Michael Atkinson Once Again Dismisses Gamers

Cousin_IT

New member
Feb 6, 2008
1,822
0
0
Zing89 said:
Cousin_IT said:
In a way, he is also right that if this was a real issue to people, & not just gaming nerds being angry because they can (& always) find something to be angry about, surely they could organize & challenge him in the political arena; which even if they don't beat him would force him to defend his position on a more equal footing than currently.
http://www.gamers4croydon.org/home
http://www.gamers4croydon.org/members
See, it would be nice to see stuff like that come up now & then in the news section (or anywhere for that matter). I had no idea there was any real attempt at political organization to challenge Atkinson. Certainly, the rebuttal letter posted with the latest news bulletin on that site is more articulate & well argued than anything I've read on this site regarding Atkinson & his obstinance.

But alas, thats the problem with being a Brit who is relying on an American website for news about Australia. Now that Jack Thompson has fallen off the radar, Atkinson has become games journalism's (in all its amateurish, tabloid imitating glory) new figure for them to periodically say "looks like that clown is at it again. Lets all laugh at the clown" before moving on to more important things like "zomg mario & luigi beat up a cabbie, how ironic!"

Thanks for the link.
 

MercurySteam

Tastes Like Chicken!
Legacy
Apr 11, 2008
4,950
2
43
What right does he have to say we can't play R18+ games? It's our money, our country, our decision and our own free goddamn will. This would all work out if our government gave a toss when the Attorney General is taking the piss.

Our legal system is FUBAR.
 

TikiShades

New member
May 6, 2009
535
0
0
I'll be honest and say he makes some good points. My problem is: It isn't his choice to make. If it happens that a child gets a hold of one of the games, it isn't your fault. I'm not too educated in Australia's censorship, but seeing as how the internet is a mighty force, an Australian can get a hold of the games anyway. You might make it harder to get, but really, you're just delaying the spread of the game.
 

o_O

New member
Jul 19, 2009
195
0
0
...This guy better be working on abolishing the R rating for movies (or equivalent in Ausrtailia). Otherwise he should have his entrails cut out and burned before him for hypocrisy of the highest order.

Everything he has said about how video game ratings work can be directly applied to movies too. And I'd bet my freaking soul (or what is left of it) that he has enjoyed a few of those kind of movies.

...Wonder how well *that* campaign would go. Oh yeah, abso-fucking-lutely nowhere at all. Interesting, that.

(Wow, I'm surprised at how much indignant rage that article brought out of me; and I'm not even Austrailian! :eek:)

Addendum: This idiot seems to be confusing the wanted R18+ with the ESRB equivalent of AO. They want M, moron.
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
9,831
0
0
Doc Theta Sigma said:
So basically his argument boils down to "Parents can't take care of children. Only I can". Why exactly is this man in a position of power?
Because he's a politician and politicians in general are retards who love themselves, each other, and power. That's all.

Seriously, Australia needs to get rid of him. The US disbarred Jack Thompson. Keith Vaz here in the UK was ridiculed by fellow MPs in the middle of a freaking Lords debate over his anti-gaming stance. Why are the Australians giving Atkinson a platform? He's an idiot, simple as. There are all sorts of features on consoles and games to give parents control over what games their kids play and if they had a Mature rating for games then kids wouldn't be able to buy them anyway, unless they got an adult to buy them for them, and that risk is inherent with everything rated, not just games. If he takes this stance then logically he should also be campaigning against smoking, drinking, porn, and everything else that is classified as Adults Only.
 

TitsMcGee1804

New member
Dec 24, 2008
244
0
0
what an idiot...'you dont need violence to enjoy a game' well, no...but if you want to play a game where you kill things then it would be pretty detrimental to the experience if there was no violence

maybe he should instead look at himself, and how they can protect the youngsters with things like, registering consoles when purchased underage, or educating parents, instead of just taking the easy way out by just banning the content to anyone, regardless of how mature they are

thank god i live in UK
 

Scylla6

New member
Nov 17, 2009
41
0
0
As Benjamin Franklin once said; "He who sacrifices essential Liberty for temporary Safety, deserves neither safety nor liberty."
 

AndyFromMonday

New member
Feb 5, 2009
3,921
0
0
"Saying in a letter written to a constituent that parents cannot prevent their children from playing adult videogames in the home"


Step 1: Get a lock.

Step 2: Put the lock on a cabinet

Step 3: Lock the cabinet

In 3 easy steps you can prevent small children from playing with violent video games

Easier version:

Step 1: Find a tall wardrobe

Step 2: Put games on tall Wardrobe

Yep, you totally cannot prevent children from playing violent video games.
 

Zing

New member
Oct 22, 2009
2,069
0
0
Honestly what pisses me off is that he actually called gamers who disagree with his position "nerds". Can you get any more offensive or stupid? Might as well just run to any Australian home and start calling people who are using their Xbox or Playstation nerds.
 

DayDark

New member
Oct 31, 2007
657
0
0
God it infuriates me that this man gets to decide what's entertainment and what's not. The world can be cruel, and some times games need real world elements to tell a story, games are an art form, not just some play thing.

Take zombie apocalypse for example, why do you fear zombies?

because they eat you and turn you into a one of them!

That's why zombie games and movies are gory!


How does it look like when a soldier is blown to pieces?

It looks messy, and is a natural consequence of standing to close to explosives.

Therefore to realistically portray an extreme story, we need Extreme gore!

What does it look like when you saw a creature in two with a fucking chainsaw?

It's messy and needs a messy portrayal.

WW2 wasn't kindergarden.

Medieval sword fighting isn't like fighting with pillows.
 

can't-think

New member
Aug 31, 2009
72
0
0
CD-R said:
can said:
There is a gaming party running against him, but he's held the seat for years and a lot of the community probably believe him and all of the anti-gaming news stories that are around at the moment. Also a lot of older people won't see the issue as a big deal.
Ok there ya go. What's there website, who is the candidate that's running against him? Can we get any photos of Atkinson with a prostitute to start a big ass smear campaign against him? Can we photoshop some and do it anyway? These are questions people need to ask.
Website is: http://www.gamers4croydon.org/
 

slowpoke999

New member
Sep 17, 2009
802
0
0
I hate conservative fucks like him, I wouldn't mind conservatives but they have such a stubborn attitude of wanting to make everyone like them, seriously if people stopped intervening in other peoples lives and kept their policies to themselves the world would be a much better place.

"WE GOTTA KILL THOSE TERRORIST THEY BE THREATENING UR FREEDOM, oh also every home will know need government owned security cams in them, why oppose?you aren't doing anything illegal are you?"

Conservatives are the kind of people who read (the rhymes with dead one) 1984 three times, for tips.
 

DayDark

New member
Oct 31, 2007
657
0
0
can said:
Website is: http://www.gamers4croydon.org/
Here's what they have to say about the letter.

link: http://www.gamers4croydon.org/news/athoughtfulrebuttal

By Chris Prior

In response to The Hon Michael Atkinson's form letter on R18+ for games.

Mr Atkinson's claims that there are other Attorneys-General supporting his position cannot be verified until they announce themselves (which has not happened so far). He is a senior minister in a state and country founded on the principles of representative and accountable government. If it is indeed the case and he is shielding other AGs from public scrutiny, he is undermining one of the very basic principles of our democracy: that the people know what their representatives are doing. Oddly, elsewhere in the same letter, Mr Atkinson claims to be "the one minister and member on SCAG who has stood against" an R18+ classification for games, a statement which directly contradicts his earlier claim of support from other Attorneys-General.

He says that he is "baffled and worried about why proponents of R.18+ games are putting up their hands and saying 'Give us more cruel sex and extreme violence!'" This is a shamelessly emotive statement, and a classic straw man. While that may be what a tiny minority of people are saying, the majority of R18+ supporters merely wish to be allowed the same level of freedom as people who are allowed to watch R-rated films. Concurrently, there is a desire to prevent that same adult content from being accessed by minors.

Mr Atkinson refers to a number of games, suggesting that they would be allowed into Australia if an R18+ classification was introduced. He describes incentives for the use of illegal drugs, as well as a game concerned with the rape of a mother and daughter. In making these suggestions, he is either ignorant of, or wilfully ignoring the section of the classification guidelines which clearly states that "material that contains drug use and sexual violence related to incentives or rewards is Refused Classification". If this is from ignorance then perhaps he should not be making decisions on a system he does not understand, while deception suggests he is more concerned with his prejudices against games than reality. The violence he describes as being present in some games refused classification can be found in any number of MA15+ titles, accessible to minors. The introduction of an R18+ classification would not allow the sexual violence and drug abuse content he described into the country and would make it more difficult for minors to access violent content.

The discussion paper mentioned at the outset has been in the works for some time. Contrary to Mr. Atkinson's claims, he has been a major impediment to its release(1), insisting on the inclusion of images of content he claims would be allowable under and R18+ classification. Given his erroneous claims about allowable content within an R18+ classification, it would follow that these 'examples' would be equally dubious.

He raises concerns that, due to the widespread popularity of gaming, it would be difficult to prevent children from accessing R18+ games that their parents or older siblings had purchased. He claims this is not a problem faced by R18+ films, ignoring (again, either wilfully or through ignorance) that the massive popularity of DVDs means that films are equally accessible in the home. The regulation of this, however, is not the government's responsibility, but that of parents. All three current generation consoles have parental controls that, if used properly, are significantly more difficult to bypass (if even possible) than it would be for a child to download an illegal version of an adult game. The same is true of recent home computer operating systems, where all have password protection capabilities to stop unauthorised use, and failing that, all have power cords that would easily prevent unsupervised use if removed.

Claiming that the infringement on adult freedom of choice is acceptable if it keeps the most extreme content off the shelves is problematic on a number of levels, the first of which being that 'the most extreme content' would still be kept off shelves with R18+ for games. The slightly less extreme content would be harder for children to access. As for the infringement being 'acceptable', that really isn't his call. His job is to represent the people his decisions affect. A newer version of the Bond University study quoted by Mr Atkinson in his letter stated that roughly 90% of people were in favour of an R18+ classification for games, and to ignore that is anything but representative.

Talking further on the "trifling" impact on consumer choice of the lack of an R rating, he says that only a handful of games are RC, which must mean there is very little impact. What he doesn't mention is that the overwhelming majority of games rated suitable for 15 year olds in Australia are rated higher elsewhere in the world. Over 90% of games classified MA15+ between June and November '09 were rated 17+ in the US. All but one was rated either 16+ or 18+ in Europe. The "trifling" impact is that games intended for adults - recognised as such internationally - are available to Australian children. This is a failing of a classification system that says - first and foremost - that "adults should be able to read, hear and see what they want", while not providing an appropriate classification for that content.

The claim that exposure to violent media is harmful, and more-so when that media is interactive is not by any means accepted as fact amongst the scientific community. For every study that finds video games cause violence, others find that there is no such link. The studies that have found causal links have received significant peer criticism of their methods, which have gone so far as ignoring the evidence gathered to come to a seemingly predetermined conclusion(2). Similarly, there is no reliable evidence that interactivity increases the impact of media. Regardless, given that interactivity is explicitly taken into account in the classification guidelines, an R18+ game and R18+ film should have the same 'impact'.

It is true that edits can be made to prevent a game from being refused classification. But this usually means games are slightly edited and made available to teenagers. When Fallout 3 was edited to be allowed an MA rating, the edited version was distributed worldwide. Still, it was rated 17+ or 18+ in the US, Europe and New Zealand. Contrary to Mr Atkinson's claims, the solution to this problem is to introduce an R18+ classification for games. It would provide an appropriate rating for adult-oriented games, while providing a clearer warning about the nature of the game to parents who might otherwise buy an unsuitable game for their child. While he is correct in saying the Classification Board must follow the guidelines provided by law, it is not something that can be done: the current system contradicts itself, and so the board must decide which directive to follow. The only solution to this is to amend the guidelines and remove the contradiction.

Mr Atkinson suggests that if you ask "an adult" how they feel about playing video games, they will "give you ... opinion only." Putting aside that the asked question was in fact about opinion, the implied meaning is that gamers are incapable of examining how games affect them. I, as "an adult" have a range of experiences with games of varied genres. The violent games Mr Atkinson so reviles help me reduce stress and express frustration, just as some people hit a boxing bag or go for a run. While this has not been empirically studied in me personally, studies have discovered such a response among those who play video games(3).

On the surface, the desensitizing effect seen in the Comfortably Numb study seems worrying. However the study fails to address the difference between immediate and lasting impact. It shows only a short-term acclimatisation to violence, and any claims of long-term desensitisation based on the results of this study are unfounded speculation.

What Mr Atkinson's letter demonstrates is little more than that he has a prejudice against violent video games. Much of the 'evidence' he provides to support his claim is dubious or patently false, and it shows a much greater interest in distracting people with emotive arguments than thoughtful consideration of available information. While he is of course entitled to dislike violence in video games (and any other media for that matter), his personal distaste is not sufficient reason to curtail the rights of responsible adults, expose minors to adult content, and ignore the opinions of an overwhelming majority of Australians.

He is, after all, supposed to be a representative.


1
http://au.gamespot.com/news/6200308.html

2
http://www.asanet.org/galleries/default-file/Winter07ContextsFeature.pdf , Media Violence and Its Effect on Aggression: Assessing the ScientificEvidence

3
http://www.ecu.edu/news/newsstory.cfm?ID=1344
 

Dudemeister

New member
Feb 24, 2008
1,227
0
0
parents cannot prevent their children from playing adult videogames in the home
Well then why can people buy 18 rated films?
If parents can't do a thing to stop their children playing 18 rated games, surely they can't stop them watching their 18+ DVD's ?
 

Viva_Hate

New member
Oct 22, 2009
6
0
0
"If adult gamers are so keen to have R18+ games, I expect children would be just as keen,"

I work as a projectionist... On several occasions we've been requested from our advertising partners to program 'MA' rated game ads on features of ratings lower than 'MA' We aren't allowed to screen 'MA' rated trailers on anything rated lower than an 'MA' feature. Most recently we were asked to place an "Uncharted 2" ad on the beginning of "This Is It" rated 'G'.
In questioning the appropriateness of this practice... We were told that there is no policy against doing so and so there's nothing "wrong" with it.

Simply put, if they so serious of keeping games of an adult nature from children. Perhaps not advertising them on films and times slots viewable by children would be a good place to start. When was the last time you saw an 'MA' or 'R' rated film advertised on somewhere kids would see it and subsequently want to see it?

Stop treating games as though they are the play things of children alone... Bring the Ratings System in line with other forms of media. I don't know of many parents who would allow a child to see or buy an 'R' rated film for a child. Instead of censoring and banning games. Why not educate parents and especially grandparents on the fact that games aren't just children's toys anymore. Hell even use that as the slogan. "Video Games they aren't just child's play". Sounds like a government approved PSA to me...
 

Little Duck

Diving Space Muffin
Oct 22, 2009
860
0
0
He's looking at a worse case senario.

I'm assuming Australia is allowed 18 movies yes? In that instance, the ONLY parents who would buy 18 games are the ones who also let their kids watch 18 films. Every single child is not going to run out and flunk laws to get 18 games, only more liberal parents.