Microgravity Makes Interstellar Travel Impossible, Say Experts

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I think the main problem is getting a spaceship that's large enough to be self-sustaining. Just think of how many scientists it would take to have enough natural relationships to create multiple generations of genetically dynamic offspring. Because I bet half of the guys you'll need just to get it out of the atmosphere aren't going to get laid very often.

 

[oldtaku]

If only there were a way you could just go into hibernation then wake up at the end. But if there were, we would surely have seen it in at least one sci-movie. You could call it... Cryo... nap? Or something like that?


Yes, I know the working tech doesn't exist yet, but it's a lot further ahead than most of the other tech for interstellar travel they're assuming.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

Seriously, guys? Can't you give the ship a little spin and use the centripetal force to keep them under gravity?

 

[HappyCastor]

Um, by spinning a room, can't you create a sort of fake gravity? What's it called? Centripetal force? I'm pretty sure that can solve the problems with pregnancy and muscle mass.

 

[Venats]

Generation ships and countering to microgravity are possible, have always been possible, but are expensive. The biggest issue of any space faring vessel, especially one that would leave out protective helio-magneto sphere, is the bombardment by all sorts of radiation that would kill everything. The rest, actually is quite 'easy' to counter given the resources and size. Gravity can be simulated by use of the fake centripetal force, done easily by just rotating the ship's body at a high enough speed to simulate the appropriate g-forces. As for the former, that also takes into the account the latter, the best method so far advocated is the asteroid ship method wherein you:

- Dig out much of the inside to form a nice cylindrical inner sanctum, leave the outside thick enough to deter impact and serve as a natural barrier through which radiation would have to tunnel.
- Create an artificial magneto-field to simulate the one our planet and sun have by properly allocated electric currents through what is likely a heavily metallic body (the asteroid's).
- Build your stuff inside, you'd also have a large amount of native resources from the asteroid's hollowing and shell; engines on the 'back' and the sides for maintaining the following.
- Get the asteroid spinning at the appropriate speed along the long axis of the cylinder.

That's it, generation ship and off you go. Biggest issue you'd have after that is the fact that you'd get washed by external magnetic and electric fields from nearby things that would royally screw with any silicon-resistor technology.

 

[spartan231490]

Microgravity Makes Interstellar Travel Impossible, Say Experts

Tiny feet can't pitter-patter in zero-G.

Over time, microgravity does lots of nasty things to organic life systems; it forces muscles to atrophy, weakens bones, impairs vision and lowers blood volume, amongst other things. According to a recent symposium on interstellar travel, these physiological changes mean that the creation of space-babies in zero-g is more or less impossible, effectively ruling out any multi-generational space journeys until science masters artificial gravity. Given that a trip to even our nearest star would take hundreds of years, this problem represents a significant hurdle.

At their last meeting, experts from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) these cosy love suits [http://www.space.com/13135-100-year-starship-symposium-darpa-nasa.html]). Sadly, the next stage is where things take a turn for the worse: The effects of microgravity on a developing foetus are thought to be severe, ranging from brittle bones to circulatory problems and underdeveloped internal organs. There's also the matter of bringing your little bundle of space-joy into the world (or, well, ship).

"Giving birth in zero gravity is going to be hell because gravity helps you [on Earth]," said Athena Andreadis, a biologist from the University of Massachusetts Medical School. "You rely on the weight of the baby."

"The distances to the stars are vast. Large starships will have to be self-sustainable. We don't have such technology yet," continued Andreadis. "We will have to grow up and do self-directed evolution, realizing that what comes out of the other end may not be human. If we stake our future among the stars, we must change for the journey and the destination."

All of this means that we're not going anywhere, perhaps not even Mars, until we master either artificial gravity or some seriously speedy travel methods. Although this news won't come as a surprise to anybody who's put serious thought into interstellar travel, it is humbling to be reminded of these things from time to time. Humans are perfectly adjusted for life on Earth; as Andreadis noted, we'll have to adapt to both the journey and the destination if we're ever to leave.



Source: LiveScience [http://www.livescience.com/16348-space-sex-interstellar-travel-challenges.html]






Permalink

Two problems:
1) recent experiments have shown that faster-than-light travel may not be impossible.
2) we can't create artificial gravity fields, but if we use rotation and centrifugal force we can imitate it. If we push it just a little over normal gravity, say about 1.25, you could likely avoid the negative effects(I say go over because it isn't gravity, it's just kinda close, so you would likely need to overcompensate)

 

[Torrasque]

I shall handle this with the grace and civility that I handle all things that crush my delusions.

*Sticks fingers in ears.*

La la la la I can't hear you, Experts. I'm not listening!

lol, pretty much what I'm doing right now.

OP: So as soon as they can manufacture gravity, that'll solve a whole bunch of problems.
I thought that wasn't a big deal though? Surely a spinning object in space can create some kind of force similar to gravity.
Its just a matter of finding that optimum amount of spinning that creates the optimum amount of gravity.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

What the experts know is constantly being proven wrong by other experts down the road. So I guess what I'm saying is, "we'll just see about that".

yup this, all it takes is one creative mind down the road to prove everything wrong.

and that's only using spaceships we have developed so far, i'm sure sooner or later we will generate some kind of self rotating centrifugal force ship that generates gravity in the ship just fine.

hell we probably won't even need to do that, there is probably some bio/chem way where we could take a daily shot that tightens up our dna at it's very core to prevent destabilization amongst our muscles and bones.

 

[HappyCastor]

For all you people ranting on about centripetal and centrifugal forces, (centripetal is the correct one :L) - I'm guessing the scientists will have considered that on the basis that they are scientists and you are mere internet nerds.

You are trying to disprove something that can be replicated by spinning around in a circle.



Nice try, but these scientists were obviously so engrossed in their attempts to downplay the boyhood dreams of "internet nerds" that they forgot something that is blatantly obvious.

 

[Treblaine]

You could create an artificial gravity ship fairly easily by having it rotate. The downside of course is that the habitats would have to be built on the edges of the rotation, cutting valuable space down dramatically.

Still though, even if we did make a spaceship that was able to produce artificial gravity, we would still have to develop the technology to make it self sustainable.

Think outside the box, I don't know why the "spinning donut" is so popular surely I'm not the only one to have come up with the "rope trick"

basically two ships lasso each other to spin around a centre of gravity mid way between the high tension cable. You wouldn't need a constant rocket motor, just a boost to start rotating, and the weight carried by the cable and fixing would only be as much as the ship would weight to be suspended on Earth.

Could make it easier and have everything at half rotation, half earth's gravity.

The great thing about this is with a long enough rope you can have quite a slow rotation/min yet a large ship can have more or less the same "deceleration" (fake gravity) on the "top" of the spaceship as the "bottom".

Then when the ships need to land they just disconnect and could land on the surface keeping orientation down. (obviously, unless they have ridiculously powerful engines it lands on a planet and stays there)

The favourite thing I like about this design is you have two ships that are inherently separated, the engine of one ship could blow up catastrophically and the other would be very likely to survive needing only moderate repairs. They act as each others life boats. So they could soldier on the rest of the way in microgravity, though this would be most useful for a colonisation of Mars.

 

[Something Amyss]

Seriously...do scientist just make shit up just to piss off sci fi fans? cause i think they do.

I think they do. There's a very good chance we have troll scientists.

second. it's only impossible with our current understanding of physics.

Obviously, but what else would you base the possibility of something on?

 

[Cpu46]

Besides, there are no spare part stores or gas stations in space.

Granted you only really need fuel for acceleration and deceleration, the middle is just coasting through space with virtually no resistance to slow the ship down. The spare parts would be horrible though, knowing that the nearest resupply is however many light years away.

OT: I kind of guessed that when I researched astronauts and read about what effects extended periods in zero gravity had on bodies. It was at about that time that I deduced that the perfect space faring race would be intelligent oxygen breathing octopi and squid since they have little to no skeletal structure and the tentacles would be perfect for moving about in zero gravity... I was a rather odd child.

Spoiler: Also, relevant to topic

[sub]note: Video maker is a youtube atheist so it does reference religion once or twice, still a great video though[/sub]​

 

[aashell13]

the headline is basically a lie. neither of the source articles said that interstellar travel is impossible, just that the technology doesn't exist yet and that zero-g would pose interesting physiological problems.

As for saying we can't get to mars...
...
seriously. there are interesting engineering challenges, sure, but nothing insurmountable. the problem is a lack of funding, not unsolved technical issues or a lack of fundamental science.

come on escapist, you can do way better than this.

 

[Jegsimmons]

Seriously...do scientist just make shit up just to piss off sci fi fans? cause i think they do.

I think they do. There's a very good chance we have troll scientists.

second. it's only impossible with our current understanding of physics.

Obviously, but what else would you base the possibility of something on?

the will to do bat-shit insane stuff in your backyard...like a redneck mythbuster/dude what would happen


actually i think the difference between stupid is science, is that in science you actually take time to predict the risks but do it anyway...so it's kinda more stupid.

 

[Princess Rose]

In space, no one can get a C-section.

All his other complaints may be perfectly valid, but science has had a method to circumvent the "giving birth through birth canal" concept for years and years.

Since ancient Greece, if I recall properly.

Also... while floating in fluid in the uterus, isn't the fetus effectively weightless anyway? Like a person is effectively weightless while under water? So why would the mother being weightless have an effect on the fetus?

You know what - easy way to test this. The next time someone goes up to the International Space Station, someone take some recently impregnated rats. Or a pig or something if you want an animal closer to human physiology. A monkey maybe even.

Keep it there for the entire pregnancy and see what happens. Boom - question answered.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

Well, I say we can! All we need is science and imagination!
Who do they think we are? I'll show those "experts", I'll punch gravity right in the face!

On a more serious note, its that kind of thinking that makes us reach or "limit".

 

[Akytalusia]

Obviously, but what else would you base the possibility of something on?

i never would. the possibility of anything is an incalculable factor based on the limitations of our scope of knowledge. you should never rule out possibilities which consider all information within and well beyond our scope.

probabilities on the other hand, are what these people and generaly most people are refering to when they speak of possibilities. probability considers only our scope of knowledge and can much more accuractly approximate the likelyhood of an event in the present or near future, though not the distant future, which leads into the realm of possibility.