Message to all anime viewers(NSFW): Cross Ange Tenshi to Ryu no Rondo

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

Have you ever read "Lord of the Flies?" It's a pretty good book; not too long. I was a sophomore in high school, so 15-16 at the time. It's about a bunch of boys from various walks of life who get stranded on a remote island and are forced to survive. The name of the book comes from Beelzebub, the son of Lucifer/Satan, so it's pretty heavy on symbolism.

At one point, around the early 100s, there is a scene where some of the boys have made spears and gone hunting for food. They come across a wild boar, a female, and one of the pages uses only pronouns and no proper nouns. It reads perfectly like a gang rape as the boys surround her and point her with their pointy sticks.

Now I haven't seen an episode of Cross Ange yet, but I'm willing to bet you're too shocked by what you thought was transpiring on the screen to properly grasp the subtext of what the writers and animators were saying.

 

[QuicklyAcross]

The point is this isn't the first nor will it be the last. It's just "one more heavy fanservice show". Nothing to go defcon 5 over. There's been multiple actual rape scenes one could masturbate to in multiple great anime. Ever watch Ninja Scroll? Berserk?

Don't make a big deal out of nothing.

Fanservice is fine, I will defend Kill La Kill as a good show but this is tasteless

NO, she does not get a spinal implant inserted(ignoring the fact that doing an implant at that area is very difficult and not practical) It was a physical

NO, it had too many scenes hanging on the ass and panties to make it anything but a pointless scene

NO, any thematic importance of it being a prison is erased with the credit scene of the other girls naked in a well decorated suite with two of them in a lesbian scene.

NO, rape is not meant to be wank material but something that serves a narrative purpose. You want wank material, just look for porn.

Cross Ange is trash of the highest level, and the polish in the animation only makes it worse.

Then don't watch it. It's obviously not meant to appeal to you.

I really don't see what's so hard about that.

Normally, with something like Infinite Stratos or Queen's Blade, for all it's fanservice, there is something redeeming about it.

This show just dives right into the 9th circle of hell and somehow finds a new 10th circle. It's not a matter of appealing to me or not, this is a matter of very bad writing and tastelessness.

That doesn't change my response. It's not for you. Don't watch it. Simple as that.

What possible audience is ther for this show? I can't see it at all.

Not you obviously and anyone with the same opinions are probably in the minority group and even if theyre not the studio and animators themselves probably wont change anything despite any form of "boycott" or much less a thread on escapist

 

[Starbird]

Oh boy.... I wounder how would Elfin Lied's First 10 Minutes get interpreted now. Oh well will just keep my eye on this one cause I got enough animes this season.

EDIT: Ok I started the show(its on CR) and well I found out its by Sunrise them pulling something questionable in one of the episodes is not beyond them. I mean you don't have to look that far to see Valvere the liberator about one year ago HAD A FUCKING RAPE SCENE. So yeah I am not surprised but digging this mecha design. So yeah guys nothing beyound WTF Japan and people who don't get it whining again about something that they should be used to by now or just not watch..

WTF Japan is not an excuse for me or many other people. Japan is not some abnormality in culture; the way it treats rape is almost the same as America does which is to say "you better be damn careful not to be tasteless". Also, if Sunrise has done this before, WHY WOULD THEY DO IT AGAIN, ITS GOING TO BACKFIRE.

A few more points

-Why go through the rectum to operate on the spine? There are several inches between the rectum and the very tip of the spine and that's not taking into account the twisting nature of the lower intestine and the thickness of the intestine wall. Also, why the lower spine? If you want good neurological signals, the back of the neck or the brain are better signal receiving areas.

-Why is there a scene of naked women fondling each other after the credits? I know that being stuck what is essentially a prison with other women around you will lead to circumstances but why did it have to be on screen? Is it to show how society has changed like in Brave New World or Shin Sekai Yori because I am very doubtful of that.

-What is so intrinsic to women that only they are norma? Is it the extra x chromosome because that would imply recessive traits which would be eliminated by now given how long these programs have probably been going.

-Why would the brother mate with his own sister? History has shown that repeated intermixing of family members like this leads to deformities and also make it easy for the families to die off. If it's just for "i'm evil", then there are better ways of doing it than sodding inbreeding.

This show is not worth making excuses, it's just tasteless. it's spiteful and hateful and deserves to be in the garbage.

The point is this isn't the first nor will it be the last. It's just "one more heavy fanservice show". Nothing to go defcon 5 over. There's been multiple actual rape scenes one could masturbate to in multiple great anime. Ever watch Ninja Scroll? Berserk?

Don't make a big deal out of nothing.

Fanservice is fine, I will defend Kill La Kill as a good show but this is tasteless

NO, she does not get a spinal implant inserted(ignoring the fact that doing an implant at that area is very difficult and not practical) It was a physical

NO, it had too many scenes hanging on the ass and panties to make it anything but a pointless scene

NO, any thematic importance of it being a prison is erased with the credit scene of the other girls naked in a well decorated suite with two of them in a lesbian scene.

NO, rape is not meant to be wank material but something that serves a narrative purpose. You want wank material, just look for porn.

Cross Ange is trash of the highest level, and the polish in the animation only makes it worse.

I'm honestly lost OP. Are you saying that the 'rape' itself shouldn't be shown? Or that it's done in a tasteless way?

Tons of series, both western and Japanese have done stuff like this. Berserk is a good example that keeps on coming up. I'll throw Gantz in there too (the first manga series was brilliant). They were no holds barred extreme content - but a lot of it was done (at least to my mind) in a way that was supposed to both arouse - and then disgust/shock. This was a really big thing in Gantz and brilliantly done.

Rape and erotica can be powerful tools when done well - not just for shock or squick value, but something to move the plot along.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Oh boy.... I wounder how would Elfin Lied's First 10 Minutes get interpreted now. Oh well will just keep my eye on this one cause I got enough animes this season.

EDIT: Ok I started the show(its on CR) and well I found out its by Sunrise them pulling something questionable in one of the episodes is not beyond them. I mean you don't have to look that far to see Valvere the liberator about one year ago HAD A FUCKING RAPE SCENE. So yeah I am not surprised but digging this mecha design. So yeah guys nothing beyound WTF Japan and people who don't get it whining again about something that they should be used to by now or just not watch..

WTF Japan is not an excuse for me or many other people. Japan is not some abnormality in culture; the way it treats rape is almost the same as America does which is to say "you better be damn careful not to be tasteless". Also, if Sunrise has done this before, WHY WOULD THEY DO IT AGAIN, ITS GOING TO BACKFIRE.

A few more points

-Why go through the rectum to operate on the spine? There are several inches between the rectum and the very tip of the spine and that's not taking into account the twisting nature of the lower intestine and the thickness of the intestine wall. Also, why the lower spine? If you want good neurological signals, the back of the neck or the brain are better signal receiving areas.

-Why is there a scene of naked women fondling each other after the credits? I know that being stuck what is essentially a prison with other women around you will lead to circumstances but why did it have to be on screen? Is it to show how society has changed like in Brave New World or Shin Sekai Yori because I am very doubtful of that.

-What is so intrinsic to women that only they are norma? Is it the extra x chromosome because that would imply recessive traits which would be eliminated by now given how long these programs have probably been going.

-Why would the brother mate with his own sister? History has shown that repeated intermixing of family members like this leads to deformities and also make it easy for the families to die off. If it's just for "i'm evil", then there are better ways of doing it than sodding inbreeding.

This show is not worth making excuses, it's just tasteless. it's spiteful and hateful and deserves to be in the garbage.

The point is this isn't the first nor will it be the last. It's just "one more heavy fanservice show". Nothing to go defcon 5 over. There's been multiple actual rape scenes one could masturbate to in multiple great anime. Ever watch Ninja Scroll? Berserk?

Don't make a big deal out of nothing.

Fanservice is fine, I will defend Kill La Kill as a good show but this is tasteless

NO, she does not get a spinal implant inserted(ignoring the fact that doing an implant at that area is very difficult and not practical) It was a physical

NO, it had too many scenes hanging on the ass and panties to make it anything but a pointless scene

NO, any thematic importance of it being a prison is erased with the credit scene of the other girls naked in a well decorated suite with two of them in a lesbian scene.

NO, rape is not meant to be wank material but something that serves a narrative purpose. You want wank material, just look for porn.

Cross Ange is trash of the highest level, and the polish in the animation only makes it worse.

I'm honestly lost OP. Are you saying that the 'rape' itself shouldn't be shown? Or that it's done in a tasteless way?

Tons of series, both western and Japanese have done stuff like this. Berserk is a good example that keeps on coming up. I'll throw Gantz in there too (the first manga series was brilliant). They were no holds barred extreme content - but a lot of it was done (at least to my mind) in a way that was supposed to both arouse - and then disgust/shock. This was a really big thing in Gantz and brilliantly done.

Rape and erotica can be powerful tools when done well - not just for shock or squick value, but something to move the plot along.

My issue is with how tasteless it is.

The framing of the ass makes it very hard for me to see the scene as anything but explotative. so that is my main beef

 

[Verzin]

Such overreaction is the norm these days, it seems. maybe it is that bad idk. haven't seen it myself. sounds like YOU haven't either.

What was your 'message' to anime viewers again? There didn't seem to be one in your original post.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Such overreaction is the norm these days, it seems. maybe it is that bad idk. haven't seen it myself. sounds like YOU haven't either.

What was your 'message' to anime viewers again? There didn't seem to be one in your original post.

the message was to avoid the show and I have actually seen the show's first episode and my reactions are here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.862274-Reaction-to-Cross-Ange-episode-1#21474239]

to say i'm dissatisfied is an understatement

 

[Cronenberg1]

The point is this isn't the first nor will it be the last. It's just "one more heavy fanservice show". Nothing to go defcon 5 over. There's been multiple actual rape scenes one could masturbate to in multiple great anime. Ever watch Ninja Scroll? Berserk?

Don't make a big deal out of nothing.

A "rape scene you can masturbate to" is never ok. I don't care what medium or genre you're working in. Maybe the rest of the anime is good but that doesn't mean that a sexy rape scene should exist in anything ever.

Here's the thing, the point I'm making isn't "sexy rape scenes are awesome!" but rather "the anime can still be awesome DESPITE having a sexy rape scene".


Stop talking about this scene as though it has the power to single-handedly define an anime as good or bad. That's all. I'm not saying anything more than that.

Ok I can understand that. There are games and movies with questionable content that I like as well. I think that the show should be criticized for having those themes, but I have nothing against people who enjoy it for other reasons. If the show is good but has some flaws then I think that it's worth it to critique those flaws in hopes that other shows don't make the same mistakes.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Can I got out on a limb and suggest not condemning a show on the first episode or two? I mean, this is the kind of attitude that would condemn Haibanei Renmei based on a first episode due to scenes up there with torture porn. I'm not saying you're wrong (I haven't watched the show) but I do think something should be given time to move beyond its setup before being called garbage. Anime in particular rarely impresses me until mid season.

 

[MailOrderClone]

I'm honestly more offended by how godawful the plot of this series is than anything else. The first episode was a case of multiple characters, up to and including the entire population of a country, passing around the proverbial idiot ball in order to facilitate getting this girl onto an island of scantily clad warrior women who are also super mecha pilots. The sodomy is what's getting people's attention, but there are shows that have made that work in the past. This series just plain is not cut from the same cloth.

 

[Hochmeister]

Just watched this without any foreknowledge and What. The. F*ck?! Just when I think nothing in anime can disgust me anymore. While disturbing, it's not the scene itself that bothers me, but the scene in context of the rest of the episode. The previous 20 minutes were chock full of titillation and fetishized the hell out of the women in the show. Fine, I can enjoy ecchi. Then that scene comes up, and taken in context of the previous 20 minutes it's softcore rape porn. I do not enjoy rape porn. If the scene had come up without the show already sexualizing the crap out of the characters, and/or if it had been less sexualized itself I could have actually enjoyed it as a serious representation of the crap the Norms get put through and an important character defining moment for the princess. Since it was after 20 minutes of ecchi crud and animated in a way to get people off, I did not.

Does that mean stuff like this should be censored? No. And if someone else enjoys this, it's none of my business either. But the thing is that I want Sunrise to make anime that I can enjoy, and the rapeyness by far overshadows the stuff that I did like (the action and dystopia). All I wanted was a nice, simple show about giant robots beating the crap out of dragons, maybe with some politics too. Is that too much to ask Japan?

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

Just watched this without any foreknowledge and What. The. F*ck?! Just when I think nothing in anime can disgust me anymore. While disturbing, it's not the scene itself that bothers me, but the scene in context of the rest of the episode. The previous 20 minutes were chock full of titillation and fetishized the hell out of the women in the show. Fine, I can enjoy ecchi. Then that scene comes up, and taken in context of the previous 20 minutes it's softcore rape porn. I do not enjoy rape porn. If the scene had come up without the show already sexualizing the crap out of the characters, and/or if it had been less sexualized itself I could have actually enjoyed it as a serious representation of the crap the Norms get put through and an important character defining moment for the princess. Since it was after 20 minutes of ecchi crud and animated in a way to get people off, I did not.

Does that mean stuff like this should be censored? No. And if someone else enjoys this, it's none of my business either. But the thing is that I want Sunrise to make anime that I can enjoy, and the rapeyness by far overshadows the stuff that I did like (the action and dystopia). All I wanted was a nice, simple show about giant robots beating the crap out of dragons, maybe with some politics too. Is that too much to ask Japan?

That seems reasonable.

Attack on Titan, Eureka Seven, Code Geass, Most of Go Nagai's work should be your speed then.

 

[Shanahanapp]

Would I not be correct in thinking that rape fetishes are among the most common of fetishes? If it is an ecchi show meant to just be enjoyed on a semi-sexual level then aren't they just throwing in a common fetish? I mean it's not my thing and it'd definitely put me off the series but it's not the greatest evil of all time. I mean I assume there're plenty of loli ecchi shows and stuff like that. If you're saying "This has really made me not want to watch the series" that makes sense but if you're saying "This series is wrong and harmful and no one should watch it" that's kinda everyone's choice to make for themselves.

 

[Kaimax]

Is that too much to ask Japan?

WEll, This is just one of Sunrise's anime this season,and it's more of their bastard child...

Sunrise is actually making 3 mecha anime this season
-Cross Ange
-Gundam Build Fighters TRY, if you want something light and filled with awesome competitive battles.
-Gundam: G no Reconquista, Directed by Tomino himself and it's made to look like an old anime.

 

[BX3]

Huh. Interesting.

Well, I'm normally not at all into the mecha anime, so I was gonna give this a pass, but if it's doing something that's got people up in arms, I might check it out. Hope this isn't one of those things where the controversy is deliberately used to mask an otherwise boring show.

 

[Tony2077]

Huh. Interesting.

Well, I'm normally not at all into the mecha anime, so I was gonna give this a pass, but if it's doing something that's got people up in arms, I might check it out. Hope this isn't one of those things where the controversy is deliberately used to mask an otherwise boring show.

who knows there is only one episode so far

 

[Zakarath]

Oh, so its a lame, tasteless ecchi show? Toss it on the mountain of those and move on. What's the big deal here?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The point is this isn't the first nor will it be the last. It's just "one more heavy fanservice show". Nothing to go defcon 5 over. There's been multiple actual rape scenes one could masturbate to in multiple great anime. Ever watch Ninja Scroll? Berserk?

Don't make a big deal out of nothing.

A "rape scene you can masturbate to" is never ok. I don't care what medium or genre you're working in. Maybe the rest of the anime is good but that doesn't mean that a sexy rape scene should exist in anything ever.

Here's the thing, the point I'm making isn't "sexy rape scenes are awesome!" but rather "the anime can still be awesome DESPITE having a sexy rape scene".


Stop talking about this scene as though it has the power to single-handedly define an anime as good or bad. That's all. I'm not saying anything more than that.

Ok I can understand that. There are games and movies with questionable content that I like as well. I think that the show should be criticized for having those themes, but I have nothing against people who enjoy it for other reasons. If the show is good but has some flaws then I think that it's worth it to critique those flaws in hopes that other shows don't make the same mistakes.

Any and all critique is meaningless when what prefaces it is "this is horrible and you're horrible if you like this cause it has this scene in it". I hope you can realize that. Whenever someone justifies their opinion with a bulk of reasons why you're a terrible person if you disagree, I instinctively refuse to listen to that noise.

If you FIRST do the overall critique and then as an extra reason for your conclusion use this scene, that's fine. This isn't what people do here. They jump in and call it the worst anime ever made (even compared to ACTUAL hentai) and THEN they proceed to back up their prejudged opinion with flimsy excuse-seeming reasons.

Sorry but this isn't honest critique. It's people who have a grudge trying to justify their grudge and mask it in review format.

 

[Solkard]

Anyone feel the same amount of outrage when said protagonist was professing genocidal sentiments for the "Norma" and openly lecturing a mother on why she should discard her baby, that shouldn't be considered human, and replace it with a 'proper' one?

I wouldn't call the final scene rape, more non-consensual rectal examination at a prison facility. Is it the non-consensual part that has you riled up? Would you have felt better had she willingly prostrated herself for the procedure?

Or rather is it a question of if it was necessary to the story? I couldn't say. I could argue there are several reasons with regards to pacing and impact to the story that could justify the scene; it was a quick and effective means of emphasizing the reversal of fortune and the nature of the inhumane treatment the main character had previously been prescribing for the group of people she was suddenly a member of.

There are likely other ways the message could have been conveyed, which the producers weren't clever enough to envision.

Maybe the mistake was that you thought they expected the viewers to 'enjoy' that scene? Perhaps it was intentionally included to shock and disgust you in a way that would be universally understood? You seem plenty shocked and disgusted.

 

[Gigano]

So, it's a dark sci-fi fantasy show with Giant Robots, Dragons, and fetishistic lesbian fanservice?

Meh, I can't imagine anyone ever liking that. Particularly not if it's considered controversial.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Anyone feel the same amount of outrage when said protagonist was professing genocidal sentiments for the "Norma" and openly lecturing a mother on why she should discard her baby, that shouldn't be considered human, and replace it with a 'proper' one?

I wouldn't call the final scene rape, more non-consensual rectal examination at a prison facility. Is it the non-consensual part that has you riled up? Would you have felt better had she willingly prostrated herself for the procedure?

Or rather is it a question of if it was necessary to the story? I couldn't say. I could argue there are several reasons with regards to pacing and impact to the story that could justify the scene; it was a quick and effective means of emphasizing the reversal of fortune and the nature of the inhumane treatment the main character had previously been prescribing for the group of people she was suddenly a member of.

There are likely other ways the message could have been conveyed, which the producers weren't clever enough to envision.

Maybe the mistake was that you thought they expected the viewers to 'enjoy' that scene? Perhaps it was intentionally included to shock and disgust you in a way that would be universally understood? You seem plenty shocked and disgusted.

No that was a pretty hateful statement but the issue with the rape is the dissonance afterwards and the framing before it. Beforehand, we had the camera focus on the panties and then the ass before the act. If you wanted to make the scene horrifying, you would focus on the face since that expresses what a person goes through. Why the slight lingering on the panties and ass is far beyond me but whatever the reason, it's probably not a good one.

Also, why, seconds after the scene, would you have the credits open with a scene of girls in a well-decorated suite, naked and two of them in a softcore lesbian scene? It destroys any mood established in the early scene and make the whole thing inconsistent.

In addition, we already have a conflict like this: the Cooridinator/Natural conflict in Gundam Seed. There, both sides were demonized by the other and both had devils. However, they also had saints on both sides who wanted the fighting to stop. In addition, the coronation machine was probably sabotaged to produced the false norma reading; this revelation will probably undermine any development Ange has.