Microsoft Sued for Locking Out Third Party Memory Cards

Wicky_42

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Sep 15, 2008
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Avykins said:
Okay so before I start I must explain. I personally hate this shit. I do think MS are just being assholes for locking out memory cards and 3rd party harddrives too.
However. The 360 is their property right? So if they want to lock out shit that others are making for their product should they not legally be able to?
Is Datel paying them a percentage for sales of their items which is clearly designed for MS's product?
Basically what I am saying is that datel is making money only because of the 360. Why should they be able to get away with that without at least having to pay something to MS?
Dirty Apple said:
I'll be interested to find out how this turns out. I'm not sure what copyright and IP law says, but you'd think that since its their own proprietary system that they can decide what works with it and what doesn't. Please correct me if my asumption is way off.
Aura Guardian said:
scotth266 said:
I'm of two minds here. The first is that monopolies are bad (DUR), but the second is that the code might not have been made strictly for anti-competition purposes: but rather, for some anti-piracy reason.

More info is needed as to the reasons behind the inclusion of the code before I can make any judgments on the matter.
Now if Nintendo did it right, then no more homebrew hackers spoiling my Online gaming.

I'm on Microsoft side.
MS was sued and lost over including anti-virus and web browsers in its operating system, the argument being that it meant the majority of users never even knew there were alternatives and thus stifling competition. It's been a long-standing tradition on consoles that third-party peripherals and the such like are available and accepted by the market - you don't need a license to put dashboard ornaments in your car or upgrade the tyres just as you shouldn't need a license to produce a better memory card than MS does. With all the cash they have I'm surprised MS hasn't made bigger cards already :/

Do savegames affect online play? I doubt it, and even if a minority of gamers are cheating in their games that's no excuse to hit a rival company - I thought that's what the last wave of bans was for. There's basically not enough of a case here to ban a save game storage unit on grounds that it will prevent cheating, especially as I'm sure that it would mostly affect single-player anyway, and who cases how people play a single-player game?

Basically, if MS can loose by reducing competition through bundling its own software with its own OS, then it can loose by actively attacking a competitor's superior hardware. I don't see any valid defence here.
 

Tharwen

Ep. VI: Return of the turret
May 7, 2009
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Sparrow said:
Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?
Or an epic Modern Warfare team deathmatch!
 

superpoo92

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Sep 10, 2008
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sorry this is off topic but i dont know if this just my xbox being shit but i cant play any of my arcade games unless i'm connected to live which is annoying cause now me and my mates cant play marvel vs capcom, trials etc unless my xbox is in a certin room. Also everytime i want to watch a video i have to watch it on zune which updates everytime i go on it and takes about 2 mins to load.
 

teh_gunslinger

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. did it better.
Dec 6, 2007
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Wofiel said:
teh_gunslinger said:
Yes, but if people want to mess with there own save games I can't see that as a problem. I recently realised that my character in Baldur's Gate had been rolled wrong due to my own stupidity so I took an editor and changed him from one school to another. Hardly a huge issue.
Now it may be that people cheat in their games on 360 but I still can't see the problem. If I wanna cheat I cheat. It's my game after all and my enjoyment. (It should be added that I don't cheat).
Well now with the advent of online play, something not found in your Baldur's Gate example, your savegames are now subject to Xbox Live's Terms of Use, whether on not it actually uses online play.

You may not:
- use or distribute unauthorized cheats, macros, or scripts; or
- exploit a bug, or make an unauthorized modification, to any software or data to gain unfair advantage in a game , contest, or promotion.
Alright. Thanks. As I said, if it had to with XBL it was a different matter. And not having a 360 myself I don't know the terms. Good info.
 

kinky257

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The only real difference between this law suit and their previous one they lost over windows being hard to put competitive programs on is the existence of the DMCA. I wonder if they'll invoke it, stating that it aids and abets piracy by allowing easy interface between computers and Xboxes (I was under the impression that it was pretty easy already?). Also isn't this pretty similar to the Nintendo R4i cart lawsuit? Yet every one was lining up behind Nintendo on that one (though i guess the almost expressed use of the R4i is piracy, where as these ones do at least have some legitimate uses).
 

Robby Foxfur

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Sep 1, 2009
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well I have often wondered if i could use my 2gb San disk in the Xbox 360 slot but i guess the answer is no, that is kinda like bitchin out Microsoft your suppose to allow compaction and have confidence that the stuff you offer is better and thus the competitors won't matter.
 

SMOKEMNHALO2001

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Sep 10, 2008
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hebdomad said:
Well unfortunately I think Microsoft's undead lawyers will win this one. It is their platform after all.

However I think Microsoft should allow for third party accessory's. The lack of competition means lack of innovation for their own platform.
They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first.
That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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teh_gunslinger

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. did it better.
Dec 6, 2007
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Mornelithe said:
I think the question will eventually become, does MS have the right to restrict periphery used during offline play. They can call the multi-player card all they want, but as long as the 360 has SP games, this may be an interesting case for MS to argue. Fact is, for every 1 pirate they 'foil' with this, they're hurting X number of loyal consumers, by rendering their memory sticks useless. Imagine how you'd feel if you suddenly couldn't touch any of your saves...?
You'd better believe I'd be pissed if I couldn't. And honestly I agree that they should keep their hands off when it comes to editing SP games. Noone gets hurt, cheated or anything else by that.
And I can't help thinking that their online system should be able to take care of hax and other cheats, either by software or by patrolling admins. I guess I'm happy with my PC.

Even if I agree that MS have reason to protect online play I don't think that it justifies this move. They are limiting people to use only 'official' gear. That was actually a big reason I bought a PS3 instead. While it's still a bad system it's a lot more open than the 360. Not as awesome as a PC but still...
 

MisterLister

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Nov 14, 2009
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Avykins said:
Okay so before I start I must explain. I personally hate this shit. I do think MS are just being assholes for locking out memory cards and 3rd party harddrives too.
However. The 360 is their property right? So if they want to lock out shit that others are making for their product should they not legally be able to?
Is Datel paying them a percentage for sales of their items which is clearly designed for MS's product?
Basically what I am saying is that datel is making money only because of the 360. Why should they be able to get away with that without at least having to pay something to MS?

Do tire companies have to cut car manufacturers in on their profits? Does every software developer hand over a percentage to MS?

Just because a product is designed to be used with another product doesn't mean the second manufacturer is the slave of the first. Up until the worthless, reprehensible conglomerate of greedy idiots that is MS got into the console business, a plethora of third-party devices existed: gamesharks, codebrakers, action replays, and any number of random memory card brands. When the x-box came out, the death of the cheat devices took place almost overnight. One generation later, even memory cards are manufactured by a select few. What does this amount to? Yeah, maybe there is a little less hacking on the 360 due to their policies, but it is so marginal that it doesn't really matter. The people using such unsophisticated hacking methods are either 12 year-olds with no gaming skills to begin with or people too lazy to work on a harder mod. Nowadays, anyone with the right screwdriver, a free modding guide, and a few hours to burn can do much more disturbing things. The people routinely cheating on xbl will not be discouraged in the least. With the trade-off being that consumers are forced to shell out ridiculous prices to MS in order to get vastly inferior products, I just don't think that the handful of pre-pubescent punks stopped from hacking Halo is worth it.

As far as the EULA and that kind of garbage goes, I politely say "**** you, MS" every time I hit accept. I don't even bother to glace through them anymore. It all amounts to 'Even though you payed exorbitant prices for our products, we can tell you exactly what you will do with them.' After paying $300 for a buggy, poorly made console and the subsequent games, I feel as though I have the right to do whatever I want with it. If I want to take it apart and swallow it piece-by-piece, expel it onto a picture of Bill Gates, and send it first class to the Canadian prime minister, then that is what I will do. If I want to mod my game so that my character is covered in nipples and deals 8000000% damage, so be it. Now, as far as online is concerned, it is up to the people maintaining the servers to keep things fair. On that note, why is it there are fewer obvious cheaters (in my experience) on PS3 versions of multiplayer games as compared to MS versions? The PS3 lets you use any old usb drive to save games, and yet it has not burst into flames and destroyed the entire free-market system.

I realize I am a bit long winded, but any time I see MS, a company so wealthy it could build an island out of gold coins in the south Pacific and still have enough assets left to buy the Northern Hemisphere, taking a step to ensure more revenue, I just lose it. I loathe MS and pray to any god that will listen for someone to put them out of business. They are doing for the gaming industry what Rupert Murdoch did to television, and no one is able or even willing to stop them for the same reasons.

Oh, and I am not a console fanboy of any kind. I know that each console has its strengths and weaknesses, I just hate MS infinitely more than Nintendo or Sony. At least the Japanese have the decency to give us a shiny gimmick or awesome Bluray player while they ream us on the prices.
 

FBPH

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Nov 10, 2009
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Trivun said:
Actually Microsoft reserves a portion of disc space on games so even people without XBL can get the updates.
Yeah and because of the ban waves each year, games released after that wave have a new dashboard update on them that is needed to play. They do that 'cause once an Xbox has been banned, it can't ever be updated again. So they release a new update after every wave and include them in a portion of every game disc following that wave (not immediately after but soon after). Even without XBL, those updates are still put into your system and are MANDATORY to play new game releases.

So yeah, M$ shafted Datel and everyone who had one of the better memory cards with game saves and stuff in 'em.
 

Vierran

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Oct 11, 2009
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I will be hoping for Datel to win, if Microsoft actually released a memory card that was 4g there wouldn't be much of a problem, but they don't.
 

GrimFandango92

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Aug 19, 2009
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bloody hell, MS already stopped allowing the sale or the cards at all the game shop in a 20km radius of me, now i have to get somebosy to buy it from the site AND pay THEM to do so, probably have to explain WHY i 'NEED' it