offs that gaming communities sees as cancer.

If we include all genres and sub-genres from any entertainment field, the slight majority would of course be woman. Studies have constantly proven that in terms of "averages" woman spend more time on entertainment then men do in general. That would include gaming. However; the culture that formed around gaming is a much different story and thus it's unfair to say that those men/woman that only play mobile games represent part of the gaming community at all.

 

[deth2munkies]

However, on the parts that do, I'll say this:
It feels, as I pointed out with the poster above, that this tendency to discount social and mobile games (and their subsequent players) as "not real games/gamers" stems less from a question of their cultural and market legitimacy and more from a sense of "I don't like those games, so they're not real games."

To me, if it's a video game, and someone plays it with some level of regularity; or more specifically someone who makes a point of finding time in their day to play it; then I consider that person a gamer.

A person can be a casual car lover without being a die-hard gear-head. A person can love, say, all things Prius and other eco-friendly vehicles, but gives nary a thought on what makes a Porsche so appealing. That person is still a car lover, even if the target of their affection isn't what a gear-head might like. The same can be said of someone who plays social or mobile video games. They may not necessarily keep up-to-date on all of the comings and goings of the industry as a whole, but that doesn't discount their involvement and contribution to the portion of the market they are a part of.

You could argue that they're not game hobbyists, but they're still gamers.

I think what it boils down to is a difference in definition.

To me a gamer is anyone who plays video games, whereas people like you (I assume) and I are what I'd call video gaming hobbyists. Both groups are gamers. One plays casually, the other as a hobby.

For some, a gamer is someone only from the latter group.

No, they're not both "gamers" because your version of "gamers" wouldn't self-identify as such while "video game hobbyists" would. Even if you want to distort the term gamer to encompass "everyone that has ever played a video game" then it has no descriptive value and the point of this survey would be to say that more than half of PC "video game hobbyists" are women.

To analogize: people that watch football every once in a while and generally keep up with scores in the newspaper might be "sports fans", but true "sports nuts" are the ones in the statistics and fantasy leagues who keep up with every pick of the draft, have complicated predictive models, and talk about every facet of the game. Gamers are the "sports nuts" of games, just because we don't have a great term apart from "casual gamer" to describe sports fans doesn't mean that everyone who follows football is a sports nut.

 

[Callate]

That number spikes up to 53.6% for RPGs and 57.8% for Mobile games.

That seems like an unfortunate way to lay down the numbers. It implies people who play "mobile games" are being tallied as "PC gamers".

I think I'd like more information, anyway. Is anyone who's ever been suckered into Farmville or mis-clicked someone's invite to one of Facebook's legion of time-suckers considered a gamer for this purpose? Anyone who's ever played solitaire? How did they identify people to be considered for the purpose of the survey?

...The original Joystiq report (dig dig dig) says "50.2 percent of the PC market (including social games)". I have to wonder how those numbers change when anything that can be played for free, or is solely ad-supported, is removed from consideration.

I will say that my skepticism is not geared towards undermining the female presence in games; I think there should be a greater presence there. But I feel a slight unease at such data being pitched towards pursuing an audience whose market share is exaggerated, and a greater one at furthering the prominence of games designed from the outset to drain micropayments from their playerbase.

 

[shrekfan246]

ITT: Lots of bad math and people who will say "sample size too small" no matter how big the sample size is. After all, if there's anything to be learned from Young Earth Creationists, its that bad science will be accepted as long as you're telling people what they want to hear.

I'd say it's more gatekeepers who have a very specific definition for what makes someone a "gamer" and get mad when other people don't use the same arbitrary criteria.

 

[Phasmal]

Took less than a page to get to `Bla bla women are casuals`. Sighhhhhhhhh.

Spoiler: How irritatingly predictable.

Suffice it to say her and I really do like each other a lot because spending 3 years with someone literally a two feet behind you at all times is a huge test of the potential viability of a relationship..but the whole "dating a gamer/having a gamer girlfriend"...yeah, not the golden apple everyone thinks it is.

Really? How odd, this hasn't been my experience at all. Being with another gamer has always been pretty freaking sweet for me and Boyfriend. We game side-by-side and I don't think I've had any problems with immersion, or that he has. I guess it depends on the person, really. Besides, it's always nice to be able to explain to someone that you're going to zone out for a while because you're getting really into something and have them know what that's like.

As for the OT:

1) I would guess that more women enjoy RPGs because it often gives you chances to customise your own story experience and that's fun. Or maybe the ladies just love dragons. I know I do. I don't think it's because they're less competitive, personally. I get pretty competitive on things like WoW.

2) Multiplayer shooters tend to be kind of a crap social environment and it sucks getting abuse for using microphone, and that can turn some ladies off, so there's that. This is all just speculating.

3) No. Casual gaming is a gateway, we should be embracing casuals, not acting stupidly about them.

 

[Savagezion]

1. RPGs offer more freedom to be what you want and play how you want, particularly western RPGs. This means if a woman doesn't want to play a steroidal dudebro in rapeland, she doesn't have to. JRPGs, while they don't usually offer the same level of freedom, last I checked they were still less overtly sexist than AAA action games.

Steroidal dudbros in rapeland? What the hell kind of games are you playing?

2. Steroidal dudebros in rapeland. (Okay, most FPSes aren't set in rapeland, but they're like 99% steroidal dudebros.)

3. I think they should be counted separately, both for MAH VIDYA GAYMES Gamergaters and for the industry, because casual games and mobile games generally have different hardware requirements, different levels of investment, probably other practical differences I'm not thinking of. Basically how you've got it is fine; overall then by category.

I agree with that. I just had to post because "rapeland" cracked me up. OH yeah, and JRPGs are supposedly not as sexist as WRPGs. Japan... they actually make games in rapeland.

LOL, Captcha: That escalated quickly

 

[Colour Scientist]

Took less than a page to get to `Bla bla women are casuals`. Sighhhhhhhhh.

Spoiler: How irritatingly predictable.

Suffice it to say her and I really do like each other a lot because spending 3 years with someone literally a two feet behind you at all times is a huge test of the potential viability of a relationship..but the whole "dating a gamer/having a gamer girlfriend"...yeah, not the golden apple everyone thinks it is.

Really? How odd, this hasn't been my experience at all. Being with another gamer has always been pretty freaking sweet for me and Boyfriend. We game side-by-side and I don't think I've had any problems with immersion, or that he has. I guess it depends on the person, really. Besides, it's always nice to be able to explain to someone that you're going to zone out for a while because you're getting really into something and have them know what that's like.

As for the OT:

1) I would guess that more women enjoy RPGs because it often gives you chances to customise your own story experience and that's fun. Or maybe the ladies just love dragons. I know I do. I don't think it's because they're less competitive, personally. I get pretty competitive on things like WoW.

2) Multiplayer shooters tend to be kind of a crap social environment and it sucks getting abuse for using microphone, and that can turn some ladies off, so there's that. This is all just speculating.

3) No. Casual gaming is a gateway, we should be embracing casuals, not acting stupidly about them.

Why are you posting here, shouldn't you be off playing Farmville?

Filthy casual, can't even keep your crops alive.

 

[JennAnge]

Does it matter? No.
Have I ever met a girl gamer? No.
Have I ever met a male gamer? Many, many, many times.
Is the thread title click bait? Yes.

If all these girls really are playin' the vidja gamz, where are they? Why do they hide the fact? Why don't they socialize like everyone else in real life? Maybe a lot of those 'girls' are g.i.r.ls.

Either way, doesn't matter at all. What kind of point is there to prove here?

I'm going to assume that was a straight question on your part and not meant in an inflamatory way. Equally non-inflamatory answer to said question is as follows, along with elaboration on what it's been like being a girl gamer in the past two decades, if anybody's curious. Not curious? Stop here and skip to next post. Don't bother poking me, I'll just ignore you.


Where are they? Right here, in the forums, among other places. They've been very vocal lately. A few guys have been asking them to STFU, but quite a large number of other guys have been either neutral, reasonable or downright supportive, and that's been nice.


Why do they hide the fact and don't socialize? Meaning, I presume, why doesn't a girl come up to you more often and introduce herself as a gamer?

Fifteen years ago or more (I started playing games with Ultima back in the early '80s, just to situate) the answer to that would be: because we were embarrassed. GUY gamers were also embarrassed back then and usually did not broadcast their hobby at a first meeting for fear of being pegged as an 'unsocial manchild' by non-gamers - you may be too young to remember this period of Geek History, but that is how it was. GIRL gamers were even more embarrassed because if a guy playing games for a hobby was an unsocial manchild, that made us either unsocial tomboys or completely abnormal and definitely unfeminine. And that was not just from non-gamers; a few bona fide nerds and male gamers made me feel rather unwelcome. One insisted to my face during a con that I could not possibly be there on my own steam and I was only there to make my husband happy and was just not being honest about it. Not being argumentative, the spouse and I just walked away. I have not attended many cons. This was a decade and a half before the Fake Geek Girl hoopla, incidently. I for one was not all that surprised when that bizarre meme surfaced...

My first MMO was Everquest right before the milennia ticked over (then Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, some others now forgotten, the first Guild Wars briefly, eventualy ending up sinking Way Too Many Hours into WoW, followed by others in the recent years). The first five years or so that I played MMOs, I was frequently asked in EQ and WoW if I was a REAL girl. A few didn't believe me when I said Yes. One then repeatedly offered me gold if I gave him a lap dance (this would be in WoW, because I don't seem to recall even having /dance emotes back in EQ, or at least they didn't do anything. I told the guy I was going to report him and he called me - is there some kind of swear ratings on these forums? I don't know for sure, so let's just say he called me a lady dog of less than optimal temperature, and then he desisted).

In that time period, I read an article from one of the very rare female PC gaming journalists back then, in the UK version of PC gamer, recounting her experience playing an online shooter (don't remember which one, probably not CoD back then, it was 2000 or some year like that, predates most of the current ones). She'd made an article waaaay back then on a slow but growing presence of female gamers, and how they stayed incognito because of harrassement. To demonstrate, the journalist went online with an obviously female name and then recounted in the article the kind of stimulating conversation she got out of it...(Amusingly, it would be considered a pat on the head compared to modern day shooter forums) Made me personally determined never to play online shooters, even if I liked that kind of game - the closest I get to shooters is the half breeds like the Bioshocks, Mass Effects, Hitmans and Deus Ex.

BUT!!! But aside from the above, I also have to say this. For every bad experience I've had when I admitted I was female online, I've had three positive ones. For the idiots who didn't believe me, I had people who thought it was 'massively cool', or who also pointed out they were 'real girls' and invited me to gender friendly mature guilds. For every lapdance degenerate, I had dozens who openly admitted to envying my husband that he had someone who could join him on digital MMO adventures. And for the few unwelcoming guys in cons, I had others who took the time to tell me how cool it was that I was there, and that they hoped more girls would come and that their hobby might come out of its closet and be shared by more people. That's what I choose to remember from my earlier experiences as a gamer girl.

Nowadays, I don't hesitate to tell people I'm a gamer. They'll say 'Candy Crush?' and I'll answer 'No, but I recently broke 1000 hours of Skyrim on Steam!'. I still get odd looks, but usually I'll find guys AND GIRLS (yes, they exist) who say 'wow! I play that too!'. And that can only be a good thing. Especially since games have diversified, have matured in the past twenty years, and we've already come a long way, I'm glad to say.

No, I do not think females represent 50% or more of hardcore gamers (aka puts more than 10 hours a week into the hobby - my personal average is 15, which is virtually ALL my leisure, since I also have a job, kids, dogs etc). But to your remark that you know many, many guys who play and no girls...do you know as many girls as you know guys? And do you know those girls well enough that you actually know what their hobbies are? And are you sure they're telling the truth when they say 'reading' or 'TV'? Because a guy nowadays has no problem saying he plays games, especially to other guys. From my conversations with younger female gamers, however, there is still a stigma to saying that you sink 10+ hours a week into playing WoW. It is still considered unfeminine in some way. Probably because remarks like yours, doubting our very existence, does not make us feel as welcome as we could be...And that's not to mention the other crap going on lately. Still, it's hella improved, I know that much. I'm glad to be around to see it and am looking forward to how gaming will continue to mature and evolve and include more and more people. GAMES WILL RULE THE WORLD!

 

[Little Gray]

Irrelevant statistics are irrelevant. It does not matter what percentage as a whole are male or female because games do not appeal to the whole they appeal to specific groups.

50.2% out of 1000.

That's 2 people.

TWO. PEOPLE.

(EDIT: well okay, 4 people if you count the 2 men down from the probably 49.8%)

The margin for error is 3-4%.

This entire survey's results could be the result of a TYPO.

Math must not be your strong suit.

 

[Vigormortis]

No, they're not both "gamers" because your version of "gamers" wouldn't self-identify as such while "video game hobbyists" would. Even if you want to distort the term gamer to encompass "everyone that has ever played a video game" then it has no descriptive value and the point of this survey would be to say that more than half of PC "video game hobbyists" are women.

Distort? I'm distorting nothing.

Anyone that plays a video game in their spare time; notably those that devote a good portion of that free time to those games; is a gamer, in my book. I don't care what games they're playing, if they're playing video games as a dedicated pass-time, then they're a gamer.

To analogize: people that watch football every once in a while and generally keep up with scores in the newspaper might be "sports fans", but true "sports nuts" are the ones in the statistics and fantasy leagues who keep up with every pick of the draft, have complicated predictive models, and talk about every facet of the game. Gamers are the "sports nuts" of games, just because we don't have a great term apart from "casual gamer" to describe sports fans doesn't mean that everyone who follows football is a sports nut.

Like I said, we have a difference in definition.

You're operating under the definition that "gamer" is an exclusionary term. It's reserved solely for people who fit into a very narrow description that you've conceived of.

For me, as I've said above, a "gamer" is anyone who loves to play video games and spends their spare time playing them. It's not for anyone who's ever played a video game. I don't consider those people who sit in casinos playing video slots to be video gamers. I'm referring to those who actively seek out and play dedicated video games whenever they can or feel the desire to.

You discount those who only like to play "casual" or mobile games. But what of those "dude-bro" players who only play Call of Duty and Madden? Or those people who only play Final Fantasy or some other JRPG series? Or those that only play fighting games? They're avid fans of those games. They talk about them within and without the games. They spend exuberant levels of cash on the games and the systems to play them. They keep up to date on the developers and pro-player scenes associated with the games.

Are these players not gamers? Are they not "hardcore" enough for you to consider them gamers? If you consider them gamers, then how are they any different than those gamers who only play casual and mobile games? If you don't consider them gamers, then where do we draw the line on what a "real gamer" is? How many different games must one play before they're a gamer? How 'devoted' must one be to the medium to be considered a gamer?

This is why so many non-gamers view us in such a negative light, and why so many refuse to identify as a gamer. So many of us spend our time trying to define the term, and by corollary ourselves, in a such a way that we exclude anyone who may be different. Making "gamer" an exclusionary term undermines the very notion of "inclusiveness" so many of us keep insisting gamers strive for.

I'm not suggesting the term be made so broad as to encompass everyone who's ever played a game or just looked at a game screen once. I'm just saying that if someone spends a lot of time playing a video game, they're a gamer, even if you personally don't consider the games they play to be "real games".

snip

I just wanted to say thank you. It's always good to see a different perspective on things.

Though...not that different, in my case. A lot of my female gamer friends have had similar experiences.

Still, it's great to see a generally positive tale for once.

Thank you.

 

[Phasmal]

Why are you posting here, shouldn't you be off playing Farmville?

Filthy casual, can't even keep your crops alive.

I keep trying but there's buttons and things and I get confused and have to fan myself with a handbag or something.
It's awfully complicated. If only I was a manly man, being able to hold controllers and things.

Does it matter? No.
Have I ever met a girl gamer? No.
Have I ever met a male gamer? Many, many, many times.
Is the thread title click bait? Yes.

If all these girls really are playin' the vidja gamz, where are they? Why do they hide the fact? Why don't they socialize like everyone else in real life? Maybe a lot of those 'girls' are g.i.r.ls.

Either way, doesn't matter at all. What kind of point is there to prove here?

How did I miss this post?
Yeah dude, you caught us. We're just all dudes, secretly. We totally had you going, though.

Honestly, who cares if some guy hasn't met any female gamers? I never understand these kind of responses.

 

[Little Gray]

Why are you posting here, shouldn't you be off playing Farmville?

Filthy casual, can't even keep your crops alive.

I keep trying but there's buttons and things and I get confused and have to fan myself with a handbag or something.
It's awfully complicated. If only I was a manly man, being able to hold controllers and things.

Dont worry we will get you that stove shaped controller eventually.

 

[Savagezion]

Hmmm... so

If you have ever made a bet, you must be a a gambler.

If you have ever stolen anything, you must be a thief.

If you have ever lied, you must be a liar.

If you have ever seen someone naked, you must be a pervert.

This logic does not apply to ANY other criteria... why is that?

 

[deth2munkies]

No, they're not both "gamers" because your version of "gamers" wouldn't self-identify as such while "video game hobbyists" would. Even if you want to distort the term gamer to encompass "everyone that has ever played a video game" then it has no descriptive value and the point of this survey would be to say that more than half of PC "video game hobbyists" are women.

Distort? I'm distorting nothing.

Anyone that plays a video game in their spare time; notably those that devote a good portion of that free time to those games; is a gamer in my book. I don't care what games they're playing, if they're playing video games as a dedicated pass-time, then they're a gamer.

To analogize: people that watch football every once in a while and generally keep up with scores in the newspaper might be "sports fans", but true "sports nuts" are the ones in the statistics and fantasy leagues who keep up with every pick of the draft, have complicated predictive models, and talk about every facet of the game. Gamers are the "sports nuts" of games, just because we don't have a great term apart from "casual gamer" to describe sports fans doesn't mean that everyone who follows football is a sports nut.

Like I said, we have a difference in definition.

You're operating under the definition that "gamer" is an exclusionary term. It's reserved solely for people who fit into a very narrow description that you've conceived of.

For me, as I've said above, a "gamer" is anyone who loves to play video games and spends their spare time playing them. It's not for anyone who's ever played a video game. I don't consider those people who sit in casinos paying video slots to be video gamers. I'm referring to those who actively seek out and play dedicated video games whenever they can or feel the desire to.

You discount those who only like to play "casual" or mobile games. But what of those "dude-bro" players who only play Call of Duty and Madden? Or those people who only play Final Fantasy or some other JRPG series? Or those that only play fighting games? They're avid fans of those games. They talk about them within and without the games. They spend exuberant levels of cash on the games and the systems to play them. They keep up to date on the developers and pro-player scenes associated with the games.

Are these players not gamers? Are they not "hardcore" enough for you to consider them gamers? If you consider them gamers, then how are they any different than those gamers who only play casual and mobile games? If you don't consider them gamers, then where do we draw the line on what a "real gamer" is? How many different games must one play before they're a gamer? How 'devoted' must one be to the medium to be considered a gamer?

This is why so many non-gamers view us in such a negative light, and why so many refuse to identify as a gamer. So many of us spend our time trying to define the term, and by corollary ourselves, in a such a way that we exclude anyone who may be different. Making "gamer" an exclusionary term undermines the very notion of "inclusiveness" so many of us keep insisting gamers strive for.

I'm not suggesting the term be made so broad as to encompass everyone who's ever played a game or just looked at a game screen once. I'm just saying that if someone spends a lot of time playing a video game, they're a gamer, even if you personally don't consider the games they play to be "real games".

Every single term establishing a category is BY DEFINITION exclusionary. It may be a cute buzzword to throw around, but you can't claim that any group definition isn't exclusionary, that is the FUNCTION of grouping things. I don't want to split hairs or suggest that there is some minimum threshhold for how serious of a gamer you have to be to qualify. It's enough that you enjoy the medium, self identify, and participate in some way in the culture. If you think that's vague or broad, it's intentional. Anyone of any race, gender, or creed can become a gamer simply by wanting to.

The thing is, the average person who plays Farmville for 3 hours a week is unlikely to meet any one of those 3 prongs. They don't care about gaming or gaming culture, they just enjoy Farmville as a momentary distraction from their daily life and go on having other interests and hobbies, and that's perfectly fine.

Look, I'm of the opinion that gaming culture needs to adapt to becoming more widespread and mainstream and to stop acting like the nerd getting wedgies in the back of the class vowing revenge. We need to deal with the fact that we're growing out of our awkward teen years where we got picked on and are expected to mature as a subculture. That includes inviting everyone in and not acting exclusionary or tolerating any sort of this sexism or racism that has been present in the seedy underbelly since forever. I'm all for women in games. What I'm not for is distorting statistics, making huge sweeping generalizations, and using broad, meaningless labels to write off entire sections of the population.

This study is most likely a distortion of statistics both at the study level and at the journalistic level. My first post had all the study level, but at a journalistic level, this is being reported as women becoming prevalent in the gamer culture, and that's simply not true. Hopefully one day it will be close to 50% and mirror the population, but that day isn't today.

One more aside while I'm thinking about it:

Gamer culture is much more accepting than people give it credit for. With the numerous examples that I've personally either taken part in or seen playing Magic: The Gathering at card shops to every single thread on a gaming forum asking which games someone should start out with, gamers love sharing their hobby. We may squabble amongst ourselves about which is better, but in the end all we really care about is the love for games. In spite of recent events, the vast majority of my time with this subculture has been magnificent and I've seen wonderful things and immense charity and grace in difficult situations. I desire nothing but to see gaming flourish and people to enjoy not only their hobby, but interacting with other like minds and with people who are interested. No matter who those people might be.

 

[Vigormortis]

The thing is, the average person who plays Farmville for 3 hours a week is unlikely to meet any one of those 3 prongs. They don't care about gaming or gaming culture, they just enjoy Farmville as a momentary distraction from their daily life and go on having other interests and hobbies, and that's perfectly fine.

Look, I'm of the opinion that gaming culture needs to adapt to becoming more widespread and mainstream and to stop acting like the nerd getting wedgies in the back of the class vowing revenge. We need to deal with the fact that we're growing out of our awkward teen years where we got picked on and are expected to mature as a subculture. That includes inviting everyone in and not acting exclusionary or tolerating any sort of this sexism or racism that has been present in the seedy underbelly since forever. I'm all for women in games. What I'm not for is distorting statistics, making huge sweeping generalizations, and using broad, meaningless labels to write off entire sections of the population.

This study is most likely a distortion of statistics both at the study level and at the journalistic level. My first post had all the study level, but at a journalistic level, this is being reported as women becoming prevalent in the gamer culture, and that's simply not true. Hopefully one day it will be close to 50% and mirror the population, but that day isn't today.

I never implied twisting or distorting statistics nor did I suggest making any kind of sweeping generalizations. I detest sweeping generalizations. I was simply saying that, by my definition, even dedicated Facebook game players are gamers. That's all.

I'm not identifying them under some ideological blanket term, I'm using the term simply as a descriptor of their pass-time or hobbyist activities.

And really, I don't disagree. In fact, I think you and I are in agreement in a number of areas on this particular topic. It's just that I feel that removing much of the stigma and unnecessarily exclusionary tendencies associated with the term "gamer" can help with that goal.

That's all I was getting at.

 

[Cryselle]

The problem with this is the lack of granularity really. I'm not going to argue whether someone who plays social games is or isn't a gamer, because 'gamer' is a label that means different things to different people.

The problem is, nobody makes video games for 'gamers'. They make video games for FPS lovers, or RPG lovers, or sometimes even lovers of a specific game or series. EA makes Madden games for people who love Madden games, that's literally their target demographic. Wildstar was pretty much created for people who were in love with Vanilla and the Burning Crusade expansion of World of Warcraft. These are some pretty specifically targetted games here, and that's how the industry tends to work. A good study has to at least try to approach the same level of granularity as the subject of the study, or you can't really base any useful conclusions off of it. A Candy Crush player may be as valid to call a gamer as a competitive League of Legends player, but nobody cares when it comes to trying to predict who will line up to buy Bayonetta 2. You can't even ask me what my favorite game is without an immediate "In what genre?" response, because trying to combine all the different genres into a whole is absurd. The same goes for video gaming culture, FPS culture is not fighting game culture is not JRPG fandom is not Facebook gaming.

(Though, on an anecdotal note, both my partner and I own matching Mass Effect sweaters that we wear out on the town together, since we're both big fans of the series. By far more women have recognized and commented on them than men. Make of that what you will, I suppose?)

 

[mad825]

lol wat? This is not a opinion poll. This is objective information that is being gathered here. Surveys need a large sample size, have you never done a scientific survey before?

I have, and you're talking nonsense.

pfffft like hell you have.

Did you miss the part where I said you were free to question the methodology? Like, seriously, don't ask me questions that run contrary to what I wrote. It's either dishonest or ignorant, and both are a waste of time.

Lulz, So let me get this straight, you say that this survey is valid and yet when I question you about it, you refuse and throw rude remarks. Sorry, it sounds like you're on the SJW wagon. it's either dishonest or ignorant, and both are a waste of time, two can play at that game.

 

[Beliyal]

Does it matter? No.
Have I ever met a girl gamer? No.
Have I ever met a male gamer? Many, many, many times.
Is the thread title click bait? Yes.

If all these girls really are playin' the vidja gamz, where are they? Why do they hide the fact? Why don't they socialize like everyone else in real life? Maybe a lot of those 'girls' are g.i.r.ls.

Either way, doesn't matter at all. What kind of point is there to prove here?

Some people already answered you, including a very nice big post that I identify with a lot, but perhaps if more people answer you, maybe you'll understand better why we hide the fact.

We hide it because we are in a position where our enjoyment of video games is questioned, denied, attacked and shamed. Admitting that you play games brought many women into unwanted positions of being laughed at, aggressively checked for gamer-cred, outright accused of lying and often singled out as undesirable ugly bitches or men in disguise (if online).

We hide because of posts like yours.

And if someone IRL said something like you said, you bet your ass that I wouldn't say anything and expose myself to the hostile environment in which I would likely be all alone.

Luckily, things are changing so I'm no longer afraid or reluctant to present myself as someone who plays games, I even wear shirts that obviously tell everyone that I play games or I play on my 2DS in public. But I still remain "the odd one" in the group, unless I manage to find a group of other gamers (who already know that I am a gamer too. I won't ever approach people I don't know and join them in their gaming talk, at least not any time soon, there is just too much risk attached and I simply don't have the will to expose myself to anything social anxiety inducing).

If you want to meet women who play games, try asking nicely and not dismissing them. And don't ever use this rhetoric about how we're some fabled unicorns just because women have not fallen before your feet and proclaimed themselves to be gamers. We are here and we exist and it would be nice to say something welcoming instead of using dated memes to deny our existence.

 

[HalfTangible]

Irrelevant statistics are irrelevant. It does not matter what percentage as a whole are male or female because games do not appeal to the whole they appeal to specific groups.

50.2% out of 1000.

That's 2 people.

TWO. PEOPLE.

(EDIT: well okay, 4 people if you count the 2 men down from the probably 49.8%)

The margin for error is 3-4%.

This entire survey's results could be the result of a TYPO.

Math must not be your strong suit.

50.2% = 50.2/100 = 502/1000

2 people over the halfway mark, 4 more than the remaining.

Margin of error: 3-4% = 30-40 people.

So... no. Not over the margin of error.