Missed potential in movies, shows, anime, etc

Thaluikhain

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Eh, I'm not seeing much between Prometheus and Covenant, excepting maybe I recognise more of the actors from the first than the second. Prometheus was pretending to be clever in that it did things you see in clever films sometimes, I guess, and Covenant didn't really bother.

My main problem with both is that the humans seem to be trying to get eaten as stupidly as possible.

I don't mind Alien Resurrection so much, if I squint my brain I can pretend it was just trying to be a mindless action film and it succeeds reasonable well at that. A lot of really stupid people in that one, of course.
 
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Hawki

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David is introduced in the third scene in the film, and then there's an incredibly detailed sequence depicting his routine. Just from that scene, we know more about David than we do about any other character in the film. We learn how he feels about humanity, about his situation, about the mission he is on. It's an incredible characterization infodump which is clever and subtle enough not to feel like an infodump. Actually, a lot of scenes in the film, even later on, are shot from David's perspective and clearly focus on his emotions and reactions over those of other characters.

The reason I think this is less obvious once the crew wakes up, is that everyone treats David like garbage. People ignore him. They refuse to use his name. They talk about him as if he isn't there. They try to remind him that he isn't a real person and has no emotions when he is clearly displaying emotions. It would have been easy to make that cartoonish and really hammer home that all these people are awful, but it's really well done.
Look, I agree, but that doesn't make David the protagonist. The protagonist isn't defined by the level of how well a character is fleshed out, though you'd usually expect them to be.

Shaw narratively fills the place of protagonist in key ways. In terms of plot, she's part of the catalyst as to why the Prometheus goes where it does, since she and Charlie came to Weyland about the star markings. She's the one who has something approaching a character arc, or at least, a character affirmation - she starts out with her faith, and even after going through all she does, reaffirms her faith in front of David. She's likewise the one who gives the monologue at the end - parallels with Ripley aside, it's standard hero's journey stuff. She ends with the line "and I'm still searching for answers," which ties in the ending of the film with the start of it. Plus, other things, such as getting the 'boss fight' of the movie for instance, and the equivalent chestburster avoidance scene.

David, in contrast, does everything at the behest of Weyland. Again, I like David as a character (he's probably the best character of the film), but functionally and plotwise, he's more just along for the ride. It's in Covenant that he actually becomes the protagonist of sorts (more like an anti-hero, but semantics).

All the actual problems with Prometheus are also present in Covenant. We have this huge crew who we don't spend any time getting to know and who mostly serve as an expendable buffet. It still can't decide if it wants to be a smart movie or not, and ends up being stuck somewhere in between. The script clearly went through a lot of rewrites and it shows.

There's more creative gore and action, so I guess you could say it's a less boring film, but even then so much of it is just stuff we've seen before. The shower scene, for example, was meant to be scary but is comical because it's so cliche.
Covenant does share problems with Prometheus, but I'm far more forgiving to them.

You could make the argument that the crews of both films act like idiots, but the Prometheus crew is meant to be the best of the best, or at the least, people that Weyland could afford to pay (i.e. a lot). And these numbskulls get lost in a structure that they'd mapped, destroy a head that they found, and has Weyland have David experiment on ONE OF HIS OWN SCIENTISTS. In contrast, the crew of the Covenant, while professional, aren't the cream of the crop, or at least, we're not given any reason to believe that they are. And prior to landing on the Engineers' planet, they've already under mental stress, including the captain.

Concerning rewrites, yes, Covenant does reek of rewrites, or at least, there's solid indication that it was 'dumbed down' after Prometheus. But then, Prometheus squandered all its attempts of being deep and meaningful, so what am I missing here? Covenant isn't short of allusions either via David and Walter. But I've said it before and I'll say it here, a simple story told well is preferable to a complex story told poorly.

David is a completely different character, which is fine, but I feel like we needed to see the change.
I think the 'change' in David, such as it is, was well done.

Everything David does in Covenant has groundwork laid for it in Prometheus, even if that wasn't necessarily the intent. I generally saw David as being condescending towards those around him. He puts up with their shit, but is happy to experiment on Charlie. He serves Weyland, but there's no sense of there being any fondness. He tells Shaw that (paraphrased) "sometimes, you have to destroy to create," indicating a disinterest in the wider stakes that may or may not exist (confirmed to later exist). And him contacting Shaw at the end comes off as self serving.

So, cut to Covenant, and David's in the position of indulging his darker aspects. We know that on the route to the Engineer homeworld, he looked up their history on the ship, and I think it's implied that he developed similar antipathy towards the Engineers as he did towards humanity. Engineers create humans, humans create androids, both humans and Engineers are flawed, only David is frustrated by his own inability to create. He can only create monstrosities. He can play music, but can't compose it. He has love for Shaw, but in twisted form, and it's further reflected as to how he kisses Walter - without any kind of passion. The great irony of David is that he's arguably as flawed as his creators, since he creates the xenomorph, and, well, how does that go?

I don't know. I don't hate it. It's far better than Resurrection, but it never rises above just being mediocre for me. I feel like perhaps they had interesting ideas at some point, and then the studio came in and said "Oh no, people didn't like Prometheus. Add more things from alien. Do more alien stuff. The focus groups like alien stuff. Make the protagonist more like Ripley. The focus groups like Ripley. There should be a fight with a xenomorph involving machinery. The xenomorph should run around in corridors. Do more alien stuff!" The result has good things and people clearly worked hard on it, but doesn't feel like the product of any deep passion or creative vision.
So, again, I can't disagree with a lot of that, but again, see the good story told poorly vs. simple story told well paradigm. Even if Covenant was made by committee, I don't have any problem declaring that it's better than Prometheus.

The one thing I would question is the idea of Daniels being like Ripley. And while that may be true, one has to question about Shaw in this context. It actually occurred to me that every Alien film has had a female protagonist,* while every Predator film has had a male protagonist, so is Daniels copying Ripley, or is it staying true to form?

*Alien vs. Predator also continues this tradition with Lex. Requiem is too wretched of a film to even have anything resembling a protagonist, much less a character arc.

I don't think anyone was hugely excited to tell this story, I think Fox just wanted to keep the franchise spinning.
Prometheus and Covenant were more due to Ridley Scott than Fox, I think.

I'm sure the info is out there somewhere, but from what I've read, I recall Scott being put off in the direction the Alien series went after his film. He commented that the hanging question in the first film was where did the ship come from, who was the pilot, why was it carrying egs, etc. This is a question that none of the subsequent films bothered to address at all. And while you can point to the EU, the Xenopedia EU has never really synced up that well with the films. So, Prometheus and Covenant were Scott trying to address this mystery.

Now, whether you think it's a mystery that needed to be answered, or whether Scott trying to shift the focus from the xenomorph to androids were good moves is down to opinion, but I think Scott was genuinely passionate about Prometheus - arguably less so than Covenant, but Covenant does come a step closer to answering this question, and in unifying the eras of the franchise (there's only 20 years in-universe between Covenant and Alien). But I think the films owe more to Scott than Fox, which is a non-entity filmwise at this point anyway. What Disney does with the IP, if anything, remains to be seen. Scott wants a third prequel film, but greenlighting it is another matter.
 

Drathnoxis

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Another (the anime). There was a lot of potential here for some good old deduction. The premise is that there is a ghost in a class, but nobody knows who the ghost is, not even the ghost, and as long as the ghost remains people will die. The problem is that the characters never solve the mystery and, in fact, one of them knew the answer the whole time for nonsensical reasons and never said anything... just because.

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - The Endless Eight. I love groundhog day loops, but endless eight is not good. It's the exact same episode shown 8 times, with slight cosmetic differences. There was an infinite number of things they could have done to freshen things up without sacrificing the basic premise and theme. But no, the same episode 8 times because they can't be bothered to write anything else.

Pokemon Origins. Basically there just weren't enough episodes and they wanted to do too much with it. That ended up making the pacing really bad with montages and some other strange decisions. Should have been a 12-24 episode series.

Firefly.

Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson: Why does every YA book series have to implode before they get to a satisfying conclusion? Really interesting world with a great power system that kills off its most interesting characters early on and clearly shows that there was no concrete plan for the story by the time we get to the end.
I actually thought the ending to the first Mistborn trilogy was incredibly satisfying, and it seemed very well plotted to me. The pacing was good and everything fit together well in the end. I found Vin to be kind of irritating in the second book, but I'd forgiven her by the third.
 
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Bob_McMillan

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I actually thought the ending to the first Mistborn trilogy was incredibly satisfying, and it seemed very well plotted to me. The pacing was good and everything fit together well in the end. I found Vin to be kind of irritating in the second book, but I'd forgiven her by the third.
It has been a long time since I read it to be fair. I seem to be remember how it was really annoying how the CHOSEN ONE changed every book. But hey, I was a kid when I read them.
 

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Ad Astra.

I got very bored with the movie a quarter of the way through it and didn't regain interest until the last quarter. There's this whole relationship the main character has with his father that is portrayed as something that has deeply effected him and when the movie starts everything is hit by this, and pardon me for getting vague, pulse thingy from the communications ship that was sent out to Neptune years ago to try and find and communicate with life outside the solar system. The crew were believed to be all dead but it turns out his father is still alive and the government wants him to talk with his father to try and get him to stop whatever is going on.

The movie spends way WAY too much time on the journey to even try to communicating with his father and it's all so pointless and unneeded (Like bandits on the moon). It was all so very boring until the end when he's finally face to face with his father and I could FEEL something in this part of the movie. There was something there that could have been an amazing story but because the rest of the movie never gave us a lot of context on what kind of person his father is and their past together outside of very vague things it falls short.

So much of the movie is just about going from here to there, there to the next place. If it had given us flashbacks to the main character as a kid and showed how important finding other intelligent life was to his dad and why he thought it was important for humanity and we saw how that obsession led to a poor relationship with his son then it could have been AMAZING, but it doesn't... so it isn't...
 
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09philj

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Doctor Who, a lot of the time. Both the old serials and modern episodic series often have trouble doing justice to their concepts due to budgetary constraints, time constraints, and authorial incompetence. The Time Monster's probably the story that did the least with the number of good ideas it had.

RWBY, which shot itself in the foot by going with a grandiose ongoing plot beyond the budget of the show, or talents of the writers, to realise. If they'd set out to make a monster of the week show, they could have delivered the same things that have worked about it here and there in a format far better suited to them.
 
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The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - The Endless Eight. I love groundhog day loops, but endless eight is not good. It's the exact same episode shown 8 times, with slight cosmetic differences. There was an infinite number of things they could have done to freshen things up without sacrificing the basic premise and theme. But no, the same episode 8 times because they can't be bothered to write anything else.
Endless Eight did way more harm to the show that never fully recovered. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is one those shows that age worse and is clearly from the late 2000s. You will hardly find anyone reference it nowadays, unless your an older anime or otaku fan. MofHS I never liked personally, and always hated the main character. When I heard about Endless Eight, I immediately dropped the show.

Pacific Rim. They wasted the other cast of characters and mechs. The Russian and Chinese team. They're introduced, only to be quickly killed off or go down like bitches.These characters should have lasted a good while longer before killing them off. Uprising sorta solved this issue, but it has so many problems, that I still won't buy the sequel for $5. You ain't seeing a third Pacific Rim in theaters. There was a TV series announced in 2018, but nothing has been said since then, meaning the project is going nowhere.
 

Palindromemordnilap

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Ad Astra.

I got very bored with the movie a quarter of the way through it and didn't regain interest until the last quarter. There's this whole relationship the main character has with his father that is portrayed as something that has deeply effected him and when the movie starts everything is hit by this, and pardon me for getting vague, pulse thingy from the communications ship that was sent out to Neptune years ago to try and find and communicate with life outside the solar system. The crew were believed to be all dead but it turns out his father is still alive and the government wants him to talk with his father to try and get him to stop whatever is going on.

The movie spends way WAY too much time on the journey to even try to communicating with his father and it's all so pointless and unneeded (Like bandits on the moon). It was all so very boring until the end when he's finally face to face with his father and I could FEEL something in this part of the movie. There was something there that could have been an amazing story but because the rest of the movie never gave us a lot of context on what kind of person his father is and their past together outside of very vague things it falls short.

So much of the movie is just about going from here to there, there to the next place. If it had given us flashbacks to the main character as a kid and showed how important finding other intelligent life was to his dad and why he thought it was important for humanity and we saw how that obsession led to a poor relationship with his son then it could have been AMAZING, but it doesn't... so it isn't...
Honestly I think I'd have enjoyed Ad Astra a lot more without the narration. Let us view the meandering plot with our own eyes, draw our own conclusions, have our own thoughts. Probably would have been a nice contemplative think piece. But nope, got to have Brad Pitt talking to us so the director is sure we know how clever he thinks he's being. Instantly went from contemplative to condescending
 

Asita

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Okay, I'll play:

-Assassin's Creed ("okay, we all know that fans are far more invested in historical assassin stuff than the modern day stuff, so let's make a movie that almost entirely takes place in the modern day. Genius!")
Honestly, I'd actually posit the opposite with regards to the actual games themselves. Up to Revelations, the overwhelming majority of the games amounted to worldbuilding to set up what by rights should have been the main epic plot. Not to mince words, everything in the Animus is backstory, events that transpired centuries in the past, loosely tied together in that it provides context for the millennia-spanning secret war that was coming to its head in the modern day. Desmond and the story related to him were comparatively lackluster mostly due to a lack of focus and the resultant lack of development. And that's the thing that gets me. The first few games were basically laying a foundation for when Desmond and the remnants of the Assassin Brotherhood finally take center stage. Hell, the justification for getting back into the Animus after the first game was to exploit the bleeding effect and turn Desmond into a master-assassin by proxy, so this intent was pretty overt.

...And then they decide to do the same thing in AC3, turning in the modern plotline into as much as an afterthought as Desmond piecing himself back together in Revelations (itself the explicit point of putting him back in the Animus for that game, and a potentially an interesting way to flesh out Desmond's character...reduced to a rudimentary platformer with narration over it), put a token effort into giving that an ominous conclusion, and basically just go through the motions for future games. I swear, I want to slap the writers.
 

dreng3

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It has been a long time since I read it to be fair. I seem to be remember how it was really annoying how the CHOSEN ONE changed every book. But hey, I was a kid when I read them.

That party actually struck me as a pretty nice subversion. Even in the first book, towards the end, Vin goes all "I'll resolve this once and for all by killing the evil overlord" and so she goes of to kill him and gets her ass handed to her in a spectacular fashion. The rebellion had forged a great and wonderful myth with the mistborn, they had the people believing, and in the end Vin bought her own hype.

On the whole the first trilogy is a matter of scale, when it comes to removing the despot the urchin girl with superpowers, the one truly willing to tilt the system, is the chosen one, simply because she is willing to fight the powers that be, and has the powers to do so. When it comes to uniting the shattered nation the chosen one is the nobleman with a heart of gold because he meets the requirements. And when it comes to saving the world it ends up in the hands of the scholar.
Each book has a distinct goal and each goal requires a distinct protagonist with a distinct skillset. And it is made better by previous protagonists carrying over.
 

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Apparently Evangelion had such missed potential the creator has spent the past 25 years remaking it piece by piece.
 

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Apparently Evangelion had such missed potential the creator has spent the past 25 years remaking it piece by piece.
Apparently Anno was going through a lot when the original series was going on and now he wanted to try a different take on it.

I will say that the fact it's kind of a sequel on top of being a reboot is somewhat interesting though the execution has been all over the place as the Rebuild has gone off the rails from the original show. And the previews for 3.0 + 1(god, who came up with that numbering scheme?) are looking......I have no fucking clue at this point honestly. I've been waiting a decade to see where all of this is presumably going so I'll end up watching it that reason alone.
 

Specter Von Baren

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The anime naming convention. The same people who name shit like Fate: Zero: Resurgence: Rise of Underwear: The Sequel: Revengence: Part 2.......the Reboot.
I dunno, I still prefer the nonsensical naming schemes from Japan over all the book titles I see that have a name that sounds cool like "The Sky is Everywhere", like OH BOY, is it a sci-fi story about people living in the atmosphere of a gas giant or something, no, it's just a metaphor.
 

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Apparently Anno was going through a lot when the original series was going on and now he wanted to try a different take on it.

I will say that the fact it's kind of a sequel on top of being a reboot is somewhat interesting though the execution has been all over the place as the Rebuild has gone off the rails from the original show. And the previews for 3.0 + 1(god, who came up with that numbering scheme?) are looking......I have no fucking clue at this point honestly. I've been waiting a decade to see where all of this is presumably going so I'll end up watching it that reason alone.
The anime naming convention. The same people who name shit like Fate: Zero: Resurgence: Rise of Underwear: The Sequel: Revengence: Part 2.......the Reboot.
Apparently Evangelion had such missed potential the creator has spent the past 25 years remaking it piece by piece.
This is why I hate Evangelion. I just tell people to end it at 2.0 and not bother with the rest. Gainax does not know what to do anymore since the early 2010s. Most of their talent left to form Studio Trigger. The same talent that did Gurren Lagaan and Panty & Stocking. You can't make the same thing spark three times. Especially when diffrerent creators were playing follow the leader for a decade or reconstruction your deconstruction while giving you a devil triggered "Fuck you!".
 

happyninja42

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I dunno, I still prefer the nonsensical naming schemes from Japan over all the book titles I see that have a name that sounds cool like "The Sky is Everywhere", like OH BOY, is it a sci-fi story about people living in the atmosphere of a gas giant or something, no, it's just a metaphor.
If given the choice, I prefer the latter. A movie called The Sky is Everywhere, is immediately more interesting to me at first glance, than the plethora of anime titles that are non-sensical. in fact they often immediately turn me off from even wanting to watch them, because my brain goes "Oh god, it's some ridiculous anime, where they think they're way more intelligent and out there with their concept, but it's just going to be some shonen jump battle thing with loligirls in stripper skirts, and dudes that are stick thin but with stupid hair. Also god will probably have to die in their somewhere too, because they love using christian imagery in their non-christian stories, and making some incredibly weird hybrid of just batshit ideas. Yeah I'll pass. What's this The Sky is Everywhere about?"

Now, that being said, I fully acknowledge that The Sky is Everywhere might be just as far up it's own ass as Ludos: The Child of Sin: Reborn: Salvation Equation 2.0: Infection....the Sequel, but at least it seems more interesting to me, and accessible than the other option.
 

Specter Von Baren

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If given the choice, I prefer the latter. A movie called The Sky is Everywhere, is immediately more interesting to me at first glance, than the plethora of anime titles that are non-sensical. in fact they often immediately turn me off from even wanting to watch them, because my brain goes "Oh god, it's some ridiculous anime, where they think they're way more intelligent and out there with their concept, but it's just going to be some shonen jump battle thing with loligirls in stripper skirts, and dudes that are stick thin but with stupid hair. Also god will probably have to die in their somewhere too, because they love using christian imagery in their non-christian stories, and making some incredibly weird hybrid of just batshit ideas. Yeah I'll pass. What's this The Sky is Everywhere about?"

Now, that being said, I fully acknowledge that The Sky is Everywhere might be just as far up it's own ass as Ludos: The Child of Sin: Reborn: Salvation Equation 2.0: Infection....the Sequel, but at least it seems more interesting to me, and accessible than the other option.
I dunno, I can laugh at the ridiculous anime names, these book titles just make me disappointed.
 

happyninja42

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I dunno, I can laugh at the ridiculous anime names, these book titles just make me disappointed.
Sure, I can laugh at the ridiculous titles too, it doesn't mean it actually compels me to actually check out their material. Like I said, the others can be just as bad as far as actual content, but at least the title, for me personally at least, is way more intriguing, I'll actually probably give it a second glance, maybe even watch an episode of it or whatever. Buttpirates: The Poopdecking: Backdoor Plunders: The Resurgence: The Sequel: Yarr Matey Edition 2.0? No thanks, I'll pass.
 
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