MLG Disqualifies Top Two League of Legends Teams

[DracoSuave]

Captcha: Don't waste time

Okay captcha, I'll keep it short and sweet.

There's no point going on here. You're misattributing what Riot said to MLG, and now claiming Riot didn't say things they VERY MUCH DID.

You keep asserting what Riot said but have not actually provided any evidence for this. My own research has produced nothing, although I vaguely remember an extremely ambiguous forum post from a Riot member saying the teams colluded to screw around in game one, but it sure wasn't to fix the match nor split the prize money.

As far as I know, the sum total of Riot's position on the matter is contained in MLGs press release, because I know for a fact that they have not released an official press release statement of their own.

And one more thing, because this is really getting on my nerves:

It was on their own forums, a red post. It's been bumped off the forums but it was there and everyone talked about it.

So, no you aren't dealing with complete information, so we have nothing to talk about.

The judge MEVER provides the evidence. It's the people making the case. Seriously, this isn't even difficult.

It "isn't even difficult" to read what I fucking wrote and respond to it, so please do so instead of harping on and on about how "Riot's a judge", something that's A) not true, and B) completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. This isn't a court of law, and you're right that in one the judge wouldn't have to provide evidence to make a verdict... but because this isn't a court of law, and because there's no court of appeals or a jury or a public courtroom or any of that jazz, please stop making irrelevant analogies. It's MLGs sole prerogative to suspend the two teams, and Riot's sole prerogative to refuse to award them circuit points, and that's the sum total of their relationship; Riot at no point ever acted as a judge or arbiter, so stop pretending like it ought to be immune to criticism. They are at best a third party. And you know what? A court of law is not above criticism, for that matter, so stop pretending like it is. A judge who makes a controversial verdict better damn well be prepared to justify it to the community writ large or he should be thrown out of office.

So, like I was saying: this has nothing to do with a court of law. I will try to put this very simply: if Riot's official position is called into question, then it is within Riot's best interest as a company to rectify the situation by justifying their position. The easiest way to do that is to provide the evidence that MLG was relying on to DQ the teams, which they presumably provided to Riot to use to make their decision regarding the awarding of circuit points. This has fuck all to do with a courtroom, and everything to do with Public Relations 101.

If the evidence involves eyewitnesses you can realize that they can't do that right?

But this IS what is known:

The two teams decided to split the money before the match--agreeing in public. This is a fact.
The two teams used one game to fuck around in ARAM. This is a fact.
The two teams used non-optimal strategies in the other four games, the sorts of strategies you don't use to compete in the finals of a tournament with. This is a fact.

Given those three facts alone, it is reasonable to say 'Yes, collusion is the most probably outcome.'

MLG and Riot looked at that, plus other evidence, and decided to DQ.
The other two teams have said as their statement 'We didn't do it.' which contravenes the facts YOU ALREADY HAVE.

Sorry, the teams have the extraordinary claim here, not MLG.

Your demand for MORE evidence is unreasonable, and your lack of knowledge of the situation is not Riot's or MLG's fault.

There's 50 forum topics filled with rantings of people asking for unreasonable things on the riot forums. You can go add to one of them.

 

[DjinnFor]

I originally decided to not even bother to read your response as I didn't expect anything good to come of it. Curiosity got the better of me so I decided to come back to see what you could have scrounged up to defend your position here. I was not surprised; and in fact what I read was riddled with so many fallacies, strawmen, and irrelevancies it's taken me a while to unravel it all.

It was on their own forums, a red post. It's been bumped off the forums but it was there and everyone talked about it.

So some Riot employee made a post on their forums somewhere. You said that twice already; do you think repeating yourself yet again is an actual response to what I wrote? My point about you providing no evidence of this, and Riot not actually releasing an official press release on the topic, still stands.

I particularly like how you just casually ignore my demand that you back your claim with actual evidence. Apparently you're immune to criticism too, just like MLG and Riot. I should take every BS assertion you make at face value, is that it?

If the evidence involves eyewitnesses you can realize that they can't do that right?

Sure they can. They can very easily sit their eyewitness down in front of a camera and say "start talking" if they really wanted them to.

The two teams decided to split the money before the match--agreeing in public. This is a fact.

Nope. That's the very "fact" that I'm contesting, genius, if that wasn't completely obvious.

Someone claims they don't believe an accusation to be true based on insufficient evidence, so you assume away their issue by declaring that the validity of the very "fact" that is being debated is not up for question, therefore rendering the entire argument pointless.

A classic case of Begging the Question, a very effective strategy as far as trying to defend an untenable position is concerned, I'm sure. Just declare yourself right and use that to conclude that you're right. Doesn't work on me, I'm afraid.

To reiterate: no, that is not a "fact". MLG or Riot claiming that it is a "fact" and claiming that they have (but not actually providing) evidence for it changes nothing.

The two teams used one game to fuck around in ARAM. This is a fact.

Sure, and one which they readily admitted.

The two teams used non-optimal strategies in the other four games, the sorts of strategies you don't use to compete in the finals of a tournament with. This is a fact.

Nope.

You're acting as though this is self-evident based on a casual viewing of the matches but it really isn't at all. Of course, the validity of what you or I "think" a particular player was trying to do really means nothing and is no evidence whatsoever. So either you have some kind of affirmative evidence indicating what their motivations were or you're making up some BS. I'm inclined to the latter.

If you could back even a single one of your assertions that I've been contesting this entire time with any evidence whatsoever, why haven't you already?

Answer: you can't.

Given those three facts alone, it is reasonable to say 'Yes, collusion is the most probably outcome.'

No, actually only statement two is necessary to come to that conclusion. But either way, this is irrelevant, because this debate was never about whether the teams should have been disqualified for collusion.

Your position is not "reasonable". Trying to imply it is by pointing to completely irrelevant positions that aren't even being debated and saying "Look, those are reasonable" isn't going to work with me because I'm not a dumbass.

MLG and Riot looked at that, plus other evidence, and decided to DQ.

I like how you casually slide in the claim that there is other evidence that is supposed to bolster your/Riots/MLG's position in order to misdirect everyone away from the fact that the debate is about whether there is any evidence to support that position.

The other two teams have said as their statement 'We didn't do it.' which contravenes the facts YOU ALREADY HAVE.

If you're going to characterize a position at least characterize it in a way that resembles their actual position in some superficial way. That way it's not completely obvious that you're propping up a strawman.

Start with actually quoting them instead of making up some words and sticking them in quotations as though it's... well, an actual quote.

Your demand for MORE evidence is unreasonable

Stop right there.

You have no evidence.

At all.

Whatsoever.

This debate is not about whether I'm unreasonably demanding more evidence after you've already provided me with what you consider plenty.

This debate is about me asking for any evidence at all that supports Riot's or MLG's position and you failing and/or refusing to provide it because of whatever BS justification you happen to come up with, whether it be "Riot's a judge" or whatever.

Anyways, I'm done here. I hope you are too, for your sake, because anything you care to write won't actually be read. My curiosity is not enough to get me to risk the potential heart attack I would endure reading something as cringe-inducing as what I was responding to.

 

[Evil Smurf]

Well everyone knows FairPlay is OP so why use it?

 

[DracoSuave]

Stop right there.

You have no evidence.

At all.

I'm sorry, if you won't look at the facts, and you won't acknowledge the existance of riot's released statements, and you can't accept that YOU ARE NOT THE ARBITER of this, and you won't accept the fact that if the decision of collusion is unfair the teams can have it arbitrated by another third party...

...then you can continue to live in your conspiracy theorist hole.

Because that's what you are doing. You have two companies which gain NOTHING through making false accusations, who could have simply said 'Yes, the ARAM is enough reason to act' and accomplish the exact same thing, and you have two teams who have every reason to deny such allegations.

So let's look at what makes sense:

Riot AND MLG lying: MAKES NO SENSE
Riot AND MLG telling the truth: Makes sense.
Curse and Dig lying (in different ways): Makes sense.
Curse and Dig telling two completely different truths: MAKES NO SENSE.

Stop being unreasonable. You don't drag out eyewitnesses at a public press release just to satisfy some armchair solomid with a conspiracy-nut complex.

The story that is extraordinary is Riot and MLG lying and both teams telling two completely different truth. That is the extraordinary claim, and THAT is the one that requires extraordinary evidence. If that evidence exists, those teams can release that, go into third party arbitration, whatever.

Please. Take your tinfoil hat off for a second, and realize there's NO REASON TO LIE HERE.