Michael Atkinson Once Again Dismisses Gamers

[Travan]

I can't even get pissed off over these people anymore. It probably helps that I don't live in Australia and can't do anything about it. Instead, I can only wonder how people can be so afraid and damning of human nature. People enjoy playing games with violence and sexual themes for the same reason people read books and watch movies with them.

Someone needs to make a game that follows the life of an Anglo-Australian convict*, from the nasty, brutal and short life of the London slums, to a swift and unjust conviction, to the brutal sea voyage,to arrival(with possibly a stint at Fremantle Prison), to ekeing out a living in the Outback, bearing witness to the destruction of the aboriginal tribes. If it was respectful to the subject matter, and at the same time kept it believeable,with production values akin to that of Assassin's Creed 2 would Mr.Atkins find it acceptable? Or would he group it with the crassest kind of murder porn?


*I probably have a completely skewed understanding of the history of the Australian penal population, I put this together with info from wikipedia and personal recollections.

 

[TechNoFear]

Yay, Australia becomes more and more horrible of a place to live everyday. I say to you the same thing I've said before. "Democracy only works if there is some safeguard againsts idiots who can block a majority/consensus/unanimous decision/whatever.

In the US the president can veto any bill, via refusing to sign or by 'pocket' veto. Only a 2/3 majority can over-rule the president. [GWB vetoed 12 bills, 4 of which ended up being enacted later.]

I also suggest you read the 'War Powers Act' (which gives the president 60 days use of the armed forces without congessional approval).

I have also failed to understand the Australian system, which is modeled on the Westminster system (and requires similar approval to the US system but minus the presidents veto power). Technically the Governor General could withhold assent to an Australian law but this would not be accepted (and would be challenged).

 

[traceur_]

Hmm.
It's funny, really: I'm torn with this guy.

Let me explain. I worked at an EB Games (The Canadian version of Gamestop), and watched parent after parent buy M rated games for their young kids. 8 years old kids walking out holding Grand Theft Auto. That's not right. Flat out, straight up: Not right. Even Rockstar would tell you that their games aren't made with younger kids in mind (In fact, I think I saw that on a recent Escapist article). I totally get where is guy is coming from. And, for the most part, I agree with him.

But then there is the sacrifice of these gaming 'freedoms' for what he might consider a 'greater good'. No R18+ games because they would be hilariously easy for kids to get a hold of. The debate is, of course, whether or not these games would actually bring some measure of 'harm' to young children. My thoughts? I don't know, I'm not an expert.

But I do agree with his concern for people crying out, essentially, for extreme violence and sex.
Doesn't that seem odd to anyone else?

I can't say/decide either way, so I'll remain apathetic about it all (It helps that I'm not Australian).
But I really do see where he's coming from. Whether it right or not...? I'll leave that alone.

I agree, though I'm mostly on Atkinson's side about this, the censoring doesn't subtract from the gameplay, story or graphics so it doesn't affect the game.

Kids playing violent games aren't likely to start chopping people up, but they are very likely to become desensitised to violence after a while, ie thinking that blowing some dude's head up in full HD is cool, and can have an affect on the child's future opinions regarding laws about violence.

Also because I'm really vindictive towards people who ***** about the government and I just want to punch people that say my country is some sort of Nazi fascist country just because it doesn't have an R18+ game rating.

 

[Demonraiser]

Hmm.
It's funny, really: I'm torn with this guy.

Let me explain. I worked at an EB Games (The Canadian version of Gamestop), and watched parent after parent buy M rated games for their young kids. 8 years old kids walking out holding Grand Theft Auto. That's not right. Flat out, straight up: Not right. Even Rockstar would tell you that their games aren't made with younger kids in mind (In fact, I think I saw that on a recent Escapist article). I totally get where is guy is coming from. And, for the most part, I agree with him.

But then there is the sacrifice of these gaming 'freedoms' for what he might consider a 'greater good'. No R18+ games because they would be hilariously easy for kids to get a hold of. The debate is, of course, whether or not these games would actually bring some measure of 'harm' to young children. My thoughts? I don't know, I'm not an expert.

But I do agree with his concern for people crying out, essentially, for extreme violence and sex.
Doesn't that seem odd to anyone else?

I can't say/decide either way, so I'll remain apathetic about it all (It helps that I'm not Australian).
But I really do see where he's coming from. Whether it right or not...? I'll leave that alone.

I agree, though I'm mostly on Atkinson's side about this, the censoring doesn't subtract from the gameplay, story or graphics so it doesn't affect the game.

Kids playing violent games aren't likely to start chopping people up, but they are very likely to become desensitised to violence after a while, ie thinking that blowing some dude's head up in full HD is cool, and can have an affect on the child's future opinions regarding laws about violence.

Also because I'm really vindictive towards people who ***** about the government and I just want to punch people that say my country is some sort of Nazi fascist country just because it doesn't have an R18+ game rating.

The fact that you're assuming they will be desensitized to violence if the rating is suddenly added is bullshit. What about Movies? What about Music? What about TV? Are they desensitized to the point already that they can't identify whats a game or whats put in as a safeguard for the public? For christs sake, Give Children some credit. Just because the government says that children are retards until they turn the magical age of 18, doesn't mean its true.

OT: This Atkinson guy is a prick

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

Wow. I love this guy. It is true as proven in the US that ratings do not work. People just buy their kids whatever they want and everyone thinks that kids have the right to play whatever. So no, parents do not take care of their kids. They just give them whatever they want to shut them up.
Basically it comes down to this. It is the law. Shut up and deal with it or leave.
You do not see pedos or other criminals trying to state the laws are stupid. (well except for stoners but who gives a feth what they think.)

(Of course it helps that I am in New Zealand. A sane country where ratings exist and are enforced as well as such things can be. Plus this is amusing as hell.)

That's a piss poor way of seeing any sort of situation, "Shut up a deal with it! There's nothing you can do! You're powerless, you're all worthless!"

Yes, there is something we, or at least they, the Australians, can do. I have no idea how Australian politics work, but maybe they can veto him off of vote for another general or whatever the hell they can do. But the absolute worst thing they could possibly do is to give in a be a bunch of sheep.

Basically, there are two ways we can be rid of Mr Atkinson. The first is for the voters of Croydon (The seat he holds) to vote him out. As you cannot hold a position in the government without a seat, the state government would be required to elect another Attorney-General. However, this probably won't happen anytime soon however, as the seat of Croydon is the third safest seat in the state, needing a 26.1% swing against him for him to lose his seat (Souce here: Link [http://www.ecsa.sa.gov.au/archive/2006/pdf/Results_and_Outcomes_Booklet3.pdf] (Note: It is a rather lengthy .pdf). The other way, of course is if the Labor Party lose the next election.

 

[traceur_]

Hmm.
It's funny, really: I'm torn with this guy.

Let me explain. I worked at an EB Games (The Canadian version of Gamestop), and watched parent after parent buy M rated games for their young kids. 8 years old kids walking out holding Grand Theft Auto. That's not right. Flat out, straight up: Not right. Even Rockstar would tell you that their games aren't made with younger kids in mind (In fact, I think I saw that on a recent Escapist article). I totally get where is guy is coming from. And, for the most part, I agree with him.

But then there is the sacrifice of these gaming 'freedoms' for what he might consider a 'greater good'. No R18+ games because they would be hilariously easy for kids to get a hold of. The debate is, of course, whether or not these games would actually bring some measure of 'harm' to young children. My thoughts? I don't know, I'm not an expert.

But I do agree with his concern for people crying out, essentially, for extreme violence and sex.
Doesn't that seem odd to anyone else?

I can't say/decide either way, so I'll remain apathetic about it all (It helps that I'm not Australian).
But I really do see where he's coming from. Whether it right or not...? I'll leave that alone.

I agree, though I'm mostly on Atkinson's side about this, the censoring doesn't subtract from the gameplay, story or graphics so it doesn't affect the game.

Kids playing violent games aren't likely to start chopping people up, but they are very likely to become desensitised to violence after a while, ie thinking that blowing some dude's head up in full HD is cool, and can have an affect on the child's future opinions regarding laws about violence.

Also because I'm really vindictive towards people who ***** about the government and I just want to punch people that say my country is some sort of Nazi fascist country just because it doesn't have an R18+ game rating.

The fact that you're assuming they will be desensitized to violence if the rating is suddenly added is bullshit. What about Movies? What about Music? What about TV? Are they desensitized to the point already that they can't identify whats a game or whats put in as a safeguard for the public? For christs sake, Give Children some credit. Just because the government says that children are retards until they turn the magical age of 18, doesn't mean its true.

OT: This Atkinson guy is a prick

Learn to read. I do not assume that they will be desensitised by adding the rating, I'm saying that a lot of kids already are, and adding more fuel to the fire is very stupid.

 

[AceDiamond]

Learn to read. I do not assume that they will be desensitised by adding the rating, I'm saying that a lot of kids already are, and adding more fuel to the fire is very stupid.

Well in that case I suppose they should think of the children and start banning R18 movies and whatever the TV program equivalent is as well then, hmm? Think the problem will just magically go away? Doesn't work like that.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

So basically his argument boils down to "Parents can't take care of children. Only I can". Why exactly is this man in a position of power?

Oddly enough, positions of power seem to attract sociopaths. What we really should be asking is why Australia let him be in charge of a position of power.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Wow. I love this guy. It is true as proven in the US that ratings do not work. People just buy their kids whatever they want and everyone thinks that kids have the right to play whatever. So no, parents do not take care of their kids. They just give them whatever they want to shut them up.
Basically it comes down to this. It is the law. Shut up and deal with it or leave.
You do not see pedos or other criminals trying to state the laws are stupid. (well except for stoners but who gives a feth what they think.)

(Of course it helps that I am in New Zealand. A sane country where ratings exist and are enforced as well as such things can be. Plus this is amusing as hell.)

Shut the fuck up, retard. This isn't "the law" it's "the word of Atkinson". Australia SHOULD have an R18+ rating but the SOLE REASON WE DON'T is because this shithead thinks he knows better than, not only every other person in Australia, but every other person in the world. When it was pointed out to him that Australia is the only developed western country WITHOUT an R18+ rating for games he scoffed that EVERY OTHER COUNTRY is, and I quote, "Gaderene swine going over a cliff". The overwhelming majority of Australians think we should have an R18+ rating, it makes much more sense for us to have an R18+ rating, but we don't because THIS fuckstick says no. End of story. He even suppressed the release of the goddamn discussion paper on the topic because he wasn't prepared to even let the issue be debated. The man is a fucking disgrace to democracy, so don't you DARE defend him!

 

[BenzSmoke]

This man's ignorance is astounding.

 

[Blatherscythe]

Personally... Fuck him and Jack Tompson. Two ignorant men with nothing better to do than blame youth violence on videogames.

 

[Dioxide20]

He looks old, wait for him to die, spit on his grave and place copies of Grand Theft Auto on his grave.

You know, because as soon as he leaves office, Australian "R18+ Nerds" will get their game rating. Any smart politician will include it in their campaign to get the votes and get into office.

 

[Greasemoicockneypalm]

Guys, you were doing just fine before violent games came out, get the fuck over it. What do you want out of games, nightmare simulators?

 

[Greasemoicockneypalm]

So basically his argument boils down to "Parents can't take care of children. Only I can". Why exactly is this man in a position of power?

Oddly enough, positions of power seem to attract sociopaths. What we really should be asking is why Australia let him be in charge of a position of power.

Pretty sure he's just some old guy with grandkids who are turning into little violent shits. Sociopath? And some other **** said he'd spit on his grave?

The fuck is wrong you all?

 

[traceur_]

Learn to read. I do not assume that they will be desensitised by adding the rating, I'm saying that a lot of kids already are, and adding more fuel to the fire is very stupid.

Well in that case I suppose they should think of the children and start banning R18 movies and whatever the TV program equivalent is as well then, hmm? Think the problem will just magically go away? Doesn't work like that.

Okay, are you just stupid or are you really determined to miss the point?

I don't think it will go away, nor did I ever say that. The problem exists, adding this rating will increase it, therefore, adding this rating will increase the problem, which is bad, in case you didn't pick that up.

Denying the rating stops the problem from increasing, which is good.

 

[Superior Mind]

Michael Atkinson, what a fucking tool. Way to not have even the most basic understanding of modern culture. Not only that but the guy would be likely to stick his fingers in his ears and sing "Mary had a little lamb" if anyone ever tried to explain it to him. The fool is yet to realise that he's a representative, he's meant to work in the interests of the Australian people not his own closed-minded view of what's right and wrong.

I've been meaning to write him a long letter for a while now but I'm leaving tomorrow for a month or so, I'll have to get onto it when I get back.

@ Traceur - kids who are underage already get their hands on 18+ games, in fact as Yahtzee noted in a review ages ago it's the young kids who are generaly drawn to the OTT gore and violence of games like "Manhunt". What you're doing with a R18 rating is giving criteria for games that are to be sold only to those who are 18+ which is bloody important given the ACB is literally chocking on their own contradictions, (for example banning the Riot Squad zombies in L4D2 because "shootin' cops is bad mmmkay" yet allowing people to shoot full human cops during acts of crime in games like GTA4 or Saints Row 2.) In terms of "making it worse/better with the under 18 kids playing violent games - I'm afraid to say that it's up to the parents of such kids to monitor what their kids are playing. Always. No amount of government regulation or lack thereof is going to change that anyway.

 

[traceur_]

Learn to read. I do not assume that they will be desensitised by adding the rating, I'm saying that a lot of kids already are, and adding more fuel to the fire is very stupid.

Well in that case I suppose they should think of the children and start banning R18 movies and whatever the TV program equivalent is as well then, hmm? Think the problem will just magically go away? Doesn't work like that.

Okay, are you just stupid or are you really determined to miss the point?

I don't think it will go away, nor did I ever say that. The problem exists, adding this rating will increase it, therefore, adding this rating will increase the problem, which is bad, in case you didn't pick that up.

Denying the rating stops the problem from increasing, which is good.

 

[Rhythm]

Just out of curiosity, what is he like as a politician in general? Completely disregarding his stance on gaming, what are his other policies like? I don't live in Australia so I have no knowledge about this chap.

Is it just his stance on gaming that's upsetting people or does he have other controversial policies as well? Or is he perhaps a really good politician with a dislike for gaming?