Missouri Man Pleads Guilty To Possession of "Cartoon" Child Porn

[Epona]

The boy who was raped has to pay child support to his rapist. Now reverse that, if a 19 year old man had impregnated a 15 year old girl, would the law force her into parenthood at 15?

That son of a *****! I'll kill him!

~but in all seriousness, the law can call it rape all they want. Apparently, at 14, I weaseled myself into getting raped. High five!
(this is why the paradigm doesn't work when the "victim" is seeking it, btw)

Yeah well whatever, the point was to show how the law (and society seems to approve) treat male children who are raped/molested differently than female children. According to the law, a 15 year old is a child and 19 year old is an adult. While a female, child or not would never be lawfully forced into parenthood, it seems to be a-ok to that to a male, child or not.

 

[GTwander]

The boy who was raped has to pay child support to his rapist. Now reverse that, if a 19 year old man had impregnated a 15 year old girl, would the law force her into parenthood at 15?

That son of a *****! I'll kill him!

~but in all seriousness, the law can call it rape all they want. Apparently, at 14, I weaseled myself into getting raped. High five!
(this is why the paradigm doesn't work when the "victim" is seeking it, btw)

Yeah well whatever, the point was to show how the law (and society seems to approve) treat male children who are raped/molested differently than female children.

Yeah, we made shake-n-bake (and I helped).

 

[The Lunatic]

He plead guilty to a lesser obscenity charge, just for the record.

I mean, if you want to be all factual about it.

Which maybe you don't.

Pleading out to a lesser charge may still be a guilty plea, but it's often an ass-saving maneuver.

Yes, it's still a guilty plea.

If he did it to "Save his ass" then, that's his own problem.

Clearly the guy needed psychiatric help and with a psychiatrist, likely would have gotten off with a very light sentence.

Having a health professional say "This is a problem, I'm helping him to fix it" tends to work a lot better than "Yup! I'm obscene, jail me!".

 

[Dense_Electric]

The only thing obscene about this is convicting a man over a drawing. A drawing is not a real person, therefor a drawing can depict virtually anything without producing a victim. If there's no victim, there's no crime.

 

[Zombiefish]

Because its the sexual desire itself that's the problem, not simply his treatment of it. He needs psychiatric help, not a cartoon. And it's not comparative to murder fantasies. Depictions of violence are for a variety of reasons, and are not always seen as bad by society. But child pornography is for one reason only.

And rape is hardly better. In the criminal hierarchy, pedophiles and rapists are on the bottom, and they're not very far apart. He may not have been harming anyone (yet, or that we know of), but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be getting help.

Why is his sexual desire an issue if he never acts upon it by harming another human?

And are you implying he can be cured?

No, but contrary to popular belief, repression is not at all the terrible thing people believe it to be. The brain is so completely susceptible to conditioning that any habitual response to an emotion is taken as habit. So, for example, if a man is aroused by the image of children, and his response to this arousal is to sexually release it, then his brain will program itself to seek release every time he's aroused. But, say he's trained to respond to the arousal in a different matter, or even to see the object of arousal in a completely different light, then I think he'll be better off. Certainly wouldn't have to worry about people going on his computer.

As a stoic, I find the latest fad of "if you have an emotion, you must act on it, or it'll tear you apart" rather horribly insulting. People are strong-willed when they want to be, they don't have to follow their heart's every desire, especially when it's something such as being aroused by child pornography.

I cant form an opinion on repression as I don't know much about it. Maybe you are right and repressing his urges wont harm him, but I think each individual situation will be different. Some people may not be able to repress their urges without becoming seriously depressed. Many straight people become depressed as they cant engage in sexual acts or find a partner.
I guess it would be down to the individual.

Still I hold by my opinion that cartoon porn of any kind is not harmful and therefore should not be unlawful. Like I said why is it an issue?

The only argument for his arrest is the 'slippery slope' in that cartoons will lead to real vids will lead to actual rape. In some cases this is probably true but in MANY others it is not. Therefore to lock him up for it is premature and wrong.

A much better solution would be to psychologically profile to dude, have unbiased professionals judge whether he is a threat and then make decisive actions either to lock him up if he is found to be dangerous, or add him to a 'watch' list and let him go if he isn't.

 

[Little Gray]

You can believe that all you want but thankfully the law in many countries disagrees.

and you can cleave to the law all you want, but many cultures outlaw homosexuality and interracial relationships. NONE of the laws referenced have any bearing on reality.

Sorry, I may not like Loli material, but that doesn't mean everyone who does is a pedo.

You can call them whatever you want but that doesnt change what they are. You see when we are talking about somebody who gets off on pictures of naked children it doesnt matter to me if they are drawn or not. The drawn part is irrelevant its the naked children part that makes them a pedo.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Has anyone seen loli comics and if so would you say it is as bad as this? Im just curious but I dont want to go to jail for looking it up

when I say as bad as this I mean go to jail bad?

 

[GTwander]

Has anyone seen loli comics and if so would you say it is as bad as this? Im just curious but I dont want to go to jail for looking it up

Never seen Elfen Lied (yet), but from what I hear, it has naked little girls and rampant disembowelment.
So that's things that Americans hate and love in the same show.

 

[irishda]

I don't understand the demonization of child porn/pedophiles, as though there is something fundamentally sick/wrong with it. Just throwing out a random time period here, 14th century (Although it was also practiced for long after and long before). Girls were married shortly after starting puberty, which was generally between ages 8-16. They were married to men who were 25-40 years old. The Church did eventually step in and forbid 'child' marriage, although they considered a person to no longer be a child at 12 (for girls) and 14 (for boys). That practice wasn't considered strange or disturbing in the slightest.

Just because most developed countries believe it to be immoral doesn't mean it's inherently bad.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not attempting to justify the practice (Because honestly, I really don't care one way or the other), I just don't understand where the sheer amount of blind hatred comes from.

...because people have been taught that their culture's way is the ONLY right way and any deviation from that is wrong, immoral and in need of psychiatric intervention at a minimum.

It really shows the sickness of our culture when people call for cruel and unusual punishment like castration, execution with/without a trial and prison justice (anal rape).

I think people who call for these things are as bad or worse than the person they are condemning.

People from the 14th century also understood the body's physiological well-being as being four liquids that needed to be drained if someone was sick. I'm chalking up the child marriages of the past to a time when the average world-wide life expectancy of a person was roughly 30 years old, almost a third of what modern medicine has brought us to. Mankind evolves over time, even if ever so slightly, and people of today mature at a slower rate than I imagine they did not so long ago. So, even though they're children to us today, it wasn't so long ago that they weren't seen as that back then.

You can chalk it up any way you like but it doesn't change natural attractions that cultures do and have always oppressed. For example, until recently and throughout most of history, homosexuals were oppressed for their attractions. When I was younger, I remember heated debates about interracial marriage. Today though, we think nothing about interracial marriage.

You can't compare consenting adults with children. It's the same thing I say to people who present that "slippery slope" argument in opposition against gay marriage (first its two men, then what's to stop someone from marrying a donkey). One is not comparative to the other, so I'd be careful about calling adults loving children natural.

 

[irishda]

...This is exactly why when it's a young boy and older woman it's all gravy (from a male perspective, the women folk are usually screaming "oh, mah baby!" all the same), but when it's a young girl and older man people can't pick up the pitchforks fast enough.

Yeah, no one cares at all when someone diddles a little boy. That dude from Penn State got to retire to an island, I'm pretty sure.

I give an example and you try to justify your angle with a man-on-boy diddle?
You're not trying hard enough.

@Crono
all that hubbub for a 4-year difference between the older girl and boy?
PSH! I lied about my age at 14 and hooked up with a 19 year old before. That poor girl (not mine, yours) was done dirty if you ask me... (well, maybe I did mine dirty too)

...and quit using the word "rape", you're throwing it around like wadded-up kleenex.

My angle is child molestation is wrong with few exceptions. Your (and a few others) angle seems to be the system is skewed towards one direction and therefore the whole thing should be let go.

 

[irishda]

-snip-

I cant form an opinion on repression as I don't know much about it. Maybe you are right and repressing his urges wont harm him, but I think each individual situation will be different. Some people may not be able to repress their urges without becoming seriously depressed. Many straight people become depressed as they cant engage in sexual acts or find a partner.
I guess it would be down to the individual.

Still I hold by my opinion that cartoon porn of any kind is not harmful and therefore should not be unlawful. Like I said why is it an issue?

The only argument for his arrest is the 'slippery slope' in that cartoons will lead to real vids will lead to actual rape. In some cases this is probably true but in MANY others it is not. Therefore to lock him up for it is premature and wrong.

A much better solution would be to psychologically profile to dude, have unbiased professionals judge whether he is a threat and then make decisive actions either to lock him up if he is found to be dangerous, or add him to a 'watch' list and let him go if he isn't.

And that's perfectly alright. So long as there's a recognition that there might be a problem, I'm alright with that. But I'm certainly not about to just dismiss it outright like a great deal of people in here defending it on the assumption that the rest of us are just backwoods prudes.

 

[GTwander]

...This is exactly why when it's a young boy and older woman it's all gravy (from a male perspective, the women folk are usually screaming "oh, mah baby!" all the same), but when it's a young girl and older man people can't pick up the pitchforks fast enough.

Yeah, no one cares at all when someone diddles a little boy. That dude from Penn State got to retire to an island, I'm pretty sure.

I give an example and you try to justify your angle with a man-on-boy diddle?
You're not trying hard enough.

@Crono
all that hubbub for a 4-year difference between the older girl and boy?
PSH! I lied about my age at 14 and hooked up with a 19 year old before. That poor girl (not mine, yours) was done dirty if you ask me... (well, maybe I did mine dirty too)

...and quit using the word "rape", you're throwing it around like wadded-up kleenex.

My angle is child molestation is wrong with few exceptions. Your (and a few others) angle seems to be the system is skewed towards one direction and therefore the whole thing should be let go.

No, my take is that teenagers with a pulsing libido can't be looked at through the same lens as an 8-year old child. He was a willing participant in this whole thing, even if the adult (in the eyes of the law and society at large) is the one that is overall "at fault" here.

My main issue is that "child molestation" immediately brings a mental image into frame. Now, what do you see when I say "inappropriate relations with a student"? Looks a lot less like some toddler is getting fingered, and much more like a horny teen and teacher making mistakes together - don'it?

Quit acting like a teen with a CLEAR idea of what is right/wrong is completely blameless in all this. I even said before that he knew exactly what he was doing, and was simply jumping on an opportunity to get laid. Shit, like this very situation hasn't been the very plot of many a coming-of-age high school movie... only in those cases it's "cheeky", and in this one it's "rabble, rabble rabble".

~But I will admit that I am a subscriber to the idea of a double-standard where a young girl and older man together is just wrong.
It's wrong!

 

[Shingro]

My angle is child molestation is wrong with few exceptions. Your (and a few others) angle seems to be the system is skewed towards one direction and therefore the whole thing should be let go.

So, by the logic you've previously presented, rape fantasies and porn simulating rape would put you at danger for committing real rape then? Would you be willing to say that?

I'd like to remind you before you answer that rape fantasies are one of the most common and most studied of sexual fantasies, rape is equally illegal and damaging to real people, additionally it's one of the most common 'simulated' porn tropes in existence with the added element that it's often real people reenacting the event.

Judging by your previous comments I think you're smart enough to see the problem with your 'common sense' conclusions.

 

[GTwander]

Wait a minute...

I just realized I've been arguing between this thread and the one about the teacher that banged a student... what the hell was this one about again?

Oh yeah, I got thrown off by that anecdote of the 15 year old paying child support to his 19 year old 'rapist'.

OT - Cartoon porn is weird enough without it involving kids, but I still don't see how it should be illegal. It's fiction, thusly intangible. I can't wrap my head around the idea of a representation of something being held in the same regard as the real deal.

 

[Zetatrain]

Has anyone seen loli comics and if so would you say it is as bad as this? Im just curious but I dont want to go to jail for looking it up

Never seen Elfen Lied (yet), but from what I hear, it has naked little girls and rampant disembowelment.
So that's things that Americans hate and love in the same show.

From what I remember the characters in Elfen Lied are in their mid teens so so it would not be considered pedo since pedophilia involves pre-pubescent individuals.

 

[GTwander]

I can't wrap my head around the idea of a representation of something being held in the same regard as the real deal.

The people who hold the two in the same light have some kind of mental problem with the fact that they can not differentiate between fiction, realty, drawn and photorealistic.

Atleast thats my best guess!

Ah, now that explains their inability to differentiate one man's kink from another man's crime spree.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes, it's still a guilty plea.

If he did it to "Save his ass" then, that's his own problem.

It also means that your post was kind of...What's that word? Wrong.

Clearly the guy needed psychiatric help and with a psychiatrist, likely would have gotten off with a very light sentence.

You don't know he needs mental help. It's also unlikely he could cop a plea for psychiatric help to reduce a sentence.

Having a health professional say "This is a problem, I'm helping him to fix it" tends to work a lot better than "Yup! I'm obscene, jail me!".

This is MURRCA. More to the point, this is MISSOURAH.

 

[Something Amyss]

The drawn part is irrelevant its the naked children part that makes them a pedo.

I'm kind of disheartened that you've shifted away from the whole legal aspect. I mean, there's so many other laws that I wanted to touch upon.

The drawn part brings up the issue of fantasy vs reality. You do understand the difference, right? It is, therefore, rather relevant to bring up.

It's also the whole reason the religious right is incorrect about video games. Or, as someone on a video game forum, would you like to take a stand and say that video gamers have murderous desires

"ERMAGERD! PPL WANT TO HARM CHILDREN IN SKYRIM!"

Well, obviously, they are child abusers. On the list.