Message to all anime viewers(NSFW): Cross Ange Tenshi to Ryu no Rondo

KOMega

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Whatever the plot is, a lot of it seems very rushed or shoehorned. If there is a manga or something this is being made from, I feel like they really rushed past a lot of things. I suppose it did it's job to present the setting and type of world this is, sort of. But it did it in such a way that I was able to call almost everything that was going to happen.

The scene at the end I don't mind as much as this feeling of rushing through the plot.

Still, the opening scene was pretty cool, so I'd keep watching and hope that this rushed plot is just trying to get past the backstory asap or something like that. The ending credits I will say does really shift the tone and makes me wonder what this show is really about. But again it did a good ob with the action scene at the beginning, and the random racism towards "normas" so I'd like to see if there is an interesting story around this, despite the fanservice. Don't shoot the messenger you know?
 

Candidus

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Just dropping by to say that I'm liking this one so far!

If I have one complaint it's that the scene everyone's crying about was too brief. Not since Sekai de Ichiban has there been a decent all-girl torture/ryona anime, and in this respect Cross Ange isn't answering the call either. It's a shame. Ideally this scene would have been the start of episode 2 and it would have been protracted.

What appears to be non-con molestation in the preview is promising, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to peter out as the mecha and dragon-slaying kicks in. Pity, that.

Edit: I guess I shouldn't be greedy. The last Vanquished Queens special wasn't that long ago.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Candidus said:
Just dropping by to say that I'm liking this one so far!

If I have one complaint it's that the scene everyone's crying about was too brief. Not since Sekai de Ichiban has there been a decent all-girl torture/ryona anime, and in this respect Cross Ange isn't answering the call either. It's a shame. Ideally this scene would have been the start of episode 2 and it would have been protracted.

What appears to be non-con molestation in the preview is promising, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to peter out as the mecha and dragon-slaying kicks in. Pity, that.

Edit: I guess I shouldn't be greedy. The last Vanquished Queens special wasn't that long ago.
Wait, time out. You wanted the poorly framed, extremely exploitative and highly dissonant scene to have been longer?

I already made my complaints about it and I can't begin to comprehend what you are saying. I suppose you and I look for different things but there has to be better shows for what you want and I still question what you are saying
 

kyp275

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Izanagi009 said:
Wait, time out. You wanted the poorly framed, extremely exploitative and highly dissonant scene to have been longer?

I already made my complaints about it and I can't begin to comprehend what you are saying. I suppose you and I look for different things but there has to be better shows for what you want and I still question what you are saying
Go back and read that again, and tell me how you can possibly not realize how condescending what you just wrote is.

Seriously, what Imperator wrote is spot on. You're starting to come across as someone who's going out of their way to look for stuff to be offended by at this point.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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kyp275 said:
Izanagi009 said:
Wait, time out. You wanted the poorly framed, extremely exploitative and highly dissonant scene to have been longer?

I already made my complaints about it and I can't begin to comprehend what you are saying. I suppose you and I look for different things but there has to be better shows for what you want and I still question what you are saying
Go back and read that again, and tell me how you can possibly not realize how condescending what you just wrote is.

Seriously, what Imperator wrote is spot on. You're starting to come across as someone who's going out of their way to look for stuff to be offended by at this point.
I will admit that I sound condescending but when stuff like Cross Ange comes out and I report on it, I have to watch it to find out why people said what they said and the result is not good in this case.

For the record, I have seen this episode and made my reaction clear. Critically, I don't get this scene. I don't get why it exists, why it's framed the way it is or why the scene right after was so different in tone.

And then I see this person who clearly has different interests shows up and confuses me because I don't understand his reasoning.

I admit I should tone down the rhetoric a bit but this scene made me so angry and to think Sunrise made something worse than Valvrave's scene. I thought Sunrise would know better
 

Candidus

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Izanagi009 said:
What do you think is going on here?

To me, it looks like this is a TV broadcast H-anime. You get a couple of these each season, and starved, desperate H-anime viewers come sniffing around to see if their particular fetish is being catered to this time.

In my view what you're doing is like... Mistaking a hardcore playspace for a vanilla singles meet-and-greet. You're going crazy because the people inside are doing kinky and sometimes outright dangerous shit all over the place; but ehh, this is precisely the place for it and you're the black sheep here fella.

You just walked into the wrong venue, kicked up a fuss, and the H-anime vultures like me are left standing there, blinking at you and thinking [edit]: "Get a load of this guy..."

That's what I think is happening here.

Just to clarify my particular stance and perversion: in H-anime, I want non-consensual yuri and torture (ryona). These are fantasies that I absolutely love to entertain as fantasies and absolutely DO NOT want to come true for anyone. Just like 99% of noncon and ryona viewers.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Candidus said:
Izanagi009 said:
What do you think is going on here?

To me, it looks like this is a TV broadcast H-anime. You get a couple of these each season, and starved, desperate H-anime viewers come sniffing around to see if their particular fetish is being catered to this time.

In my view what you're doing is like... Mistaking a hardcore playspace for a vanilla singles meet-and-greet. You're going crazy because the people inside are doing kinky and sometimes outright dangerous shit all over the place; but ehh, this is precisely the place for it and you're the black sheep here fella.

You just walked into the wrong venue, kicked up a fuss, and the H-anime vultures like me are left standing there, blinking at you and thinking "eh wot?".

That's what I think is happening here.

Just to clarify my particular stance and perversion: in H-anime, I want non-consensual yuri and torture (ryona). These are fantasies that I absolutely love to entertain as fantasies and absolutely DO NOT want to come true for anyone. Just like 99% of noncon and ryona viewers.
And I ask, why would Sunrise advertise this normally? This thing had prominent voice actors, two of them sing the opening and ending along with a deal by a license company which would be skittish about such content though with Recently, My Sister is Unusual, I can say they are less skittish. Also, why would a H-anime get front page on the October 2014 Newtype magazine


Also, Crunchyroll did not have an age gate in place; even as a member, an age gate still pops up for Valvrave so why not this if it was a H-anime.

If this was truly a H-anime, why would it get so much attention and why the lack of an age gate. I understand liking H-anime, hell I read doujins all the sodding time but this was advertised as "Giant robots beating dragons" and we get ass shot and torture in the first episode. If you like hardcore, fine but the advertising does not make the classification of Cross Ange as a H-anime very plausible.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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It seems this is only partially h-anime therefore it has enough robots and dragons too, justifying a portrayal of those elements of the show in this light. It's not the first time two genres combine for a new result.

Izanagi009 said:
Candidus said:
Just dropping by to say that I'm liking this one so far!

If I have one complaint it's that the scene everyone's crying about was too brief. Not since Sekai de Ichiban has there been a decent all-girl torture/ryona anime, and in this respect Cross Ange isn't answering the call either. It's a shame. Ideally this scene would have been the start of episode 2 and it would have been protracted.

What appears to be non-con molestation in the preview is promising, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to peter out as the mecha and dragon-slaying kicks in. Pity, that.

Edit: I guess I shouldn't be greedy. The last Vanquished Queens special wasn't that long ago.
Wait, time out. You wanted the poorly framed, extremely exploitative and highly dissonant scene to have been longer?

I already made my complaints about it and I can't begin to comprehend what you are saying. I suppose you and I look for different things but there has to be better shows for what you want and I still question what you are saying

Yeah see, this is the level of judgement that all those reviews reek from. It's like, crystallized pre-deployed judgement of super high purity aimed at anyone who seems to have a different opinion. It was what I was talking about when I explained that the attitude permeating these kinds of posts reeks of "if you like this, you're a horrible person" thus making them failures as anything more than outraged whining.


You or the stuff you are able understand aren't the default for humanity. There's no "normal person" that you represent and then all the other freaks. Everyone's different and normalcy is an illusion. You're acting as though something must be wrong here because you can't understand something. No dude, it's perfectly right for there to be many many things beyond your understanding. You're only human. Start acting like it XD.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Dreiko said:
It seems this is only partially h-anime therefore it has enough robots and dragons too, justifying a portrayal of those elements of the show in this light. It's not the first time two genres combine for a new result.

Izanagi009 said:
Candidus said:
Just dropping by to say that I'm liking this one so far!

If I have one complaint it's that the scene everyone's crying about was too brief. Not since Sekai de Ichiban has there been a decent all-girl torture/ryona anime, and in this respect Cross Ange isn't answering the call either. It's a shame. Ideally this scene would have been the start of episode 2 and it would have been protracted.

What appears to be non-con molestation in the preview is promising, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to peter out as the mecha and dragon-slaying kicks in. Pity, that.

Edit: I guess I shouldn't be greedy. The last Vanquished Queens special wasn't that long ago.
Wait, time out. You wanted the poorly framed, extremely exploitative and highly dissonant scene to have been longer?

I already made my complaints about it and I can't begin to comprehend what you are saying. I suppose you and I look for different things but there has to be better shows for what you want and I still question what you are saying

Yeah see, this is the level of judgement that all those reviews reek from. It's like, crystallized pre-deployed judgement of super high purity aimed at anyone who seems to have a different opinion. It was what I was talking about when I explained that the attitude permeating these kinds of posts reeks of "if you like this, you're a horrible person" thus making them failures as anything more than outraged whining.


You or the stuff you are able understand aren't the default for humanity. There's no "normal person" that you represent and then all the other freaks. Everyone's different and normalcy is an illusion. You're acting as though something must be wrong here because you can't understand something. No dude, it's perfectly right for there to be many many things beyond your understanding. You're only human. Start acting like it XD.
I will admit that I should have retracted the rhetoric and toned it down but why should I not try to understand? From a critical perspective, the scene fails in a lot of ways and ultimately seems too poorly executed to have the impact that Sunrise probably wanted. Anime is not like real life; what a person puts on screen has a purpose or reason for being on screen and framed the way it is. If a normal scene fails in its purpose, most people would call it out so why not here.

I will however retract my statement in light of Candidus informing me and while I highly disagree with him, I can see his point of view and we ultimately had different ideas on what the show was meant to be.

I still stand by my assertion that the show is too flawed given both the scene and the other stuff around it to make me want to continue watching but I suppose I need to tone down the rhetoric

Edit: while I suppose the introduction of ecchi elements could make it partially an h-anime, I stand by the assertion that the advertisement and prominence of cast make it hard to see it as anything but a mass market anime.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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EmpReb said:
Izanagi009 said:
EmpReb said:
Oh boy.... I wounder how would Elfin Lied's First 10 Minutes get interpreted now. Oh well will just keep my eye on this one cause I got enough animes this season.

EDIT: Ok I started the show(its on CR) and well I found out its by Sunrise them pulling something questionable in one of the episodes is not beyond them. I mean you don't have to look that far to see Valvere the liberator about one year ago HAD A FUCKING RAPE SCENE. So yeah I am not surprised but digging this mecha design. So yeah guys nothing beyound WTF Japan and people who don't get it whining again about something that they should be used to by now or just not watch..
WTF Japan is not an excuse for me or many other people. Japan is not some abnormality in culture; the way it treats rape is almost the same as America does which is to say "you better be damn careful not to be tasteless". Also, if Sunrise has done this before, WHY WOULD THEY DO IT AGAIN, ITS GOING TO BACKFIRE.

A few more points

-Why go through the rectum to operate on the spine? There are several inches between the rectum and the very tip of the spine and that's not taking into account the twisting nature of the lower intestine and the thickness of the intestine wall. Also, why the lower spine? If you want good neurological signals, the back of the neck or the brain are better signal receiving areas.

-Why is there a scene of naked women fondling each other after the credits? I know that being stuck what is essentially a prison with other women around you will lead to circumstances but why did it have to be on screen? Is it to show how society has changed like in Brave New World or Shin Sekai Yori because I am very doubtful of that.

-What is so intrinsic to women that only they are norma? Is it the extra x chromosome because that would imply recessive traits which would be eliminated by now given how long these programs have probably been going.

-Why would the brother mate with his own sister? History has shown that repeated intermixing of family members like this leads to deformities and also make it easy for the families to tie off. If it's just for "i'm evil", then there are better ways of doing it than sodding inbreeding.

This show is not worth making excuses, it's just tasteless. it's spiteful and hateful and deserves to be in the garbage.
And I am ok with you thinking that way. Just strange some of the show I though would be the most tastless end up having some of the best plots I seen in anime(Not GITS or Fullmetal territory but up there).

WitchBlade

Hyakka Ryōran: Samurai Girls

High School DxD

Elfen Lied

just to name a few I just wanted to watch for the pure baseless fanservice then less than 3 episodes end I was watching for the FREAKING plot?! Its weird, very weird but then again I could be wrong and this is a Queen's Blade Mecha then I will drop it fast(Queen's Blade is worthless shit tier). Still its one freaking episode and its Sunrise. I have reasons to believable this could turn out great and given the Sunrise rule the one tasteless scene per season or show is already gone I have nothing but mecha fun to look forward to. Oh and I have yet to see Sunrise bad scene trope cause a whole show to flop.
I kinda like ecchi shows and do watch them mostly for what little character dev and plot that have. Can't stand To Luv Ru anymore tho its gone into hentai service mode and is basically 100% fan service.

I kinda liked the first 2 seasons of queens blade but ya its mostly tripe.
 

Candidus

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Izanagi009 said:
the advertising does not make the classification of Cross Ange as a H-anime very plausible.
So you're saying you don't believe your eyes when watching the content. Ange isn't an H-anime because the advertising and exposure levels say it isn't?

Actually never mind, obviously that's not what you're saying and asking like that is just sparring, not discussing... Rather are you saying that it shouldn't have been an H-anime because they exposed it like nobody should be ashamed to watch it?

Well no doubt it blindsided a lot of people for that reason. Actually it blindsided me too, although my feelings about being blindsided obviously differ from yours. Having said that, listen. With triggering stuff like abuse, I don't think throwing curve-balls to keep people on their toes is a cool thing to do. I live in the UK so I have to get this particular series by other means(tm), so I wasn't aware that CR had neglected to gate it. I sure think they should have.

But I don't think extensive advertising and big names ought to convince you or CR or anyone that there won't be any H content. Berzerk wasn't really an H-anime, but it had a graphic rape scene- far more so than Cross Ange's improbable posterior implant.

Sometimes the story just goes there. And I don't think it was dissonant even though it was obviously anatomically preposterous. It was TOTALLY gratuitous. But not dissonant. Unnecessary, but not dissonant.
 

renegade7

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First, I may as well lay my prejudices out on the table here, I'm rather anti-fanservice, mostly for the reasons. It's unnecessary to the plot, it disengages me from the story, and it cheapens the experience by making the developers think they can do that instead of real quality or character development. That doesn't mean that I'm opposed to sexuality on the whole, because it absolutely can be a good narrative and character development device. But let's try to use an ounce of discretion, please.

If I want spank material, I will look up spank material. There is an abundance of stuff out there that's much better than a few animated T&A shots. If you want to make spank material, then by all means, do so, but don't try to pass it off as anything other than that.

Moving on:

I get that it's a spine implant thing.

Look, I've read about spinal surgeries. Sure, it's never pleasant, but that's something entirely apart from the scene as it was described here. If we're taking this to be science fiction, that is, in the future, we should not expect a surgical procedure as delicate as interfacing a computer with your spinal cord to be that horrendous and brutish.

Of course, maybe there was to be some plot development, like her suffering was a metaphorical sacrifice or trial, or that there are supposed to be hints that maybe there is some moral ambiguity on the part of the organization she is enlisting with. If that was the case, I MIGHT buy it. But I don't.

It's not that I'm unwilling to suspend my disbelief. Given that I have a background in physics and engineering, I would not be able to even watch sci-fi if I was unable to do that. But there is a difference between plot devices (magic, warp drives, time travel, etc) and contrivances. Saying that an operation will be painful and bloody is one thing if there is some narrative justification for it: Warhammer 40,000's character backstories pull this off all the time without serious trouble. Using a contrived plot explanation as an excuse to have what, for all intents and purposes, looked like a rape scene, is not only something that takes me out of the story, it's also really kind of fucked up.

Okay, fine, maybe I'll just suspend a little more disbelief and go with the argument that it just LOOKED like a rape scene but was sincerely meant to be a depiction of some kind of surgery. Well...why? If they're performing an operation on her, why no anesthetic? The spinal cord is an extremely delicate organ, even small damage can cause permanent disability: why did the people installing the spine thing have to be forceful and violent about it? Why, after this whole ordeal, did she seem to be just fine about the whole thing? Just in general, if the justification is that it's a surgery, a delicate, highly ordered procedure, why did it have to look anything like a rape scene?



DarkhoIlow said:
that thing was necessary to build up her character and toughen her up as a soldier

Nostras are the lowest of the low and are treated as such. It wasn't anal rape..the boss of that facility that trains the soldiers did the necessary thing by taking her virginity to build her into an hard soldier..they don't have time for flowery princesess in the military.
See above what I wrote about contrivances. That attempt at an explanation in particular makes it worse, not better, because it's suggesting that raping someone is "building character" and that violently "taking her virginity" will cause her to feel some sort of obligation to her boss, or that being "the lowest of the low" makes one deserving of being raped. That takes it away from "tasteless sex scene" to full-on male power fantasy.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Candidus said:
Izanagi009 said:
the advertising does not make the classification of Cross Ange as a H-anime very plausible.
So you're saying you don't believe your eyes when watching the content. Ange isn't an H-anime because the advertising and exposure levels say it isn't?

Actually never mind, obviously that's not what you're saying and asking like that is just sparring, not discussing... Rather are you saying that it shouldn't have been an H-anime because they exposed it like nobody should be ashamed to watch it?

Well no doubt it blindsided a lot of people for that reason. Actually it blindsided me too, although my feelings about being blindsided obviously differ from yours. Having said that, listen. With triggering stuff like abuse, I don't think throwing curve-balls to keep people on their toes is a cool thing to do. I live in the UK so I have to get this particular series by other means(tm), so I wasn't aware that CR had neglected to gate it. I sure think they should have.

But I don't think extensive advertising and big names ought to convince you or CR or anyone that there won't be any H content. Berserk wasn't really an H-anime, but it had a graphic rape scene- far more so than Cross Ange's improbable posterior implant.

Sometimes the story just goes there. And I don't think it was dissonant even though it was obviously anatomically preposterous.
No, you are right with the exposure thing. It seemed too exposed for something of this type

Also, having watched it, they did not mention an implant during the scene so I assume that it was probably a cavity search. This begs a few questions like why the bleeding since the rectum has the ability to stretch a considerable amount so bleeding should not be so intense. And while Berserk does have rape in it, it fits the tone of the story and was written much better than this. I suppose people can still be made uncomfortable by it but writing is able to blunt a lot of the scene.

The dissonance for me came after the scene with the image of the girls naked in a suite with two of them in softcore lesbian porn. If you like that type of thing, I understand but it seems too tonally different from the scene before it and it feels to me very off. I understand if you don't see it that way but a part of me sees the dissonance as something that just adds to the shows problems
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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renegade7 said:
First, I may as well lay my prejudices out on the table here, I'm rather anti-fanservice, mostly for the reasons. It's unnecessary to the plot, it disengages me from the story, and it cheapens the experience by making the developers think they can do that instead of real quality or character development. That doesn't mean that I'm opposed to sexuality on the whole, because it absolutely can be a good narrative and character development device. But let's try to use an ounce of discretion, please.

If I want spank material, I will look up spank material. There is an abundance of stuff out there that's much better than a few animated T&A shots. If you want to make spank material, then by all means, do so, but don't try to pass it off as anything other than that.

Moving on:

I get that it's a spine implant thing.

Look, I've read about spinal surgeries. Sure, it's never pleasant, but that's something entirely apart from the scene as it was described here. If we're taking this to be science fiction, that is, in the future, we should not expect a surgical procedure as delicate as interfacing a computer with your spinal cord to be that horrendous and brutish.

Of course, maybe there was to be some plot development, like her suffering was a metaphorical sacrifice or trial, or that there are supposed to be hints that maybe there is some moral ambiguity on the part of the organization she is enlisting with. If that was the case, I MIGHT buy it. But I don't.

It's not that I'm unwilling to suspend my disbelief. Given that I have a background in physics and engineering, I would not be able to even watch sci-fi if I was unable to do that. But there is a difference between plot devices (magic, warp drives, time travel, etc) and contrivances. Saying that an operation will be painful and bloody is one thing if there is some narrative justification for it: Warhammer 40,000's character backstories pull this off all the time without serious trouble. Using a contrived plot explanation as an excuse to have what, for all intents and purposes, looked like a rape scene, is not only something that takes me out of the story, it's also really kind of fucked up.

Okay, fine, maybe I'll just suspend a little more disbelief and go with the argument that it just LOOKED like a rape scene but was sincerely meant to be a depiction of some kind of surgery. Well...why? If they're performing an operation on her, why no anesthetic? The spinal cord is an extremely delicate organ, even small damage can cause permanent disability: why did the people installing the spine thing have to be forceful and violent about it? Why, after this whole ordeal, did she seem to be just fine about the whole thing? Just in general, if the justification is that it's a surgery, a delicate, highly ordered procedure, why did it have to look anything like a rape scene?



DarkhoIlow said:
that thing was necessary to build up her character and toughen her up as a soldier

Nostras are the lowest of the low and are treated as such. It wasn't anal rape..the boss of that facility that trains the soldiers did the necessary thing by taking her virginity to build her into an hard soldier..they don't have time for flowery princesses in the military.
See above what I wrote about contrivances. That attempt at an explanation in particular makes it worse, not better, because it's suggesting that raping someone is "building character" and that violently "taking her virginity" will cause her to feel some sort of obligation to her boss, or that being "the lowest of the low" makes one deserving of being raped. That takes it away from "tasteless sex scene" to full-on male power fantasy.
Just a note, spinal implants were mentioned nowhere in the first episode so I have no idea where people keep getting that. Also, wouldn't you want neurological signals near the brain like the base of the neck and not the very lower eighth of the spine?

Other than that, your post is very agreeable. The framing of both the panties and ass in the moments before the scene makes it hard to see it as anything but torture porn. If they wanted an operation, why not an overhead view looking from above or a shot of Ange's face.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Izanagi009 said:
Dreiko said:
It seems this is only partially h-anime therefore it has enough robots and dragons too, justifying a portrayal of those elements of the show in this light. It's not the first time two genres combine for a new result.

Izanagi009 said:
Candidus said:
Just dropping by to say that I'm liking this one so far!

If I have one complaint it's that the scene everyone's crying about was too brief. Not since Sekai de Ichiban has there been a decent all-girl torture/ryona anime, and in this respect Cross Ange isn't answering the call either. It's a shame. Ideally this scene would have been the start of episode 2 and it would have been protracted.

What appears to be non-con molestation in the preview is promising, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to peter out as the mecha and dragon-slaying kicks in. Pity, that.

Edit: I guess I shouldn't be greedy. The last Vanquished Queens special wasn't that long ago.
Wait, time out. You wanted the poorly framed, extremely exploitative and highly dissonant scene to have been longer?

I already made my complaints about it and I can't begin to comprehend what you are saying. I suppose you and I look for different things but there has to be better shows for what you want and I still question what you are saying

Yeah see, this is the level of judgement that all those reviews reek from. It's like, crystallized pre-deployed judgement of super high purity aimed at anyone who seems to have a different opinion. It was what I was talking about when I explained that the attitude permeating these kinds of posts reeks of "if you like this, you're a horrible person" thus making them failures as anything more than outraged whining.


You or the stuff you are able understand aren't the default for humanity. There's no "normal person" that you represent and then all the other freaks. Everyone's different and normalcy is an illusion. You're acting as though something must be wrong here because you can't understand something. No dude, it's perfectly right for there to be many many things beyond your understanding. You're only human. Start acting like it XD.
I will admit that I should have retracted the rhetoric and toned it down but why should I not try to understand? From a critical perspective, the scene fails in a lot of ways and ultimately seems too poorly executed to have the impact that Sunrise probably wanted. Anime is not like real life; what a person puts on screen has a purpose or reason for being on screen and framed the way it is. If a normal scene fails in its purpose, most people would call it out so why not here.

I will however retract my statement in light of Candidus informing me and while I highly disagree with him, I can see his point of view and we ultimately had different ideas on what the show was meant to be.

I still stand by my assertion that the show is too flawed given both the scene and the other stuff around it to make me want to continue watching but I suppose I need to tone down the rhetoric

Edit: while I suppose the introduction of ecchi elements could make it partially an h-anime, I stand by the assertion that the advertisement and prominence of cast make it hard to see it as anything but a mass market anime.

It's all in the tone, really. It was less "Hey, this is cool, tell me more!" and more "How DARE YOU, human scum, show me why you like this thing in a way that I deem acceptable or perish from my sight this instance!", know what I mean?


If you wanna educate yourself and understand other people, awesome. Don't be pompous about how you ask for information and don't do it from a moral outrage post though. Don't ask to be educated from upon a tower of correctness that you expect the one educating you (and in so doing, doing you a favor) to climb.


All in all, you seem to understand, so this is good~
 

VectorSlip

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So I just watched the episode in question and I don't actually see what most of the problem is.

The beginning is great. Gundam's vs Magic dragons. Huge guns and fire everywhere. Whats not to like. Then Angelise and her position in the world. How she see's it and how the world works is established. The Norma prejuidce is well laid out as something pretty much normal and something to be celebrated. You want to talk about tonal dissonance? Talk about angelise saying that outright exterminating a group of people will maintain peace while keeping a straight face.

The reveal of her being a norma is also handled really well. Her brother's ambitions are revealed, her denial and her society's rejection of her, all well done. It went to show how even someone who you've potentially been the closest of comardes with for years is willing to outright abandon you if you're declared a norma. It really showed just how deep this society's prejudice runs and that was great.

Then we get to the island with the controversial scene. All I have to say about that is that I don't understand where a negative reaction intense enough to say that the entirety of the show isn't worth watching and that the whole episode is retroactively ruined because of it, is coming from. The entire scene from the moment she got onto the island was intense. her denial about herself and her mother's death, her desperate pleas to be recognized as part of the royalty and hold on to the last few items that represent that. Her being forcible stripped and chained down, her absolute powerlessness. All leading up to the examination (which from my perspective looked just a physical). And even if it was more than just an examination or just a regular physical that moment was pretty much representative of the complete destruction of who she thought she was. That was where that moment and scene derived its power from.

Yes there was a 3 second ass shot. So what. That didn't at all take away from the scene, at least for me. And that was because there was simply so much more going on in that scene that, even though I didn't like her or how she treated the normas, I didn't want her to be violated. I was praying for some last second of mercy from the doctor. But that never came. And ultimately the scene was better for it.

As for the dissonance you detected with the end credits scene, I have to ask. Did you watch the whole thing or even the intro? Because its pretty obvious that scene with the lesbians in the suite is meant to be a sharp contrast between Ange's newfound state of powerlessness and the suite. Its obvious that the red head girl (whom we see from the intro is going to be on Ange's team) Is the current big dog on campus. She has her own suite and her own harem of women at her disposal. Notice how immediately after we see that suite we see Ange on the floor crying. This is establishing the relationship we are going to see between them (ange and the red head) in future episodes. And the music stays sad the whole way through so I don't see this dissonance you are talking about.

Ultimately I think you were too quick to judge and to harsh. I've never really been into mobile suit anime but this one grabbed me and I plan to watch it in the days to come. I want to see how Ange grows and changes, how her world works and evolves with her and how she is going to handle her new life as a norma. One scene isn't going to change that for me. Especially since I actually consider the scene to actually be particularly well done. Sorry.
 

Akjosch

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Sep 12, 2014
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Candidus said:
To me, it looks like this is a TV broadcast H-anime. You get a couple of these each season, and starved, desperate H-anime viewers come sniffing around to see if their particular fetish is being catered to this time.
I don't think it's a fair assessment of the series so far (well, after all of one episode). If that's an H-anime, then Strip Search [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_Search_%28film%29] is a porno. At least the nudity and brutality in the prison scene in both are used for the same effect.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Aug 22, 2010
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So I have two thoughts based on what I've just read; 1) most people don't object to the content but rather that it was handled with no class, intelligence or subtlety and is generally shit. Fair enough.

2) the writer/s of this were so inept, so fucking clueless they took three magical ideas (lesbians, dragons and mecha) that should combine into some kind of Neapolitan heroin from God's own poppy, and they fucked it up? I think it's time Go Nagai and Milk Morinaga teamed up to show these fuck wits how its done.
 
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Izanagi009 said:
inu-kun said:
It sounds like a shitty anime from the get-go, there's no reason to get angry over it, there will be always shitty shows or books with terrible messages or moments, so just ignore it.

It definitely doesn't impact all anime viewers, and doesn't worth wasting time arguing about it.
As an anime viewer and amateur critic, I find it important to inform people of if something will offend them or just be plain horrible.

This is both
They key word here is amateur. If you want to go professional, look to spend a lot of your own money to get there. If you're content with being a hobbyist then that's okay, too, but ignorance is not a valid point of view; never has, and never will be.

Either way, if you're going to critique a piece of work then you need to do more than just spout off. You need to familiarize yourself with the head writer's other works, you need to have an understanding of several critical theories, and you need to read and watch a LOT more. Read Dostoevsky and Hemingway, understand why they were so popular and influential, and then keep reading from even more authors. Watch Nosferatu, Hammer Horror, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and Twilight; and understand why vampires have changed so much over the years.