Mentally Ill Teenage Girl Dies From Suffocation During Exorcism
- Thread starter Leg End
- Start date
Hitler was Roman Catholic. And in his own book, he praises the Glory of Jesus. Not only that, but in MANY of his speeches he invokes the Name of God and Jesus. Hitler even had Papal Sacntion to do what he wanted. The German Army celebrated the Holy Holidays, and had Chaplan units assigned to them just like the US had. Make no mistake, Hitler was a Christitan, no matter what ignorrant people want to tell you, that have never really studied WW2.lacktheknack said:
Heh...lacktheknack said:
I think this is a reactionary point, people like Al Sharpton like to point at the holocaust and Soviet Russia and say "look what happens when you don't follow God!". At which point it needs to be pointed out that the vast majority of Germany was Roman Catholic or Lutheran at the time. Whilst Adolf Hitler's beliefs are open to speculation, at the very least he capitalized on pre-existing prejudices that were routed in Christian teachings of the time if not on the scripture itself.
Make your own mind up, obviously. But there are plenty of people who believe that Christian condemnation could have averted the disaster and feel that an official apology is owed. If things stay true to form, that apology will come in a few hundred years, if ever.
Punching out.
- Panda.
Find me a single place that Hitler claims to murder everyone FOR the glory of God.Bluntman1138 said:
The general attitude here is unsurprising given that these forums are largely populated by left wing atheists.
The odd thing here is that a lot of people on these forums are also quick to point out SOME support for unexplained phenomena, or at least some aspects of it. I don't believe I'm the only one who has pointed out in the past that ghosts/hauntings are accepted to exist in society, with there being laws about realtors not being allowed to sell houses with a "history" without disclosing that information to the buyer.
While many extreme skeptics embrace various explanations about events, the bottom line is that in many cases of the paranormal there really AREN'T any that have been universally accepted. You typically wind up with a side embracing a theory, calling the people who believe in a paranormal event or not accepting the explanation a stupid head, and vice versa. In the end though when you get down to it the goverment has largely kept things low key, but can't deny the existance of wierd stuff, even if we aren't exactly funding teams of monster stompers or something equally comic like. On the other hand paranormal investigations have become a staple of reality TV with mixed reception.
The point here is that if someone had not played the whole "religion" card here, how would this situation be received on these forums? Perhaps much the same way, but it will be a little more mixed. After all while mental illness exists, we haven't exactly had things like possession ruled out entirely, we simple have people who think they have. If a house can be haunted or possesed, why not a person? Haunted houses ridiculous? Well try and sell a house with a history without teling someone, and see how solidly you get hammered if they wind up complaining about it when they say wierd stuff started to happen.
Now, don't get the impression I go running around seeing ghosts everywhere, or engage in stupid superstitions, I am pretty rational overall, I just have never been convinced that this kind of thing doesn't exist, especially seeing as a lot of the actual official
inquiries into the matter haven't exactly come back universally negative and the laws reflect this in a few relatively obscure areas. It's also noteworthy that a lot of the places that have the most consistant reputations wind up getting sealed off by either public or private means, then as time goes on people tend to either forget about them or have the stories become more ridiculous as fictional ones are added and time passes. A good example of this would be Dudleytown here in Connecticut (look it up). The longer it's been sealed off (privatly) the less people have heard about it, and the more ridiculous the claims about it seem as time and fiction grow, but at one time that was a source of a lot of occurances
and people generally aren't alowed to go poking around in there to find out, at least not anymore.
The basic point here is that the situation sucks all around, and is hardly unprecedented, however if nobody died, or if the religion card wasn;t involved, I think a lot of people on these forums would be going "whoa... cool" instead. Truthfully, I don't have any first hand knowlege of the situation, so I can't comment on the whole mental illness aspect of things, other than to say that if they know about mental illness to begin with it's probably unlikely that they actually decide "oh yes, let's have an exorcism" immediatly since it was apparently diagnosed first and apparently treatment wasn't going well.
The odd thing here is that a lot of people on these forums are also quick to point out SOME support for unexplained phenomena, or at least some aspects of it. I don't believe I'm the only one who has pointed out in the past that ghosts/hauntings are accepted to exist in society, with there being laws about realtors not being allowed to sell houses with a "history" without disclosing that information to the buyer.
While many extreme skeptics embrace various explanations about events, the bottom line is that in many cases of the paranormal there really AREN'T any that have been universally accepted. You typically wind up with a side embracing a theory, calling the people who believe in a paranormal event or not accepting the explanation a stupid head, and vice versa. In the end though when you get down to it the goverment has largely kept things low key, but can't deny the existance of wierd stuff, even if we aren't exactly funding teams of monster stompers or something equally comic like. On the other hand paranormal investigations have become a staple of reality TV with mixed reception.
The point here is that if someone had not played the whole "religion" card here, how would this situation be received on these forums? Perhaps much the same way, but it will be a little more mixed. After all while mental illness exists, we haven't exactly had things like possession ruled out entirely, we simple have people who think they have. If a house can be haunted or possesed, why not a person? Haunted houses ridiculous? Well try and sell a house with a history without teling someone, and see how solidly you get hammered if they wind up complaining about it when they say wierd stuff started to happen.
Now, don't get the impression I go running around seeing ghosts everywhere, or engage in stupid superstitions, I am pretty rational overall, I just have never been convinced that this kind of thing doesn't exist, especially seeing as a lot of the actual official
inquiries into the matter haven't exactly come back universally negative and the laws reflect this in a few relatively obscure areas. It's also noteworthy that a lot of the places that have the most consistant reputations wind up getting sealed off by either public or private means, then as time goes on people tend to either forget about them or have the stories become more ridiculous as fictional ones are added and time passes. A good example of this would be Dudleytown here in Connecticut (look it up). The longer it's been sealed off (privatly) the less people have heard about it, and the more ridiculous the claims about it seem as time and fiction grow, but at one time that was a source of a lot of occurances
and people generally aren't alowed to go poking around in there to find out, at least not anymore.
The basic point here is that the situation sucks all around, and is hardly unprecedented, however if nobody died, or if the religion card wasn;t involved, I think a lot of people on these forums would be going "whoa... cool" instead. Truthfully, I don't have any first hand knowlege of the situation, so I can't comment on the whole mental illness aspect of things, other than to say that if they know about mental illness to begin with it's probably unlikely that they actually decide "oh yes, let's have an exorcism" immediatly since it was apparently diagnosed first and apparently treatment wasn't going well.
Go read Mein Kampf. It's all in there. The Passion was one of his inspirations for his "Final Solution".lacktheknack said:
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. According to your last paragraph I would say that we're mostly in agreement on the situation, seek all possible medical help and then explore other answers from there. The other point I was making is that it's simply human nature to defend your beliefs when other people try to associate you with things you don't believe in.ShadowsofHope said:
When I first started reading, I pictured the father to be some Catholic redneck in the US somewhere. I was not expecting it to be a Japanese buddhist, I thought the Japanese and buddhists in general knew better than that.
The best part of all of this is the people on this forum that think demonic possession is actually possible. Even if demons existed, dont you think they would have something better to do than possess one person and make their head swivel around? Wouldnt it cause more mayhem if they forced the person theyre possessing to blow up a public building or make them drive around in a van solving mysteries with a talking dog?
The best part of all of this is the people on this forum that think demonic possession is actually possible. Even if demons existed, dont you think they would have something better to do than possess one person and make their head swivel around? Wouldnt it cause more mayhem if they forced the person theyre possessing to blow up a public building or make them drive around in a van solving mysteries with a talking dog?
I'm a Christian, and I believe demon possession is possible, but as stated already, the vast majority of the cases are not legit. I believe that medical options should be put first. When I was a little, I got really sick. My parents (who are also Christians) didn't just sit back and let God take care of everything. They actually went around to different doctors to try to figure out what I had. Turned out to be chrones disease.
That said, to the majority of this thread, I respect that everyone has an opinion, but there is no call to be vicious and arrogant and treating others who have a different opinion than your own like they're lesser human beings. I have also realized that the popular thoughts on religion are gross generalizations and only apply to a fraction of religious people.
That said, to the majority of this thread, I respect that everyone has an opinion, but there is no call to be vicious and arrogant and treating others who have a different opinion than your own like they're lesser human beings. I have also realized that the popular thoughts on religion are gross generalizations and only apply to a fraction of religious people.
I'm a Christian, and I completely agree. I do believe in demons and in the possibility of demonic influence/possession, but I wholeheartedly agree that the VAST majority of supposed cases of demons (in the modern day and especially throughout history) are cases of people looking for a supernatural explanation that isn't there.Queen Michael said:
What the monk and father did to that girl was abusive and torturous. I hope that they are prosecuted. What I find truly astonishing is the idea that they'd done this to the girl "a hundred times before." Were they known to be doing this at the time? If so, why didn't someone try to stop them?
Incidentally, I, at least, appreciate the theatricality of your exaggerated nines. I realise you weren't trying to make an exact statistical statement. But I am Irish and we exaggerate like we eat, sleep, and breathe. ;-)
I tend to agree. While evil spirits may influence this world, I think such beings would try to subtly push us towards evil (like in The Screwtape Letters [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Screwtape_Letters]) rather than mimicking symptoms of physical and mental illness. I believe that biblical passages that incline us to a contrary position are really based in the understanding of medicine that people had at the time when said passages were being written. They should certainly not be used as medical advice today.chiggerwood said:
Incidentally, I, at least, appreciate the theatricality of your exaggerated nines. I realise you weren't trying to make an exact statistical statement. But I am Irish and we exaggerate like we eat, sleep, and breathe. ;-)
I know lots of people with degrees and post-graduate qualifications in theology who aren't personally religious. One doesn't have to believe in a thing to be an expert in it.ShadowsofHope said:
This is clearly a case of two men wrongfully performing an exorcist and using the "She was possessed" excuse for the girl's eventual demise. The fact that this was done to her many times before raises the question if the father was himself paranoid/mentally ill and that the monk was clearly unqualified to perform exorcisms.
I'm so sick of seeing this crap.Hammeroj said:
Atheists claiming that Hitler was acting on behalf of Christianity.
Christians claiming that it was the influence of atheists philosophers like Neitzche that paved the way for Nazism.
It's all pro-Christian or pro-Atheism propaganda garbage!!!
History teacher here! Let me clue you in...
Hitler was neither a representative of Christian religion nor was he fueled by people like Neitzche. Nazi Germany completely barred religious influence and replaced the infant baptism ceremony that was in German churches ceremony with a sort of neo-pagan "naming ceremony."
All of Hitler's actions relating to relgion once he came into power were neither indicative of western christian philosophy nor western atheist philosophy. If anything Nazi Germany had a strange sort of neo-pagan religion that glorified the "master Aryan German race" above all things.
Stop propagating historical lies that only exist to defame people who believe differently than you.
Not what I meant. I meant that most people not taking theology as a college level course to obtain a degree or a PhD later on in college are usually focusing on courses in order to get into a career they desire to be a part of later on in their adult life. It's foolish to say that those whom choose to follow their career paths fully through their school years and don't take a theology course on the side can't ever criticize religion, especially when there are other more useful, various sources in places such as libraries and the internet in which to learn more on religions without taking a fancy course for it. Saying you can only criticize religions if you have a college or university level degree understanding of it's concepts is somewhat special pleading, considering many religious individuals would not give non-religious topics such as science and medicine the same virtue in return.Estelindis said:
Therein lies the fundamental flaw behind the concept of supernatural manipulation. At what point does someone differentiate between it being supernatural and medical? Not that it matters, because the law does not give one red cent about supernatural mumbo-jumbo rubbish. That's exactly what the supernatural is, rubbish. It's an excuse with no substantiating evidence to get out of something. It's a desperate attempt to reject accountability so that the fragile ego of and individual remains inviolate.Project_Omega said:
Fortunately, the law shall put these murdering, torturing, scumbags in their place.
Additionally: "Kumamoto Prefectural Police said the teenager died of suffocation and that she had undergone the ritual a hundred times before."
At what point during those 100 other times, should the "monk" have said, "you know what, this isn't working, bugger all let's try something else."
I agree with you. The whole thing reminds me of the well-known story about a guy in a flood who goes up to the roof of his house and prays for God to help him. People in a boat come along and offer to rescue him, but he refuses: "God will save me!" Waters keep rising. Later, rescuers in a helicopter try to save him, but he gives them the same answer. The waters rise further and he drowns. In the next world, he demands to know where God was when he prayed for help. "I sent a boat and a helicopter, but you didn't seem to want them!" is the reply. God gives us our brains so that we can use them. So many possibilities exist because of the personal gifts of the people who developed (and continue to develop) medical science, and Christians believe that those gifts come from God. To refuse to use medicine and instead demand the gift of personal, miraculous intervention from God is to ignore the gift He has already given us in the talents of doctors and nurses.Berithil said:
Thank you. As far as I can tell, Hitler did his best to use Christian feeling as a tool and wanted to co-opt and modify the structures of the church to serve his own purposes, but ultimately it was just one of the many ways he manipulated people. Looks like he's still getting people to believe his propaganda today.remnant_phoenix said:
Well, I agree with you.ShadowsofHope said:
I just disputed the idea that religious qualification was equivalent to religious belief, since you appeared to be claiming just that.For the record, I think that everyone has the right to an opinion on any issue, but if they want the content of that opinion to be respected then they should be ready to back it up. Not necessarily with a PhD, of course, but at the same time they should be willing to be corrected if an expert can offer better insight on the subject (and is willing to explain it, of course, rather than just bludgeoning them with the letters after their name).