Monday Jimquisition

[Haerthan]

I wonder if Jim still has an account that he uses to post his Jimquisition or whether he still decided to post it here as a link to YT. Well if not, here goes nothing. Please don't kill me.

Enjoy ladies/gentlemen/otherkin (no offense meant):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15zR-ZmTWE0&list=UUWCw2Sd7RlYJ2yuNVHDWNOA

Have fun.

Edit: I agree with Jim "fucking" Sterling "son". Again keep it clean please.

 

[Barbas]

I enjoyed it too, OP and the rest. Well said once again, sir, well said. That's the sort of wisdom we need to bottle up and keep large reserves of in our cellars to serve to our unwashed, turnip-farming house guests. They need it.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

Talk of "banning" and "censorship" aside, Jim's point is that Target removed GTA V from their shelves because of the infamous status of the franchise, and not strictly because of the petition? I guess I can somewhat see that. But it goes back to what I was trying to say about this debacle from the moment it began: What's the fucking point?

That being said, I'm not entirely comfortable with letting this slide just because Target probably already made all the sales they'll ever get from this game since it's been on their shelves for over a year. What really troubles me about this is the petition itself, which as even Jim admits is disingenuous. The notion that a group of people had to resort to making disingenuous claims instead of stating facts to get what they want is troubling.

Unless I misunderstood Jim, he's trying to say that Target didn't care for having GTA V in it's inventory and got rid of it to preserve it's "family friendly" status, and is not actually because of the concerns of the petition. But I'm not sure how much I believe that when Target made a statement in direct response to the petition, claiming it was getting rid of the game BECAUSE of the petition. And since the petition itself is, as Jim said, disingenuous, don't you think that's kindof a problem? Especially since another store followed suit.

To an extent, it seems to reinforce the idea that making disingenuous petitions like this are the way to get what you want.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Yep, Target and Kmart in Australia only stopped stocking the game. They didn't want their image hurt and pulled it before too many more soccer moms(or rather the Aussie equivalent) stopped shopping there because "those store are selling a game that would let little Timmy kill hookers and do other act of violence against women."

Like Jim said in the video, the games of that level finally stopped being banned by a government full of crotchety old guys who don't realize "GAT V" is not for youngsters. It will take time for the public to also realize that they got to stop letting others do the parenting for them and also realize that there are functional adult members of society that enjoy these kinds of games (and probably don't spend 70 AU$ just to go around beating prostitutes).

Another thing he pointed out that I liked was the isolated sensationalism. The GTA series has had the same level of violence for nearly 15 years and they just now decided to call it out. Same with the Breaking Bad action figures and tons of other games, movies and books you do not really want a little kid consuming that these "family friendly" retailers sell. It could go back to the recent lift on the games rating in Australia, for the GTA fiasco, but people everywhere will complain about something, even if it is minor, they don't do research themselves, or they don't understand the situation (look up some Dihydrogen monoxide "controversies" and laugh), all while similar things with the same issues they are complaining about go ignored. Some just love to complain and latch onto any cause that "seems right."

 

[Something Amyss]

The episode could have been written about the threads here.

Talk of "banning" and "censorship" aside, Jim's point is that Target removed GTA V from their shelves because of the infamous status of the franchise, and not strictly because of the petition? I guess I can somewhat see that. But it goes back to what I was trying to say about this debacle from the moment it began: What's the fucking point?

The point is that this is only an issue in the first place because it's notorious. If it wasn't, people wouldn't protest. Same with Breaking Bad. People are only concerned or outraged or whatever because they know what the show is about.

 

[Kingjackl]

Someone raised an interesting point in the comments, which is that while people were upset about this, it slipped by a lot of people that a game had actually been legitimately censored, namely Dragon Age: Inquisition in India for it's depiction of same-sex relationships.

At the end of the day, Target and K-Mart are making poor business choices, but people in Australia can still buy GTAV. Hell, people who want it have been able to purchase it for more than a year now.

 

[Something Amyss]

At the end of the day, Target and K-Mart are making poor business choices

It's a poor business choice because...?

 

[Gennadios]

...
To an extent, it seems to reinforce the idea that making disingenuous petitions like this are the way to get what you want.

Well, not shopping at places that cave in to the whims of disingenuous petitions is also a way to get what you want. In a slower, less obnoxious way.

Target can have it's panicking yahoos, eventually something will come along and make money from the core gamers that are looking for products it doesn't crarry. Or it will throw more fuel to the fire of Digital Distribution. Screw hard-copy goods.

 

[CaitSeith]

If you're selling M-rated games in a country that it's just accepting the idea that videomages aren't just for kids, this is the worst thing you can do:

Spoiler: Click to view

 

[Vault101]

Someone raised an interesting point in the comments, which is that while people were upset about this, it slipped by a lot of people that a game had actually been legitimately censored, namely Dragon Age: Inquisition in India for it's depiction of same-sex relationships.
.

they don't care because

1. gay relationships not a priority

2. its in a "far off distant land" so they can't pretend it affects them in any way either tangibly or on principle...or they don't care because "far off distant land"

Like Jim said in the video, the games of that level finally stopped being banned by a government full of crotchety old guys who don't realize "GAT V" is not for youngsters. It will take time for the public to also realize that they got to stop letting others do the parenting for them and also realize that there are functional adult members of society that enjoy these kinds of games (and probably don't spend 70 AU$ just to go around beating prostitutes).
."

lets not pretend that GTA *isn't* a shitty portrayl of women

no I'm not saying it should be banned or whatever but thease "soccer mums" are not actually *that* far off the mark even if their understanding of games might be "super Nintendo GTA call of duty children murderer 5"

maybe it would be nice if "Functional adult member's of society" thought about the stuff they consume but I suppose that's a pretty big ask

 

[Dalisclock]

...
To an extent, it seems to reinforce the idea that making disingenuous petitions like this are the way to get what you want.

Well, not shopping at places that cave in to the whims of disingenuous petitions is also a way to get what you want. In a slower, less obnoxious way.

Target can have it's panicking yahoos, eventually something will come along and make money from the core gamers that are looking for products it doesn't crarry. Or it will throw more fuel to the fire of Digital Distribution. Screw hard-copy goods.

I'm gonna go with this and add that I don't see a huge overlap between "People who play GTA" and "People who buy GTA at Target/KMART/Wally World/etc".

 

[Azure23]

During this whole dumb fiasco I've seen multiple people misrepresent the original petition as some sort of Parents watch association hit job of their beloved GTA. Let me be clear, if you read the original petition you can see that they are appealing to target as people who have been sexually victimized, some by the illegal sex trade. They are not Aussie soccer moms ( well, some of them might have children who play soccer, but that's rather beside the point) these are people who see a game that tacitly incentivizes you to take part in the illegal sex trade, then kill the woman afterwards as a means of saving money. They see it and react a certain way, they see and jump to conclusions, they see it and create a sincere petition that ends up misrepresenting (but not really as badly as some may claim) the game in question. The original petition was not disingenuous in its portrayal of the game, it was sincere and showed deeply held convictions about an industry that had victimized a portion of the petitioners. That it ended up telling less than the whole truth was unfortunate, but not indicative of malice. This is not a slippery slope.

 

[Story]

I already expressed how I felt about this issue which is pretty much the same as Jim's.

Although he did point out that Australia has had problems with censorship, real censorship I.E South Park: Stick of Truth, in the past so I wondered by there were no backlashes against those cases.

 

[Something Amyss]

1. gay relationships not a priority

2. its in a "far off distant land" so they can't pretend it affects them in any way either tangibly or on principle...or they don't care because "far off distant land"

3. They couldn't blame it on feminists or wimminz. Remember, a good chunk of the outrage was about feminists, women, and they even managed to tie Anita Sarkeesian into this. Oh, and Nazis, because virtually everything in gaming seems to require a Nazi comparison.

Although he did point out that Australia has had problems with censorship, real censorship I.E South Park: Stick of Truth, in the past so I wondered by there were no backlashes against those cases.

I'm going to go with the above to answer this as well.

 

[Silence]

Honestly, he basically said nothing that could piss anybody off. Quite the opposite of his "normal" videos. At least he added his view on the "famous-infamous"-thing, that is new and a good and valid point.

 

[Kingjackl]

At the end of the day, Target and K-Mart are making poor business choices

It's a poor business choice because...?

People are just going to buy it elsewhere. Fewer sales for them.

Someone raised an interesting point in the comments, which is that while people were upset about this, it slipped by a lot of people that a game had actually been legitimately censored, namely Dragon Age: Inquisition in India for it's depiction of same-sex relationships.
.

they don't care because

1. gay relationships not a priority

2. its in a "far off distant land" so they can't pretend it affects them in any way either tangibly or on principle...or they don't care because "far off distant land"

To be fair, the GTA thing affects very few people too; Australia to me is the definition of a far-off distant land, and I live in it!

But I see what you mean: people don't care about issues, they care about sides. An excuse to trot out the same tired complaints against feminists is more important than speaking out against censorship.

 

[DoPo]

At the end of the day, Target and K-Mart are making poor business choices

It's a poor business choice because...?

Because they are now going to lose all those sales they would have made, if they were still carrying the product. All those...20 sales? OK, I'm going to be generous - 20 sales each. So, yes, they would lose a grand total of 40 sales. Which, I bet, is going to push them over the edge into bankruptcy. And when that happens, they would need to fire off all their staff, making them have to survive through scavenging and cannibalism, for their only source of livelihood would be taken from them.

Furthermore, however, those buildings that housed the stores won't magically disappear, you know - they would be left there empty and unattended. In Australia. It's only a matter of time before the spiders, snakes, alligators, and kangaroos and others move in there. With the local human population being preoccupied by savagery, nobody is going to be left to check on the flora and fauna. This would be the perfect moment for the flora and fauna to make their move, enslave the humans and soon after the whole world.

Don't you see? Don't you see what this petition has done? It is literally going to bring about the apocalypse.

 

[Vault101]

To be fair, the GTA thing affects very few people too; Australia to me is the definition of a far-off distant land, and I live in it!

but we're within their *sphere* of 1st world western nations so the narrative of gamer oppression applys

[quote/]But I see what you mean: people don't care about issues, they care about sides. An excuse to trot out the same tired complaints against feminists is more important than speaking out against censorship.[/quote]
heh that's a very good point

although I can't say I'd be outraged over DA:I being banned in india,....only because I know that there's a whoooooole lot of cultural stuff in india that is far FAR bigger than just one game, youre talking about an entire counrty's culture a petition isn't going to mean anything there, we sort of accept another countrys "backwardsness"

whereas "here" we feel we can collectively exercise some control over the culure,(there would be a shitstorm if DA:I was cansord in Aus over the gay stuff) both because we "can" and we consider ourselves more "enlightened"

and then I'm skirting a rather blurry line between indignation over perceived injustice and applying western standards in judging another culture

that's kind of a hard one because on one hand we often judge and condemn other culture's without understanding the context, on the other I don't think homophobia (or sexism) is ok no matter where it happens

Furthermore, however, those buildings that housed the stores won't magically disappear, you know - they would be left there empty and unattended. In Australia. It's only a matter of time before the spiders, snakes, alligators, and kangaroos i>

those kangaroos ARE vicious fuckers.....don't let their innocence fool you

 

[Something Amyss]

People are just going to buy it elsewhere. Fewer sales for them.

But the equation is people buying GTA elsewhere or people outright boycotting them. Which do you think is more? From Australians, nobody seems to buy games there. From retail experience, the markup on games is pretty bad in the first place. Target choosing between a niche demographic and their target audience? Well, who would you rather lose?

Gamers should be sympathetic to this. This is a super common argument for why developers should consider straight white dudes. Even though that's not a zero-sum game and this one is.

Because they are now going to lose all those sales they would have made, if they were still carrying the product. All those...20 sales? OK, I'm going to be generous - 20 sales each. So, yes, they would lose a grand total of 40 sales. Which, I bet, is going to push them over the edge into bankruptcy. And when that happens, they would need to fire off all their staff, making them have to survive through scavenging and cannibalism, for their only source of livelihood would be taken from them.

Furthermore, however, those buildings that housed the stores won't magically disappear, you know - they would be left there empty and unattended. In Australia. It's only a matter of time before the spiders, snakes, alligators, and kangaroos and others move in there. With the local human population being preoccupied by savagery, nobody is going to be left to check on the flora and fauna. This would be the perfect moment for the flora and fauna to make their move, enslave the humans and soon after the whole world.

Don't you see? Don't you see what this petition has done? It is literally going to bring about the apocalypse.

Mother of God....You're right!

Honestly, he basically said nothing that could piss anybody off.

Amazingly, that didn't stop people from being pissed off. Actually, it's not so much amazingly as predictably.11

 

[Lunar Templar]

I agree with Jim on this, but then I laughed when I heard about the take down initially, cause 1) seems really silly to ***** about GTA in this day and age and this point anyone doing its just so late jumping on that band wagon that the wagon has stopped and started to rot, and 2) it's an empty gesture, this take down in no way effects GTA V's sales in any meaningful way given how long it's actually been out.