And here comes the shitstorm. Man, Microsoft is just on a rapid streak eh? Come on, keep em coming, these assholes deserve every single bit of shit that is getting thrown at them.
Microsoft Exec: "If You're Backwards Compatible, You're Really Backwards"
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
I'm not a hardware expert; I am but a fan/enthusiast who likes to jump around tech articles, nevertheless I can say with full confidence:
It's not possible to emulate a 3.2ghz IBM Power thread on a 1.6ghz core* running Intel's x86 arch (licensed by AMD). Period. Full stop. It is completely, absolutely impossible.
[The following graf may only be legible to fellow PC enthusiasts, sorry]
Jaguar is not exactly a Bulldozer/Ivy Bridge class instruction juggling juggernaut; it's far more comparable to current gen ARM or Atom (which is why there are 8 of them in both the PS4 and one). Even if it where powered by the latest and greatest and (literally) hottest either AMD or Intel has to offer, and said CPU was overclocked to 5GHZ and beyond, that still would not be enough to effectively run even "dynamically recompiled" power code at reasonable speeds. Ask anyone who ran legacy software and games on the first Intel powered Macintosh computers.
(*though the core is definitely better than the particular in-order Power Core used in the PS3 and the 360)
Likewise the next xbox is not "emulating" the first xbox (as the PS3 emulated the first Playstation); both the first and the next xbox use Intel's instruction set, and both are running under the Windows kernel (version 5 and 6 respectively) using the Direct3D graphics library (version 8 and 11 respectively). There should be not much more issue running a game published on the first xbox on the one than there is running a game designed for Windows XP 32bit on Windows 8 (kernel 6.2) 64bit. Depending on how "close to metal" a game designed for the first xbox is, getting a game that cannot run as is to work on the One should not require a massive overhaul.
Of course, none of this made Don Mattrick's cute little neologism any less asinine.
Edit: Seriously doubt Mattrick put much more thought into his phrase beyond how clever and cutting it must be, how disarming his terse "one in twenty (as a percentage)" non-statistic must be for those who would passionately disagree. It seems, based on his statements, that MS did not look much deeper into their data: e.g how much overlap there is between xbox and 360 owners or the number of games that are still not playable despite Eric Traut [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Traut] et al's best efforts. They just took the 5% figure and ran with it as a full justification.
It's not possible to emulate a 3.2ghz IBM Power thread on a 1.6ghz core* running Intel's x86 arch (licensed by AMD). Period. Full stop. It is completely, absolutely impossible.
[The following graf may only be legible to fellow PC enthusiasts, sorry]
Jaguar is not exactly a Bulldozer/Ivy Bridge class instruction juggling juggernaut; it's far more comparable to current gen ARM or Atom (which is why there are 8 of them in both the PS4 and one). Even if it where powered by the latest and greatest and (literally) hottest either AMD or Intel has to offer, and said CPU was overclocked to 5GHZ and beyond, that still would not be enough to effectively run even "dynamically recompiled" power code at reasonable speeds. Ask anyone who ran legacy software and games on the first Intel powered Macintosh computers.
(*though the core is definitely better than the particular in-order Power Core used in the PS3 and the 360)
Likewise the next xbox is not "emulating" the first xbox (as the PS3 emulated the first Playstation); both the first and the next xbox use Intel's instruction set, and both are running under the Windows kernel (version 5 and 6 respectively) using the Direct3D graphics library (version 8 and 11 respectively). There should be not much more issue running a game published on the first xbox on the one than there is running a game designed for Windows XP 32bit on Windows 8 (kernel 6.2) 64bit. Depending on how "close to metal" a game designed for the first xbox is, getting a game that cannot run as is to work on the One should not require a massive overhaul.
Of course, none of this made Don Mattrick's cute little neologism any less asinine.
Edit: Seriously doubt Mattrick put much more thought into his phrase beyond how clever and cutting it must be, how disarming his terse "one in twenty (as a percentage)" non-statistic must be for those who would passionately disagree. It seems, based on his statements, that MS did not look much deeper into their data: e.g how much overlap there is between xbox and 360 owners or the number of games that are still not playable despite Eric Traut [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Traut] et al's best efforts. They just took the 5% figure and ran with it as a full justification.
I have a backwards compatible Ps3 and I play more Ps2 games and Ps1 games than Ps3 games. I'm probably that 5% but still no backwards compatibility is a dealbreaker for me no matter what games or features they have. I hate clutter and having 6 systems in my room so if they are telling me to add more clutter they can kindly stick that Xbone and Ps4 where the sun doesn't shine.el_kabong said:
Nah, I mean sideways. #trollfacecricket chirps said:
Yeah, I don't think they'll see more than the usual shooter and sports fans, in terms of audience.
The only good counterpoint I can come up with is that, if they included backwards compatibility, the price of the console would become impractical for most consumers to buy it. I paid $700-800 for my PS3, there weren't many others willing to pay that for the backwards compatibility. I find it understandable that they would drop it to keep the price in a range that would allow more people to buy it.The_Darkness said:
Since the reveal I've played some Fable: Lost Chapters, Whacked (anyone remember that game?) and, Crimson Skies but I had to use my original Xbox because...well I don't think either would work on my 360. I recall some games working but there's some kind of sound distortion I remember happening last time I tried.
When it comes to old games on a new console, I do that a lot with my Wii U but that's mainly because I'm that one person who hasn't beaten Donkey Kong Country Returns or, Mario Galaxies yet. What this really says (to me) is that I should probably not expect the XBone to get compilation discs. What I mean is something like the Kirby Dream Collection: a game disc (or downloadable title) made up of previous games from a franchise.
Now it's back to my Xbox since there's seems to be a new mission based around Chickens somewhere in Albion...or maybe I'll try Otogi again.
When it comes to old games on a new console, I do that a lot with my Wii U but that's mainly because I'm that one person who hasn't beaten Donkey Kong Country Returns or, Mario Galaxies yet. What this really says (to me) is that I should probably not expect the XBone to get compilation discs. What I mean is something like the Kirby Dream Collection: a game disc (or downloadable title) made up of previous games from a franchise.
Now it's back to my Xbox since there's seems to be a new mission based around Chickens somewhere in Albion...or maybe I'll try Otogi again.
That's true - and if they'd used that as their explanation, I'd be happier. It's the sentiment behind the statement that bothers me, rather than the actual decision to not have backwards compatibility. (Let's face it - I have an Xbox 360, I don't need the Xbone to play 360 games.) Microsoft fires off a backhanded comment at people who would have appreciated backwards compatibility, which is what they'll be remembered for, rather than any sensible reasons for not offering it. It's as if they are actively training their PR officers the wrong way...-Dragmire- said:
Later Wii versions dropped gamecube support. But at that point it didn't matter.The_Darkness said:
At least the WiiU can play the few Wii games I liked
Really?? I got the MGS4 80GB Ps3 bundle (full backwards compatibility for Ps2/Ps1) for 499 + tax. That isn't too unreasonable-Dragmire- said:
I completely agree, this has not been the greatest year for PR statements all around so I'm looking at it as par for the course.The_Darkness said:
EDIT:
The Canadian dollar was not on par at the time so we had to deal with inflated prices.GAunderrated said:
THIS is what you have PR departments for.
seriously, though, I wonder what the percentage would be on, say, the Wii, where you can play GameCube titles without any trouble at all.
now THAT, I really appreciated.
seriously, though, I wonder what the percentage would be on, say, the Wii, where you can play GameCube titles without any trouble at all.
now THAT, I really appreciated.
So let's say I've been an avid Sony fan from day one, never once played an XBOX game. Now imagine I've become dis-enfranchised with Sony and am looking for a good reason to upgrade to the new xboxone. If I could suddenly have access to all of those 360 games I had missed over the years I would see that as a huge selling point. Having access to next gen content, and having access to a huge library of excellent 360 titles apparently is not considered a selling point. But let's not forget, the xbox one design is not aimed at delivering great content for consumers but rather on allowing MS to control the used game market. Won't buy it.
I guess im one o fthose five percent since I made a point to get a PSN account and 20 dollars just so I could get P3Fes on PSN, and cause the only reason I even use a wii on my own is to play my GC games.
you know what though, go ahead and dont release any old games remade/mastered for the XBox1 and see how many supporters you lose. Tell me if its only 5%
EDIT: though after how "bad" the reveal went if i was in the company the last thing I would be doing is insulting my audience.
you know what though, go ahead and dont release any old games remade/mastered for the XBox1 and see how many supporters you lose. Tell me if its only 5%
EDIT: though after how "bad" the reveal went if i was in the company the last thing I would be doing is insulting my audience.
Exactly, imagine if other industries were run this way.emeraldrafael said:
Hotel guest: Excuse me sir, could I please have a wake up call for 7am
Hotel employee: What don't you know how to work an alarm clock? There is one in your room. Don't you have a smartphone? Just ask Siri to wake you up. You are such an old-fashioned douche bag, why would you want me to call you on the TELAFONE to wake you up when you have the future of wake-up calls in the palm of your hand?
Hotel Manager: YOU'RE FIRED!!! Please pardon the rudeness of my former employee, can I offer you a free dinner in our restaurant for the anti-customer conduct of my FORMER employee. Did I mention that people deserve to be FIRED for treating customers with disdain. Please don't tell others that you hate my hotel, this is, afterall, a competitive industry and my business can be made or broken on word-of-mouth, grassroots commentary by dis-enfranchised customers such as yourself.
Just sayin'
*sighs* At least PS4 had a kinda reason to not do BC with the CELL architect.
Ya late in the console life no one is really playing the older games, but when you come out with that new console and only a handful of games, Your just telling your customers to go elsewhere when they finish the few games that come out for the system in the launch timeframe.
Ya late in the console life no one is really playing the older games, but when you come out with that new console and only a handful of games, Your just telling your customers to go elsewhere when they finish the few games that come out for the system in the launch timeframe.
This comment will probably fall on deaf ears, but...
PC IS THE WAY TO BE!
I can still play PC games from the 1990's on my "current gen" PC that runs things like GW2, BF3, and so on.
Oh, and why backwards compatibility is important? Look at something like TF2, a game well over 5 years old still being played (and updated) today. If not compatible with the new game systems, the game dies...same for Minecraft. They kill 3rd party games by these restrictions.
PC IS THE WAY TO BE!
I can still play PC games from the 1990's on my "current gen" PC that runs things like GW2, BF3, and so on.
Oh, and why backwards compatibility is important? Look at something like TF2, a game well over 5 years old still being played (and updated) today. If not compatible with the new game systems, the game dies...same for Minecraft. They kill 3rd party games by these restrictions.