Microsoft Sued for Locking Out Third Party Memory Cards

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

I agree with you to an extent, I hate to keep bringing this up but, Microsoft has guidelines to make sure the items a third party company makes meets their standard. Yes Microsoft can't get them shut down or whatever but they could use this to their advantage.

Oh absolutely, and here's where I think Microsoft made a huge mistake. They actually allowed the stuff...from the beginning, and are now taking it away. That's a big, big no-no. A person buys an item, based upon many things, right? What if someone can prove, in court, that such functionality was part of that grand purchase decision? This speaks nothing of people who actually have hundreds of hours of saved games on 3rd party devices already, with no way to access them anymore. I mean...wow, can you imagine not being able to touch the save for a game you put 50+ hours into? I don't own a 360, but, to put it into a scenario I can sympathize with....what would happen if my Gran Turismo 4 save, suffered the same fate? 6,000 days worth of my time. Gone.

As for the companies who made these things, and have been selling them readily along with 360 purchases. Don't you think they base their production, and in some regards product lines upon gaming consoles? Prior to the 360/PS3/Wii, there were only a handful of such entities, now you can't throw a stone without hitting one. Doesn't that smack of unfair business practices?

Either way, great convo, enjoying this thoroughly.

I see your point, Microsoft could have done a better job with this, but it's not like they went to court a-la Nintendo, they did the only thing they could do. They updated their system to work with "official" hardware and this is where I see an advantage for Microsoft, If the company didn't want to follow the guidelines then Microsoft would put a temporary stop to it, if this company wants to continue making cards for the 360 fine, but you have to deal with us AND follow the guidlines. Companies, no matter how big or small, has standards and Microsoft is simply keeping theirs golden. Why lose business because one company doesn't want to follow the rules? Like you said the 360 has holes in the coding and Microsoft simply filled them.
This is a very intriguing conversation, I'm just glad you didn't try to blast me with the whole "You're just being a fanboy" crap.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

I see your point, Microsoft could have done a better job with this, but it's not like they went to court a-la Nintendo, they did the only thing they could do. They updated their system to work with "official" hardware and this is where I see an advantage for Microsoft, If the company didn't want to follow the guidelines then Microsoft would put a temporary stop to it, if this company wants to continue making cards for the 360 fine, but you have to deal with us AND follow the guidlines. Companies, no matter how big or small, has standards and Microsoft is simply keeping theirs golden. Why lose business because one company doesn't want to follow the rules? Like you said the 360 has holes in the coding and Microsoft simply filled them.
This is a very intriguing conversation, I'm just glad you didn't try to blast me with the whole "You're just being a fanboy" crap.

But that's the problem, you see. From the get-go, Microsoft advertised the 360 as having proprietary harddrives. You can't buy them 3rd party, they won't work. But, memory cards? They wait...4 years to ban 3rd party memory cards? I mean, that's a hell of an 'oversight'. And the fact that they allowed it to go for so long, prior to terminating that functionality, may actually hurt them in court. As I said though, I think it's going to come down to a person's right to use their own possessions, in whatever manner they see fit, and when illegal activity is occurring, it's the end-user, not the manufacturer that's responsible.

Should this hold up in court, the only people going to suffer are 360 owners, though. Because they're going to get boned for memory cards, like they are for HDD's. Terrible shame that. Not to mention, if MS keeps restricting hardware functionality on the 360, it's only a matter of time before 3rds stop trying to support the 360 in any way, out of fear that a whole line of products will simply be deemed 'illegal' by MS, overnight.

I don't think third-parties will back off completely but, instead become a little more alert about Microsoft's standards. Yes I do feel for the gamers who has done no wrong to Microsoft but, I'm sure Microsoft will fix the problem.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

I don't think third-parties will back off completely but, instead become a little more alert about Microsoft's standards. Yes I do feel for the gamers who has done no wrong to Microsoft but, I'm sure Microsoft will fix the problem.

If this tactic of proprietary hardware continues by MS, I wouldn't be surprised. It's a hell of a waste of product, to base your monthly production runs off of consumer demand, where the 360 represents a large chunk of that demand. Only to wake up the next morning to find that half of that demand has now been extinguished. Doesn't just affect their overall profit margin. It affects how many workers they need, materials the workers need etc... It's a pretty big deal, with regards to manufacturing costs.

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

 

[ReepNeep]

Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?

With knives?

That Fires Lasers?

And irradiated baseball bats?

No, baseball bats with nails in them. And trashcan lids for shields. In a boxing ring. Escape from New York style.

 

[Danpascooch]

Wow, this is the first justified lawsuit I have heard of in a long time

 

[Danpascooch]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

There are laws prohibiting companies from certain practices, such as predatory pricing that cut competition, the market in the US is not a free for all you know

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

That's just it though, how is a 3rd party vendor to be aware of these things...when Microsoft continues to change their rules? When, it's just cheaper altogether to scrap any affiliation with MS, and make periphery for companies that aren't going to change their minds from day to day.

Ultimately, they ARE blaming the 3rd parties, because really...it's the 3rd parties being immediately impacted by this action. Next up, gamers who have save games on those devices.

Again if you find it to harsh don't work with the company including their hardware.
If Microsoft did nothing and allowed every 3rd party company to make stuff nothing would work right, people love seeing big companies get put out of money, like I said before Microsoft will fix the non working data problem. They have proven in the past that they do care for the consumers.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

There are laws prohibiting companies from certain practices, such as predatory pricing that cut competition, the market in the US is not a free for all you know

Like I said before Microsoft didn't remove competition.

 

[GrandAm]

I'll be interested to find out how this turns out. I'm not sure what copyright and IP law says, but you'd think that since its their own proprietary system that they can decide what works with it and what doesn't. Please correct me if my asumption is way off.

From what I understand copyright only applies to software, books, song lyrics, screenplays, etc. Basically something written. Copyright also expires 150 years the person(s) wrote it dies. The family of the decesed may retain control, but after 150 years it becomes public domain. It absolutely does not apply to anything that is considered hardware.

Patents apply to tangible physical hardware. In the USA any patents won lasts for only twenty years, and cannot be extended unless a new use is found for it.

Flash memory as an invention has been around for decades. I doubt patents apply anymore. The special proprietary plug MS uses isn't patentable as a plug. They would have to prove it has some other previously unknown use like alien spaceship beacon. Or in a practial sense their plug somehow provides a new benifit that somehow can only benifit the xbox360 and no other data transfer system before or lateral to it. If it is just the shape of the plug is different, no actual functional improvement MS may lose. Fighting even though they lose is in their best interest. Because if they can get an injunction from a court to stop that competitor from selling that product till a final decision is made, MS will no doubt have come out with a new console by then. MS can pay a minimal legal fee to keep this in procedural court motions. In other words stall out their competition.

Companies change the shape or design of things to try and hold proprietary control of their product. Sony's memory card is held this way by putting a tradmarked name on it. They call it a "memory stick" (duo). If anyone copies the sony design for market they have to pay sony money if they want the "memory stick" name on it. And they do because if a device requires it and consumer goes out to buy one, that consumer is going to look for it by name.

I'm sure I am not as accurate I seem to sound. It has been a while since I researched this. I did it for a business class essay. I got a B.

 

[Snotnarok]

why doesn't microsoft just buy datel and continue selling memory cards?

Nah, they'll probably just take one apart and copy it, like they did with the computer mouse and Apple.

Actually apple didn't make the mouse, it was Xerox.

Microsoft really bit themselves in the ass with this one, how did they ever think that people wouldn't be pissed off at this?

 

[Vek]

I'm of two minds here. The first is that monopolies are bad (DUR), but the second is that the code might not have been made strictly for anti-competition purposes: but rather, for some anti-piracy reason.

More info is needed as to the reasons behind the inclusion of the code before I can make any judgments on the matter.

Now if Nintendo did it right, then no more homebrew hackers spoiling my Online gaming.

I'm on Microsoft side.

You should know, Nintendo just lost a suit for blocking the use of blank flash SD carts on DS for homebrew development purposes.
http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=38047
Nintendo has previously claimed they locked out the carts by default because of the possibility of loading compiler and DS roms onto such carts for piracy purposes (not that it really stopped people from figuring out how to sue 'em).

But since this is a similar case to the Microsoft mem card issue, it seems that it may set precedent for a decision against Microsoft.

 

[Danpascooch]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

There are laws prohibiting companies from certain practices, such as predatory pricing that cut competition, the market in the US is not a free for all you know

Like I said before Microsoft didn't remove competition.

hmm, lets see, other brands were competing with Microsoft's cards...Microsoft blocked them out from making competing brands that can operate on the 360.

How is that not removing competition?