Moral Absolutes

[Random Argument Man]

I can't beleive I'm going to use a video game quote. " There's no good and evil in this world, there's only opinions and perspectives".

 

[Agent Larkin]

Helping other would always be good. For bad I would have to say Genocide.

What about helping with genocide?

Touche

 

[Sethzard]

Right and wrong are purely subjective opinions. There are no moral absolutes, some people might think there are, and to them there might be, but not everyone has the same opinion.

 

[Anachronism]

That is never a reason for your country to move in an exterminate every last man, women, child, and baby. Seriously you would order your soldiers to kill the babies of a nation cause they where aggressive?

Good point. You're absolutely right; I hadn't thought it through to the stage where there are only civilians left. I guess I shouldn't have talked about genocide, as what I really meant was reducing their military to the stage where they could never go to war again. Killing innocent people, and especially women and children, is never acceptable, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rylingo]

I'd have to agree - rape is actually, once again, the only thing I can think of that's "Always bad."

What if there are three humans left alive? You, a female around your own age and a young child. The female(who incidentally caused the death of the rest of human kind) refuses to "get it on" due to you being ugly and the fact that she wants the human race to perish. Would you take revenge in this form? Would you curse the child to a life of human loneliness??

Personally i don't know. I'm just trying to remove the absolute on this.

Here's one: To torture a human child.

 

[Susano]

I belive that there are no moral absoloutes, as morals are a social construct, not that there are "good" or "bad" things.

 

[Xrysthos]

There is no such thing as moral absolutes, because morals are relative. I really wanted to say that only a Sith deals in absolutes, but it wouldn't suit my purpose, because I'm partial to the Sith and I don't believe in absolutes. But what's a thread without a reference to Star Wars anyways?

 

[m_jim]

I'd have to agree with the OP and Max in that rape is the only thing that is always evil. Pretty much everything else, especially killing, can be justified. Even, arguably, genocide can be justified. If the race in question simply cannot coexist with others, and constantly seeks conflict, then destroying it is to the general benefit. (Of course, this is an extreme situation. 99% of the time genocide is very, very evil.) Rape, however, can never be justified.

What if you rape a serial rapist to convince him/her of how bad rape is?

 

[manaman]

In my R.E. class today we were discussing Moral Absolutes, meaning something that is evil (or good) no matter what the situation. The only thing that we could come up with was Rape after coming to the conclusion that we believe that Euthanasia comes under killing. So what ideas do you have for this topic? Can you think of any more?

Rape = At least 50% of the participants enjoy it.
There's a spanner in your gears.
snip

Believes like that are the reason crazy ass judges can only give a years house arrest to a man who is being convicted of his second rape, this time to his friends little sister. Then tell the sister to suck it up when she was crying about how she has to be on the same block as this guy.

I am not even sure where you got a crazy as statistic like that. I think you need to back that one up or just come out and say you made it up.

It's a logical statistic.
The rapist enjoys it, the victim doesn't, therefore 50% of participants in rape enjoy it. In a Utilitarian world, as long as the victim doesn't cause distress to anyone else, then Bentham would say that it was A-Okay.
It's just to show how nothing is absolute, especially morality.
Personally I think all rapists should be taken out back and shot, but to show why that should logically be so is very hard. You can go into the details of how that man clearly isn't of benefit to society and is hindering progress economically etc, but to prove morality can't be done, or what a suitable punishment, if any, for a certain crime is. It's the main problem moral philosophers have had since day 1. It just boils down to certain things such as respect, honour etc which have no scientific quantity to them, making them very hard to justify why something should be absolute. This is the reason for religion: to give society unquestionable absolutes.

I just realized you said participants. I know what you are saying. I know that if you argue long enough you can possible narrow down enough that it could seem to make the whole morally questionable. Which is what everyone does in these arguments. I take that side that there are some things you will find wrong everywhere you go. Those things are what I would consider absolutes. Maybe they are all products of our minds and social pressures, but that does not change the fact that the whole of the world aside from a few crazed individuals seems to find them acceptable guidelines.

 

[Anachronism]

What if you rape a serial rapist to convince him/her of how bad rape is?

I guess you could, but to be perfectly honest, if I were ever in that situation I'd want to kill the b*stard. Slowly. That way, he dies nice and painfully, and I don't need to try and justify anything, as killing a serial rapist is already justified, in my opinion. As Max said:

problem solved, and you didn't have to lower yourself to his level.

 

[ygetoff]

So..something that is always good or always bad?

Jedi for good.

Jedi and Captain Price.

 

[UBourgeois]

The only thing that we could come up with was Rape after coming to the conclusion that we believe that Euthanasia comes under killing.

Well then say unprovoked homicide is always bad. Can't argue with that one.

Generally anything that is purely malevolent without positive aspects is bad. Example: Stealing a baby's bottle, assuming there are no extraordinary circumstances (ie, the milk is poisoned, etc)

You could also make that argument for an action that places oneself above the greater good or the general welfare of society. Basically anything that is purely selfish, robbing a bank for example.

 

[asinann]

There are no moral absolutes, rape back in the caveman days) was the only way for humanity to reproduce. So without rape, we would not exist today.

And back on topic, a human will do whatever they feel they can get away with. Threat of punishment in the afterlife by someone who knows everything you do is one way this is controlled.

 

[Rylingo]

Well, you're making a few assumptions.
1: That I am ugly. That hurts.

I was trying to place people in a figurative world that doesn't exist. It was not ment to be an insult.

2: That I give a fuck about the child. I do not. I would probably kill it if it proved to be more trouble than it was worth.

3: That I want the human race to continue. I do not. Furthermore, if there were only two people left, it wouldn't be enough to repopulate the planet. I don't care what the Bible says. That much inbreeding would cause massive issues.

4: That I wouldn't congratulate the female for killing everyone else off. It is surely impressive.

Wow i hope i don't meet you in an apocalytic world! Imbreeding problems can be overcome by the "if one fails, have another go way".

5: That I would put aside my "no sex, ever," rule for the sake of humanity, even were the other factors not an issue. I would not.

You have a no sex rule? May i ask why?

Would I torture a human child.
Depends on the circumstances. If it had something I needed (information, for instance,) that I couldn't get out of it by deception or bribery, yes, I would torture a human child.

Info recieved via torture is never the best.

Rape is worse than murder (to me.)

Him a tough one. Trying to detect whether the crime has been comitted or not is notoriously difficult to make things worse. Add to that the high level of people who call rape to seek attention or in revenge makes the whole subject a minefield. Chemical castration for repeat offenders i say. Theres no problem so large that a tub of acid can't solve it. >

 

[Daveman]

fanboysim, unless it's something I like.

Daveman, missing the point by a mile since 1991.

 

[UBourgeois]

There are no moral absolutes, rape back in the caveman days) was the only way for humanity to reproduce. So without rape, we would not exist today.

Not really. Back in the caveman days sex was generally accepted by both parties by virtue of survival instinct.

I'm getting a little tired of these "no moral absolute" guys (and gals!) with unsubstantial posts. How, exactly, are there no moral absolutes? Does that mean every possible situation is rationally justifiable? Or does that just mean there are no moral absolutes? I mean, I'm not arguing that morality isn't relative, morality is simply what is generally accepted to be right via democracy (so to speak). But you can't say nothing can ever be classified as wrong or right, that's just absurd.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Umm, I guess rape and incest for bad

and ponies for good

 

[Meado]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Seriously? Second page and I still had to say it?

 

[UBourgeois]

Umm, I guess rape and incest for bad

I understand rape but incest? Unless said incest was rape I don't see much extremely wrong about it.

Not supporting it, myself, but there's nothing particularly harmful about it.

 

[ExaltedK9]

I'd have to agree - rape is actually, once again, the only thing I can think of that's "Always bad."

I wonder why that is...
Eh, who cares. It's not my job to pick apart my morality. Just to act on it.
Time to go throw a boxful of orphans into a furnace.

Philantropes hate humanity. Their the kind of people that say: "I think the world would be better off if we were all dead."

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

As a matter of fact, the word you're looking for is "misanthropes".
Misanthropy is the fear or hatred of humankind.
Philanthropy is not.

Personally, I like my own dog's better than alot of people. I'm guessing that there's a label for that by now...

erm, rape, yea totally bad, so is murder. But only in it's truest form, without contradicting myself, when I say purest, I'm saying that killing in self-defense is not murder.

Basically, I think just all of those sins listed in the Bible are bad.