Microgravity Makes Interstellar Travel Impossible, Say Experts

[Nieroshai]

For all you people ranting on about centripetal and centrifugal forces, (centripetal is the correct one :L) - I'm guessing the scientists will have considered that on the basis that they are scientists and you are mere internet nerds.

You are trying to disprove something that can be replicated by spinning around in a circle.



Nice try, but these scientists were obviously so engrossed in their attempts to downplay the boyhood dreams of "internet nerds" that they forgot something that is blatantly obvious.

Obviously. You sir are clearly the most clever man on the planet give yourself a big pat on the back. But don't sit on your laurels for too long, I'm putting you in charge of Humanities new interstellar travel project. I expect the finished design report on my desk tomorrow. Shouldn't be hard for a chap who's brain power clearly surpasses that of the entirety of MENSA combined.

AAAND we can put down the measuring tapes lads, the penis size contest has moved to the politics forum.

I jest, but I have been waiting a WHILE to say that somewhere on here.

On topic, they do neglect to mention that centripetal force does simulate gravity by creating a directional force, and that gravity is basically a downward force, and that all that is necessary for this problem not to exist is for there to be a downward force. If it sounds like I'm repeating myself, it's because the internet has a tendency to think I stutter. Unless there is such thing as a gravity particle and it is what is necessary instead of simply downward force, then yes making the craft spin will do nothing since the particles are still not as concentrated as they wouldd be on Earth. But from what I read, gravitons are still a theory. It isn't as though scientists are magically incapable of missing the big picture or fine details either, remember back when the scientific community actually lent credibility to the cold fusion experiments?

TL;DR: the question is whether gravity can be simulated. I posit that it can, as gravity is basically downward force.

 

[FortheLegion]

Just make artificial gravity! Easy! Centrifugal force! Create a spinning portion of the ship and have your crew live in that.

 

[ACman]

For all you people ranting on about centripetal and centrifugal forces, (centripetal is the correct one :L) - I'm guessing the scientists will have considered that on the basis that they are scientists and you are mere internet nerds.

They actually related. The centripetal force is the one that forces the body to rotate. Force is towards the centre of rotation

The centrifugal force is the one that you'd feel as gravity. Force is away from the centre of rotation.

 

[pearcinator]

Quit worrying about travel and invent the goddamn teleporter! IT IS ALL WE NEED!!! Don't overcomplicate things by thinking about travel times and shit cos travelling is lame.

Invent the teleporter and all these problems don't exist anymore because we have INSTA-TRAVEL!

I'm sure if can be done, even if it is controversial (e.g. destroyed at one end and recreated at the other like Sheldon explained in the Big Bang Theory). We won't even need to move faster than the speed of light (even though it's plausible now hurr hurr hurr).

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Why would we bother sending squishy sacks of mostly water into space? Upload brain to computer, put computer into robot (or connect wirelessly) there ya go. Let the meatbags stay on earth. Maybe not in my lifetime, or my children's lifetime but somwhere down the line we will give up our bodies or we will go extinct, there really isn't any other long term option.

 

[bomblord]

Counteracting microgravity? Easy,make space suits with powerful natural magnets on the joints hands and feet. Line the ship with metal plates. It wouldn't be perfect but get the right balance and you'de be fine. Actually probably put metal in the suits and make magnetic plates it would be easier to control balance strength of the pull

You could generate extra electricity through ships rotation using magnets and copper and artificial gravity.

the only real problem is funding

 

[Venats]

Why would we bother sending squishy sacks of mostly water into space? Upload brain to computer, put computer into robot (or connect wirelessly) there ya go. Let the meatbags stay on earth. Maybe not in my lifetime, or my children's lifetime but somwhere down the line we will give up our bodies or we will go extinct, there really isn't any other long term option.

Meatbags: not affected by slues of electromagnetic fields that will be washing over you and penetrating every inch of your craft.
Complex machines: greatly affected (the more complex, the higher the danger) by slues of electromagnetic fields that will be washing over you and penetrating every inch of your craft. And no, a Faraday cage will not work, and no you cannot block this with a simple resonance mesh. Look up: Why the sun is going to eventually give all modern technology the middle finger, and be glad your body is made of carbon.

Meatbags are better than the alternative...

 

[Jiefu]

Well, logically we have to start working on moving Mars around the galaxy as our mobile space base. Planets are easy to move, right?

 

[RA92]

Well, logically we have to start working on moving Mars around the galaxy as our mobile space base. Planets are easy to move, right?

Yeah, I mean, just use volcanic eruptions as thrusters.

Heh heh.

 

[roman gnome]

For all you people ranting on about centripetal and centrifugal forces, (centripetal is the correct one :L) - I'm guessing the scientists will have considered that on the basis that they are scientists and you are mere internet nerds.

Actually, the scientists never said it made interstellar travel impossible. The headline is an exaggeration by one of us mere internet nerds.

 

[averydeeadaccount]

this is just silly.
thanks till a little thing called relativity long-distance space flights will take minutes, even to destinations hundreds of light years away.
when travelling near the speed of light, a voyage that is hundreds of stationary years can be as close to instant as you can get to light speed for those on board.

 

[Jaegerwolf]

TL;DR: the question is whether gravity can be simulated. I posit that it can, as gravity is basically downward force.

The thing is it really isn't. Remember things like "downward" are relative when it comes to space. Gravity is a force that ATTRACTS objects to each other based on distance and mass. Now centrifugal force can fake gravity's effects in terms of letting us move and orientation, but I do not know of a long term study done to see if it can completely cancel out the side effects of micro-gravity like natural gravity does. We don't know enough about gravity to make that call yet.

I've seen the rope trick once or twice in sci-fi movies (probably some of the old Sci-Fi channel movie of the weeks) and while it might have its advantages to the spinning donut, it also can present a heck of a vulnerable single point of failure. One good sized piece of rock and you're flying off into deep space.

Spinning wheels have their own engineering problems. For one you'll want at least two spinning in opposite directions to cancel out the torque placed on the main body. It's also not going to be very efficient in terms of space.

 

[Aprilgold]

You could create an artificial gravity ship fairly easily by having it rotate. The downside of course is that the habitats would have to be built on the edges of the rotation, cutting valuable space down dramatically.

Still though, even if we did make a spaceship that was able to produce artificial gravity, we would still have to develop the technology to make it self sustainable.

Think outside the box, I don't know why the "spinning donut" is so popular surely I'm not the only one to have come up with the "rope trick"

basically two ships lasso each other to spin around a centre of gravity mid way between the high tension cable. You wouldn't need a constant rocket motor, just a boost to start rotating, and the weight carried by the cable and fixing would only be as much as the ship would weight to be suspended on Earth.

Could make it easier and have everything at half rotation, half earth's gravity.

The great thing about this is with a long enough rope you can have quite a slow rotation/min yet a large ship can have more or less the same "deceleration" (fake gravity) on the "top" of the spaceship as the "bottom".

Then when the ships need to land they just disconnect and could land on the surface keeping orientation down. (obviously, unless they have ridiculously powerful engines it lands on a planet and stays there)

The favourite thing I like about this design is you have two ships that are inherently separated, the engine of one ship could blow up catastrophically and the other would be very likely to survive needing only moderate repairs. They act as each others life boats. So they could soldier on the rest of the way in microgravity, though this would be most useful for a colonisation of Mars.

Only problem would be deep space, the trip back would give adverse affects on you and / or future kids, so it would be pointless, really. Well, I think we just need redesigned space ships, honestly.

 

[theultimateend]

In space, no one can get a C-section.

I can see it now...

"Nurse, float that scalpel towards me."
*Sthick*
"OW MY EYE!"

Okay, don't wanna see that anymore...geez. But really, artificial gravity shouldn't be impossible, either through manual means of rotation, or through another viable means. Like some kind of artificial magnetic field that we haven't exactly invented yet...

The rotation system is the most probable first method and I don't see it being complicated in space either. Since you wouldn't need much power to spin the ship.

Well, logically we have to start working on moving Mars around the galaxy as our mobile space base. Planets are easy to move, right?

Apparently yes. One of the ideas behind keeping Earth habitable when the sun goes super giant is to move it. I don't recall how but there was a plan it was just a matter of time I think.

Quit worrying about travel and invent the goddamn teleporter! IT IS ALL WE NEED!!! Don't overcomplicate things by thinking about travel times and shit cos travelling is lame.

Invent the teleporter and all these problems don't exist anymore because we have INSTA-TRAVEL!

I'm sure if can be done, even if it is controversial (e.g. destroyed at one end and recreated at the other like Sheldon explained in the Big Bang Theory). We won't even need to move faster than the speed of light (even though it's plausible now hurr hurr hurr).

Last I knew there wasn't enough energy in the universe to move something like a human body instantly from one point to another.

 

[chadachada123]

Two things:

1) If we were going to try to travel to another star system, of-fucking-course it's going to have "artificial gravity." The artificial gravity that, well, is the only known kind aside from some mystical unknown force we don't know about, is just centrifugal (centripetal, you guys get the point) force from having the ship rotate. Simple enough. They would obviously be one-way trips lasting generations, too.

2) By the time we have the resources to man a trip to another star system, we'll have likely ditched our weak human bodies in favor of something that takes very little power and also is unaffected by trivial stuff like microgravity. At the very least, the scientists/astronauts we send to another star system will have these ridiculous enhancements so that they don't die and also will require a mere fraction of the energy that a human would require.

 

[John the Gamer]

Spoiler: Here is me hoping we will end up looking like space-dragons.

I'm completely OK with genetic manipulation. It makes sence that we would need it; We're adapted to life on earth, so if we want to live [read: thrive] on distant planets we'll just have to force a change.

We'd need protection against radiation, gravity differences, atmospheric differences, etc. No way us squishy meatbags would be able to do that in out current physical state.

Spoiler: We can, however, always use robots for exploration. They're superior anyways...

Spoiler: Couldn't resist this.

 

[Ghengis John]

Obviously. You sir are clearly the most clever man on the planet give yourself a big pat on the back. But don't sit on your laurels for too long, I'm putting you in charge of Humanities new interstellar travel project. I expect the finished design report on my desk tomorrow. Shouldn't be hard for a chap who's brain power clearly surpasses that of the entirety of MENSA combined.

I might note before you get too deprecating that for a decade many very great minds have been stumped by a question that was solved by internet gamers fairly quickly, I am of course referring to the AIDS structure story from not too long ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14986013

For that matter, I had heard it said when I was in middle school that it was impossible to recycle plastic bags because any attempt to melt them turned them into vapor. I asked the teacher "Why not put them under great pressure so they can't change state into a gas?" She just sort of blinked and was quiet for a moment and then said "That's a very interesting idea." 15 years later a 12 year old gets the patent for doing just that. So I might take a moment to note that even scientists can be guilty of rigid thinking. It isn't a failure of intelligence, but simply of perspective. Don't dismiss the ability of the average person to contribute a worthwhile idea so quickly.

 

[Atomic Skull]

The favourite thing I like about this design is you have two ships that are inherently separated, the engine of one ship could blow up catastrophically and the other would be very likely to survive needing only moderate repairs. They act as each others life boats. So they could soldier on the rest of the way in microgravity, though this would be most useful for a colonisation of Mars.

A nuclear thermal rocket would let you get to mars in about 3 months, electric thrusters powered by a nuclear reactor even less than that.

Problem is, everyone is scared of nuclear power so they keep talking about chemical rockets that will require years to reach their destination.

Chemical rockets are not a practical means to reach mars, let alone the outer planets. If we're going to explore the solar system we have to go nuclear because nuclear fuel has extremely high energy density (yes higher than fusion)

Of course by the time we're ready for this the generation IV high temp fast nuclear reactors that are in the experimental stage right now will have been used for generating power for years. These reactors will be much cleaner and safer. They can't melt down (no control rods, they're designed to just run an unregulated nuclear reaction and if you turn it off it just sits there). They use up most of their fuel and generate only a small amount of waste that lasts for a few decades instead of millions of years. Best of all they can burn up the nuclear waste we have now as fuel.