More Dark Knight Talent Arrives to Save Superman

AboveUp

New member
May 21, 2008
1,382
0
0
Sexy Guy said:
SNIP

Also, I fixed that for ya ;).
I don't really count The Watchmen as a proper Super Hero comic. But as a comic, yes it is above the Death and Return. But then I'd like to go a step further and put V for Vendetta and The Sandman on top of those two.
 

Zepren

The Funnyman
Sep 2, 2009
1,385
0
0
Sexy Guy said:
Zepren said:
A superman movie i'm actually looking forward to. My problem right now is idk how superman will survive in a dark gritty atmosphere when he's indestructible lol
Well, at least your antiquated view doesnt mean you dont like him ;).

Seriosuly though, Superman is not indestructable, just highly durable. If his fights with Darksied, Doomsday, or a variety of over-powered baddied he has fought (You know who you are Anti-Monitor!), has taught us anything other than how powerful the villans are, it's that he isnt indestructable.

Also, Superman cant fit in a dark gritty atmosphere, unless that atmosphere is Apokalips, or unless he's in that atmosphere to try and give it some Blue Boy-scouted hope, or in an epic fight that causes much of the city to be destroyed, and some of his loved ones.
Owch, i feel like i've just been schooled. I'm pretty much a noob where it comes to superman. I know the general ethos you know? What i never got was how many forms of kryptonite there is. it's like "oh your slightly immune to green kryptonite are you? why don;t you try some RED KRYPTONITE!" and then it just goes on and on. I mean if someone just found some black or rainbow kryptonite, or whatever the most powerful one is, at the very beginning... superman would be fucked
 

Cherry Cola

Your daddy, your Rock'n'Rolla
Jun 26, 2009
11,940
0
0
Sexy Guy said:
Hubilub said:
I don't think you can make a good movie about Superman. It just doesn't feel like a kind of hero you could make a good movie about. Then again, I've always hated Superman. How can a guy with almost no weakness constantly get surprised when the villain pulls out kryptonite for the 100th time?
For this Hubilub, you have shown your true colors, and are therefore not worthy of your Escapist forums fame!

*Strips Hubilub of fame and status here on the escapist. AKA all of his posts!*

Geez. Seriously man! I did'nt expect you of all people to have such an antiquated and misinformed picture about anything!

Then again, since I'm pretty sure your an Anime/Manga fan, and misinformations and antiquation are part of what drives most of you, I can't say I was completely taken off guard, but damn! This is a shock strong enough to kill the man of steel!
I hate Superman for other reasons, if that makes you happier? I just figured that the Kryptonite reason was the most mainstream and therefore the one that most people could relate to when I said I didn't like him.

Clearly I was wrong.
 

samsonguy920

New member
Mar 24, 2009
2,921
0
0
lodo_bear said:
But what about Nicolas Cage's son, Kal-El [http://justjared.buzznet.com/2007/02/01/kal-el-cage/]?

Anyhow, I really liked Superman Returns, but what they're doing sounds like a good move anyway.
I knew there was something wrong with that man. That poor, poor boy.
I myself rather enjoy Superman Returns, and I am quite eager to see what the daring duo of Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer can do with the franchise. I wouldn't mind if they found someone to play Lois Lane who didn't look like she was fresh from 90210 or Bring It On. But that's the old fart in me talking.

On an additional thought: I realize the guy already has a lot on his plate, but dontcha think Zach Quinto would make a good Supes?
 

Simriel

The Count of Monte Cristo
Dec 22, 2008
2,485
0
0
People always disagree here, but I fucking love superman. The entire mythos is fantastic, the villains are amazing (brainiac and Luthor especially) and I love what the character stands for, and will fight to his death to uphold. Batman is far cooler, no one ever disputes this but Superman is just an amazing character. Now I wanna go to Forbidden Planet and buy All-Star Superman...
 

Zepren

The Funnyman
Sep 2, 2009
1,385
0
0
Sexy Guy said:
Zepren said:
Sexy Guy said:
Zepren said:
A superman movie i'm actually looking forward to. My problem right now is idk how superman will survive in a dark gritty atmosphere when he's indestructible lol
Well, at least your antiquated view doesnt mean you dont like him ;).

Seriosuly though, Superman is not indestructable, just highly durable. If his fights with Darksied, Doomsday, or a variety of over-powered baddied he has fought (You know who you are Anti-Monitor!), has taught us anything other than how powerful the villans are, it's that he isnt indestructable.

Also, Superman cant fit in a dark gritty atmosphere, unless that atmosphere is Apokalips, or unless he's in that atmosphere to try and give it some Blue Boy-scouted hope, or in an epic fight that causes much of the city to be destroyed, and some of his loved ones.
Owch, i feel like i've just been schooled. I'm pretty much a noob where it comes to superman. I know the general ethos you know? What i never got was how many forms of kryptonite there is. it's like "oh your slightly immune to green kryptonite are you? why don;t you try some RED KRYPTONITE!" and then it just goes on and on. I mean if someone just found some black or rainbow kryptonite, or whatever the most powerful one is, at the very beginning... superman would be fucked
At least you responded to it better than some person who's a so called legend around here. And for that, I commend you Glenrath. Now, about that Faux News webcomic idea you NEVER responded to that I sent!
Oh shit sorry man, been comforting a friend of mine alot, shes going through a hard time. Been losing track of stuff becuz of it. also work are being rediculas. meer droplets in an ocean of busy that is me lol. i'll PM you in a sec
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

Plop plop plop
Sep 28, 2009
2,419
0
0
Nerf Ninja said:
More Lex Luthor? Superman does have other enemies, they do know this don't they?
It's a matter of iconism. When a random person is asked "Name a Superman villian" odds are that they'll name Lex Luthor.

Think about the Batman Reboot for a second: They tried first in Begins with Raj-al-Ghol (or however you spell his name) and the Scarecrow with a modicum of success. Christian Bale was the new Dark Knight; Michael Cane and Gary Oldman were the new Alfred and Jim Gordan; Morgan Freeman was the new Lucius Fox; and Gotham was turned from the near-cartoonish world of the 90s franchise into the dark, gritty realism of the new series that could only be done in Chicago.

That said, the movie really doesn't stand out on it's own in comparison to The Dark Knight. In fact, it feels more like a prequel to The Dark Knight, establishing the majority of backstory for Bruce Wayne, Jim Gordan, and the Batman mythos (the suit, cave, Batsignal, Batmobile, etc.), hammering out the tragic love interest in Rachel Dawes, explaining how the Joker and other future villians first appeared, and set-up the power vaccume left by the Falcone bust. Hell, even "Begins" in the title is usually reserved for prequels, not the first movie.

The Joker, the iconic Batman villian whether your a fan or not, is what set apart The Dark Knight from any other superhero movie in history and will likely be the mark for best villian for decades. This is made almost more ledgendary by the fact that Heath Ledger will (tradgically) not be able to play the character in any later sequel, so the character won't be breaking out of Arkham any time soon.

In a superhero movie, it is the antagonist on the other end of the fight that truly determines whether a film is a success or not. The Lex Luthor that will be in the new movie will definately be far from the Lex Luthor from the old movies (of which I count Returns).

We'll see probably a multi-facseted CEO who "staved the recession through 'solid business practices'" such as maintaining a privately-owned corporation (i.e. no hand in the NYSE) and having a diverse portfolio of industry (think GE). Luthor will probably be less of a straight up villian, but more of the guy who sells his arms to less-than-savory people and gets connected to it via a story by Clark Kent or Lois Lane after an Superman-involved incident in Metropolis. He'll hire a hitman who fails (unless they try something more interesting and have him succeed, which would be even better if Lois Lane is the one killed, sparking a Superman revenge plot) and gets tied to Luthor again. One thing leads to another, but in the end, Luthor will probably have nothing more than a quiet conversation with the Man of Steel and Superman will be forced to back off after reaching a tenuous agreement where each agrees to avoid crossing each other's path. The last image of Luthor will be him sitting at his desk hand resting on his chin pondering his next move, possibly with a smile depending on how the conversation turned out.

If they try a Dark Knight-style movie, it will be far from a happy-ending in the same vein. And, depending on the economy at the time, it would directly relate to the feelings of the audience, where men who commit horible acts within the law are esentially protected while the rest suffer the consequences. This could be a working story.
 

paranoidhalfbreed

New member
Jul 20, 2009
49
0
0
This is what they should have done in the first place. Although I did find a few parts of Superman Returns to be good, as a whole I felt as if the movie was cheating me. Brandon Routh didn't feel like Superman or Clark Kent, he felt like Christopher Reeve. Regardless of how well Reeve did and how much he was liked in the past, it wasn't fair to the character to base the film on him. I'm not too sure about taking the character down a "darker" path but I'll take it if its a truly new path.
 

Jared

The British Paladin
Jul 14, 2009
5,630
0
0
Tinq said:
I liked Superman Returns, but I don't think I could handle another Superman Returns. It really only worked if you considered how long it had been since we had a Superman movie.
Making me feel old remembering it...
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
My problem with the Superman franchise is Superman himself (indestructible, overpowered, no character flaws: Zzzzzz).
 

Nerf Ninja

New member
Dec 20, 2008
728
0
0
The Gentleman said:
Intelligent post
Unfortunately though, I felt that Dark knight was not a particularly good film. Yes it was definitely adequate as a Batman film and well done, but it was also formulaic with a very contrived plot. Whilst Heath Ledger was very good, I do think that due to his death a lot of the fans somehow elevated his acting way beyond what it actually was. I still believe Begins to be the better film. (But I also think the first Burton Batman is better than Begins)

I don't personally see how drafting in the Dark Knight team can really help Superman beyond helping it to fit in the same stylistic "universe" as Nolan's Batman.

Lex Luthor may be the iconic villain for Superman but He's also the most over-played, it's entirely possible to make a Superman film without him being in it. Why not Darkseid or Bizarro Superman? Hell why not make Batman be the main villain, they have fought before on several occasions.

Every Superman film to date has been a variation on a theme, each one with diminishing returns.
 

Soxafloppin

Coxa no longer floppin'
Jun 22, 2009
7,918
0
0
For the love of god i hope they make him fight Doomsday or Darkseid.

Superman is the greatest superhero ever, he deserves an awesome movie.
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

Plop plop plop
Sep 28, 2009
2,419
0
0
Nerf Ninja said:
The Gentleman said:
Intelligent post
Unfortunately though, I felt that Dark knight was not a particularly good film. Yes it was definitely adequate as a Batman film and well done, but it was also formulaic with a very contrived plot. Whilst Heath Ledger was very good, I do think that due to his death a lot of the fans somehow elevated his acting way beyond what it actually was. I still believe Begins to be the better film. (But I also think the first Burton Batman is better than Begins)
With due respect, you're in the minority.

The Burton Batman (Batman Returns, for those who forgot about it) was probably the turning point in the 90s series, where more cartoony elements were implemented which likely lead to the less-than-steller Batman Forever and the down-right awful Batman & Robin. It was a good movie for those of us who like Tim Burton's style of directing, but it essentially turned the series into a joke.
Nerf Ninja said:
I don't personally see how drafting in the Dark Knight team can really help Superman beyond helping it to fit in the same stylistic "universe" as Nolan's Batman.

Lex Luthor may be the iconic villain for Superman but He's also the most over-played, it's entirely possible to make a Superman film without him being in it. Why not Darkseid or Bizarro Superman? Hell why not make Batman be the main villain, they have fought before on several occasions.
While the idea of having another villian instead of Lex Luthor is a tantalizing idea, no producer in their right mind would give it the go-ahead as the first movie. It's not a matter of originality or desire to branch out into the Superman cannon; it's a matter of money. In order for the reboot to succeed, the film must make at least a few buckets of money to take home to the studio and say "See? it worked!" As a result, they have to use the winning style of The Dark Knight with realism and a solid guy they can have as the antagonist.

As for the villians:

Darkseid's an alien, which would require too much backstory to fit in a first movie. In addition, he doesn't resinate much outside the circles of "guys who know about Superman."

Bizzaro Superman has similar problems and it would be a bit clunky to implement.

Batman's a good guy, even if he's running from police now, and general audiences don't quite process a good-guy vs. good-guy plot in the same way that comic book fans do. What worked for Alien VS Preditor and Freddy VS Jason is not going to work for a Superman/Batman crossover.
Nerf Ninja said:
Every Superman film to date has been a variation on a theme, each one with diminishing returns.
Again, which is why a reboot has to work or the IP will be untouchible for a generation... again.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
Burton directed the 1989 Batman and Batman Returns. Joel Schumacher directed Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Burton's were great, Shumacher's were not. Schumacher's were still entertaining, but cheesy and dumb.
 

Jaebird

New member
Aug 19, 2008
1,298
0
0
Alright; aside from Luthor (who I pray isn't that clown from the original films), Brainiac is a great choice for a villain. If this doesn't work, I can always fall back on the animated series from the 90's =/
 

aaronmcc

New member
Oct 18, 2008
629
0
0
coxafloppin said:
For the love of god i hope they make him fight Doomsday or Darkseid.

Superman is the greatest superhero ever, he deserves an awesome movie.
I disagree on the 'greatest superhero ever' bit but definitely concur that he must fight a villain who is his equal or even better, on a power scale.

Recently got round to watching Wolverine and it was utter shit. The best x-man gets the worse film in the franchise. Marvel are yet to surpass Blade in terms of awesomeness. Iron Man was ok I guess but DC need to pull their socks up.