MMOs Need More Bastards

[Zulnam]

The most fun I've had with an MMO was in the WoW vanilla, back when flying mounts where not there to ruin outdoor PvP and classes where still unbalanced enough to make things challenging and/or easy. When Stranglethorn Vale was a gank fest and, as a leveling druid, your only capable pvp ability was moonfire spamming the ally.

I think it was also fun because the game was new, fresh, and very few people actually KNEW how to play anything. After a while it wasn't just the expansions that ruined the fun, it was the players too. Sure, the story in WotLK was awesome and the idea of war was cool, but all the freedom we used to have was lost so that we could spend our days leveling in a "social" RPG and our high end time in the air on our mounts or in some fancy city. There were no more 40-man raids moving to MC and meeting another 40-man raid and duking it out.

So no, I don't think we need more assholes. I think we need less rule-based games. The assholes are still there, they're just sterile.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

Ultima Online is still around, yes, but as I mentioned in the article, it no longer caters to hardcore players. And I know about EVE, but honestly that's just about it. Personally, I don't like EVE, and no, two options (maybe one, I haven't looked into ArcheAge) does not count as "saturating the market." We currently have tons and tons of games using the WoW casual model. I'm not saying that just because a game allows jerks, it is therefore good. That would be like saying "I like sword games, therefore any game with a sword is good." I feel like the market shifted before developers even had the chance to explore the possibilities of working within a free will framework. Like any other business, new ventures tend to follow success. That's the only reason you see 100 games model off of the same rule set, not because consumers have somehow spoken. Yes, more people play Bejeweled than even something as popular as Uncharted, but does that mean Naughty Dog should close down? With only one current viable option, one filled with problems I might add, there's no way you can say that only the WoW model works. I'm waiting for a mainstream game handled by a major company to step up to the plate and try it again. UO wasn't perfect--far from it--but it morphed before allowing the system to evolve and refine. We lost an entire system of gameplay because of that.

The problem is, people can only play so many MMOs at the same time, especially if, like a sandbox game, they're hardcore and require a lot of attention in order to be played right. Casual themepark MMOs have more freedom in this regard. Since the potential market for sandbox games is tiny compared to that of themepark games (see here [http://mmodata.net/]), new sandbox games would mostly end up digging into each other's playerbases rather than reaching out to new players.

It's unlikely that a WoW-like phenomenon will occur with a sandbox game, because WoW got lucky: it came out right when people were beginning to see computers, the internet, and games as something for everyone rather than just for the nerds, and that combined with its casual appeal made it able to nab millions of people who had never really been gamers before. The hardcore crowd that a lawless sandbox game would appeal to are already playing games for the most part, so you're not likely to see a massive explosion of new players from an untapped market in that case.

And since MMOs cost so much to make, developers tend to aim for netting as many players as possible rather than trying to please a niche. This is why ArenaNet has decided to abandon the PvP systems that made the original Guild Wars so notable: it just wasn't financially viable for them to add them to Guild Wars 2, because the population that cared about them was so small. They decided instead to perfect a system that more people could enjoy, inspired by popular games like Team Fortress 2. This decision made a small portion of their fanbase very angry, but those people are small change compared to the number of people they could bring in with a more accessible system.

If ArcheAge does well, we might see a few more sandbox MMOs cropping up in the future. But as I said before, and for all the reasons I've already mentioned, they will always be niche and there will never be many of them.

 

[Crimson Butterfly]

I do rather agree with the article in that the premise was abandoned too prematurely.

There are so many ways to expand on a free world MMO that could go a long way to overcoming the fear of being preyed upon mindlessly and open it up to a wider audience.

Take looting player corpses. It's easy to make a system that rewards a kill yet doesn't strip the victim of all their possessions. A random item could be dropped appropriate to the victim's level but they don't loose their actual gear. All their gold on them, however, could be taken. Smart solution: use a bank. We don't all carry our wealth on us everyday in real life so if you're a smart player you leave most in a secure place, especially if you're going somewhere dangerous.

Towns could have safer areas than others. Being in a highly populated part with many guards would be a safe bet but to an organised raid you're still in danger of dying. It wont stop a nimble fingered pick-pocket unless a guard catches them or indeed a rogue merchant however.

I could go on but my time is limited. There really is so much you could do with this.

 

[ViciousTide]

This sounds like the same issues in playing any online multiplayer game! It also sounds like Netflix's cluster fuck up on raising it's prices 60% when new competition has entered into the once monopolized online video streaming market.

 

[martin's a madman]

I hope if the Fallout MMO gets off the ground there will be plenty of player-controlled dickery.

 

[viranimus]

Kudos! Well written and very valid.

I did not have the pleasure of playing in UO during those days. My first MMO experiences came from Everquest, and honestly much of the scenarios youve describe ring ever so true with me because of what Everquest originally was.

Spoiler: condensed for space

I remember the story of how in 1999 when Everquest was first released, I made my first char, a High elf wizard on one of the Zek Servers, and embarked on a mission of my own design that would take me from the relatively safe nooblands of Felwithe to clear on the other side of the world in Qeynos. Much like as the article describes most of the experience in this self perpetuated adventure was the human drama of it, be it having to approach the game world much like how people truly would have approached traveling to a foreign land in medieval times. I not only had to pass through dangerous lands filled with monsters many levels greater than I was, but also I had to pass through very unfriendly territory where "evil" races both NPC and player controlled roamed around freely, none of which were happy to see me and all felt very compelled to express it first hand.

I remember also, that through this trip and the many many MANY deaths I endured to make it it had changed my perspective of the world in which I was participating. I had started off as a noble High elf Wizard from a city where virtue flows from every opening like water. I was playing on an island that was inhabited by High elves, Wood Elves, Gnomes and Dorfs, all of which were on very amiable terms with one another. Then as I traveled I became more exposed to darker elements of this world. Encountering things like Racial prejudiced and hatred as well as human wrought issues of killing everything that moves. I had little tiny adventures along this way such as when I stopped in East commonland tunnels for the very first time so that I could meet with someone who we had arranged to purchase an item from. In retrospect that transaction got me fleeced, but I still value it because it showed me how "free" this would could be.

By the time I made it to Qeynos.. I was no longer the idealistic young wizard that had left Felwith. I was a wiser, and more experienced individual. My naivitae had started to wash away in this new world, and I found myself in Qeynos watching how the players played there and started to pick up on their tricks. I was more willing to exploit my advantages instead of being focused on what was right and fair. I understood that there is no fair, just doing what you can to survive and ensuring you dont get caught.

I as a char developed. I grew, I changed, I evolved, and it was because of the world around me and the various people I encountered. Some of which who were nice, others of which were bent only for their self interest.

While these types of experiences still occurred on occasion in EQ, as time went on they became fewer and further between and the instances where they did happen usually were no where near as impactful as they first were when I took my first baby steps in that world.

Everquest at one time (the Brad's Vision days before Planes of Power) held elements of what is discussed here. Back in the day it was up to the player to "carve out your own story" within the game. It wasnt encouraged, it was essentially expected. There was such a joy to that.

However that is something that was the absolute best thing of MMOs. An experience unlike any other you could have at that time that was truly like immersing yourself in another world. Modern MMOs make no attempt to even try to create an experience like that. (Well Arguably EvE online does, but its more on an economic vein) And really I think that is why I have basically all but given up on MMOs as a genre because none of them even attempt to hold a candle to the adventure I crafted for myself in the interest of being "fair" and "Fun" for everyone. I am hoping ToR or GW2 might be able to recapture a little glimmer of this, because it was truly one of the best experiences gaming I have ever had in my life, Even though I ended up at the time breaking a keyboard as well as ruining the right click on my mouse out of frustration at the time.

And now that I think about it, What they say about WoW is true... They did soooo much for the MMO genre =/

Heres hoping someone will be able to recapture that formula and create a new world like that because it is sorely missed, and NOT being serviced in the modern age.

 

[Fensfield]

EVE Online is the exception, and I find that an extreme shame. I play and enjoy modern MMO's, but in every single one, I'd be telling people, 'I'd be playing Ultima Online if the bizarre camera angle didn't make me feel sick.'

Even modified, UO is leagues ahead of every other game in terms of player freedom.. okay except perhaps EVE Online again, but it beats that in a few areas. There are a few games trying to bring that back but.. unfortunately they're all independent projects with horrifyingly poor graphics implementation. Okay some not quite so, but the most advanced one at present has eyeballs poking through the sides of characters' heads.

I think.. it's a mark of the transitional phase we're in. Online worlds have evolved technologically that they're no longer a niche product, but still aren't advanced enough to present a proper, living world, something much more easily spoofed with Ultima Online's original time and playerbase. Maybe once it can be done more truly .. we'll get a step closer.

I also think the insistence of players on 'quests' as acceptable content is another problem factor. 'Quests' and 'raids' were a symptom of trying to give players the illusion of a meaningful existence in a world that, for various reasons (including technological) would always render their actions meaningless. The genre needs desperately to get away from static content like quests scripted out by developers. My first MMORPG was Ragnarok Online, and people may think me weird for saying, but I haven't felt as free in an MMO (EVE-aside) since leaving it for more Westernised, quest-driven fare.

God knows, I pine for the day I can play a merchant in a medieval-fantasy world, and derive a meaningful experience simply from trying to take goods from one town to another against risks of nature and everyone else. .. Think Spice and Wolf >.>

Maybe we'll get a step closer to the 'online worlds not games' situation come CCP's World of Darkness job.. thanks for the nice article.

 

[Mike Kayatta]

Kudos! Well written and very valid.

I did not have the pleasure of playing in UO during those days. My first MMO experiences came from Everquest, and honestly much of the scenarios youve describe ring ever so true with me because of what Everquest originally was.

Spoiler: condensed for space

I remember the story of how in 1999 when Everquest was first released, I made my first char, a High elf wizard on one of the Zek Servers, and embarked on a mission of my own design that would take me from the relatively safe nooblands of Felwithe to clear on the other side of the world in Qeynos. Much like as the article describes most of the experience in this self perpetuated adventure was the human drama of it, be it having to approach the game world much like how people truly would have approached traveling to a foreign land in medieval times. I not only had to pass through dangerous lands filled with monsters many levels greater than I was, but also I had to pass through very unfriendly territory where "evil" races both NPC and player controlled roamed around freely, none of which were happy to see me and all felt very compelled to express it first hand.

I remember also, that through this trip and the many many MANY deaths I endured to make it it had changed my perspective of the world in which I was participating. I had started off as a noble High elf Wizard from a city where virtue flows from every opening like water. I was playing on an island that was inhabited by High elves, Wood Elves, Gnomes and Dorfs, all of which were on very amiable terms with one another. Then as I traveled I became more exposed to darker elements of this world. Encountering things like Racial prejudiced and hatred as well as human wrought issues of killing everything that moves. I had little tiny adventures along this way such as when I stopped in East commonland tunnels for the very first time so that I could meet with someone who we had arranged to purchase an item from. In retrospect that transaction got me fleeced, but I still value it because it showed me how "free" this would could be.

By the time I made it to Qeynos.. I was no longer the idealistic young wizard that had left Felwith. I was a wiser, and more experienced individual. My naivitae had started to wash away in this new world, and I found myself in Qeynos watching how the players played there and started to pick up on their tricks. I was more willing to exploit my advantages instead of being focused on what was right and fair. I understood that there is no fair, just doing what you can to survive and ensuring you dont get caught.

I as a char developed. I grew, I changed, I evolved, and it was because of the world around me and the various people I encountered. Some of which who were nice, others of which were bent only for their self interest.

While these types of experiences still occurred on occasion in EQ, as time went on they became fewer and further between and the instances where they did happen usually were no where near as impactful as they first were when I took my first baby steps in that world.

Everquest at one time (the Brad's Vision days before Planes of Power) held elements of what is discussed here. Back in the day it was up to the player to "carve out your own story" within the game. It wasnt encouraged, it was essentially expected. There was such a joy to that.

However that is something that was the absolute best thing of MMOs. An experience unlike any other you could have at that time that was truly like immersing yourself in another world. Modern MMOs make no attempt to even try to create an experience like that. (Well Arguably EvE online does, but its more on an economic vein) And really I think that is why I have basically all but given up on MMOs as a genre because none of them even attempt to hold a candle to the adventure I crafted for myself in the interest of being "fair" and "Fun" for everyone. I am hoping ToR or GW2 might be able to recapture a little glimmer of this, because it was truly one of the best experiences gaming I have ever had in my life, Even though I ended up at the time breaking a keyboard as well as ruining the right click on my mouse out of frustration at the time.

And now that I think about it, What they say about WoW is true... They did soooo much for the MMO genre =/

Heres hoping someone will be able to recapture that formula and create a new world like that because it is sorely missed, and NOT being serviced in the modern age.

Thanks!

I was wondering when an EverQuester would jump in. I remember back in the day there was a major rivalry between the two games. Eventually EQ won out, but to this day I've never even tried it because of my "UO pride." Looking back, I feel as though I just missed out for no reason. It's such a shame that games like UO and EQ are some of the few games out there that you really can never replay. If you missed them, you missed them forever...and that sucks.

 

[Zaverexus]

Any of the players I DM for can attest to the suffering that makes for a fun game.

 

[Mike Kayatta]

This is the best article I have read on the escapist in a long time. I played ultima online back when it was lawless and loved it. Years later I bought a wow subscription under the impression that MMO's had grown more immersive and polished over the years and it hurt to discover that the experience I had fallen in love with was all but dead.

EVE is a good example of the kind of environment Ultima had, Star Wars Galaxies prior to the New Game Experience also had some nice elements of player agency that you wouldn't find in a modern MMO.

What's the point in living in a dead world? Why do people pay to be the slaves to masters who can change the rules of the game at will?

I'd much rather be murdered or cheated by another player than by a thoughtless algorithm building invisible walls and siccing powerful mobs onto me to keep me in line.

Thanks! Originally, I really wanted to mention the Galaxies thing (though I didn't have room for it) because it's such a great example of how developers listen to all the wrong people when making changes. I think the point was proven the second that game lost most of its player base after its "reworking." The whining vocal minority is such a pain in the ass. I think devs should start prioritizing complaints by level and/or time with game. Not ignoring the newbies, mind you, just listening more to the vets who have been spending subscription money for months and months...you know, the actual reason the game became a success to begin with.

 

[backster]

The reason the model is used is that it no one wanted to open the box and deal with the real issues, how do you give freedom to the masses and clamp down on the griefers and monkey wrenchers? If they could answer that then you would see freedom but until getting rid of those sad slack jawed no skill talentless greifers is one of the main focuses you will see casual players scrambling for the safe games that don't allow people to ruin what they barely have time to enjoy as they are having to work more and play less.

Interesting fact most griefers are students or low income slave labor meaning they have the most time and are the most bored, both egual a bad time for someone in a game. Ala EVE online! I know as I was a miner in that game and spent a long time dealing with griefers.

 

[RandV80]

Yeah I know I'm in the minority but while I love their RTS's I've never liked Blizzard RPG's. The genre has evolved since but from a period around 2000-2005 the much deeper and slower paced CRPG's like Fallout or Balders Gate were phased out in favour of quick mindless hack & slash Diablo clones. Blizzard is a weird company when it comes to RPG's, they don't really craft them the same way a Bioware or Bethesda does, but rather go an almost Farmville-like route by making it them widely accessible with an intentionally systematic design to keep people grinding away for countless hours.

 

[Mike Kayatta]

MMOs Need More Bastards

Your MMO could use a few more jerks in it.

Read Full Article

Kudos on the article. This is the first one that has ever brought a tear to my eye remembering all the good times I had back in those days, articles dont normally do that to me!

Bravo!

(Sorry double post)

Haha, thanks. I wonder if any of the people who have said something similar actually knew each other back then? There were only like 300,000 of us after all...it could happen.

 

[TheZooblord]

All I have to say is that if this article spoke to anyone the same way it spoke to me, that we need more untamed wilderness style MMOs, I heartily recommend Haven and Hearth.

It is an almost unknown free-to-play isometric MMO that has lackluster graphics, no tutorial beyond the player made wiki, permanent character death, confusing combat, and is absolutely beautiful in every way. It has a kind of pioneer/wilderness setting, with most of the activities being things like hunting, carpentry, fishing, pottery, mining, etc.

Its fun, it has a very tight and fun visual style despite graphical limitations, and it has the same player-created community and experience described here with Ultima Online in its glory days. There are no NPCs in the world, just you and the other players. (And lots of bears). You can claim your own land, build your own house, farm your territory. You can sneak around on other people's property and steal from their cupboards. At which point they can track you down and execute you if you aren't careful. Then pick up your skeleton and display it outside their iron town gates. It's really, really exciting and fun.

There are even villages/clans you can join, if you want some sense of security. But watch out, there are also violent clans out there. Clans with battering rams...

On top of that, the Haven and Hearth community, though small, is very diverse. People from all over the world play the game and I've made many friends from several different countries. I know that this isn't a big deal to everyone, but I think its really cool to meet people from some place other than just the USA.

In the dull and childproof environments of the modern MMO market, Haven and Hearth shines.

All it really needs is a new combat system. ...Which is what it REALLY needs.

But seriously. Free will beyond your wildest dreams. Go try it out and have fun!

See also Salem, which has been mentioned slightly more often than Haven and Hearth. Salem is the second the game the Haven and Hearth team is working on, will be extremely similar (and on a higher budget!), and hopefully improved. Coming out who knows when.

 

[Azhrarn-101]

If you want a world like that play Eve online. Although I would be interested in a fantasy MMO with the same kind of system.

I would recommend keeping an eye on "World of Darkness" then, as it's CCP first venture towards Fantasy. An MMO based (for now) on the White Wolf "Vampire" Pen and Paper RPGs, with the option to add the rest of the White Wolf supplements (Hunter, Mage, etc.)
A very similar system to EVE with meta-game politics, territory control and all that. As well as EVE's real-time skill training system, so no classes as such and just skills to train.
Not sure on the economic side of things, as CCP hasn't been that forthcoming with details about the game at this time. But it is coming, not to mention that it'll look gorgeous using the Incarna Engine that powers EVE's Walking in Stations component.

 

[Fensfield]

Thank you so much i'm checking that out the second this roleplay's done in Final Fantasy XIV o.o

 

[Nimcha]

Basically the same thing happened to WoW when Wrath of the Lich King was introduced. Though that mostly had effect on the PvE side of things.