bjj hero said:
Samurai Goomba said:
By that logic Batman is the villain (and I'm not Hubilub, by the way). And yet he's never portrayed in that "Team America" way, nor is it even suggested anywhere I've seen that the Bat might be evil. Quite to the contrary, in fact.
Sometimes I think a series kind of stumbles into social commentary without intending to. Or, more accurately, social commentary is very easy to see in a lot of older shows and characters. Characters that were once paragons of justice now seem more like ironic figures in the political world we live in. And the movies have done a terrible job of ever showing Bruce as anything other than the perfect man and hero. Especially the recent films.
I don't know man, all this Batman love is so unironic and downright creepy I can't help but wonder if the biggest commentary isn't the batman fanbase. I mean, kill the mental patients or get them some help-don't keep beating them up and sending 'em back to the same place they keep breaking out of! Batman seems like way more of a sociopath than somebody like Frank Castle.
See, I get Frank Castle. He's a Nam vet who's been traumatised. He needs sectioning under the mental health act and given some intense therapy over a long period of time. He's only there because the system doesn't work. Often he kills the upper levels of society who can't be touched due to money/influence. Working class hero if you would, sticking it to the man.
you're right. Batman isn't team America. He is more like a feudal lord who comes from his bat themed tower to flog the odd peasant when hes been poaching game to fend off starvation. He is blatantly the good guy but the parallels are too stark of the rich elite having to keep the dregs of society in line.
It is class war and Americans love a winner, even if as an individual you are on the losing end. Look at all of the working and middle class Americans who nut hug multimillionaire capitalists. The ones who keep there minions in line with fear and cut jobs left and right. Look at the anti-union sentiments, even though most workers benefit from collective action.
Bullies prosper because they win. You expect them to end up in burger king, getting their comeupance but instead they turn into meglomaniac office managers who make their workforce's lives hell.
Can't say much else but I agree... And that now I hate Batman more than ever. The Punisher is one of my favorite comic characters, pretty much for the reasons you mentioned. You don't often see prudent, cautious and merciless character play the "hero" in a comic book, but that's exactly what Frank is. And the comic makes no attempt to justify (MAX, anyway) the way Frank is.
And like I said, sometimes the biggest social commentary seems to be the way people in general react to a character. By all rights we should be repulsed by someone who arbitrarily assaults people who JUST escaped from a mental ward, only to return them to the SAME ward which has itself a rather spotted history (Bats could have just driven the Joker over the state line and dropped him in a REAL institution, for example). One big thing that gets me is how people play Bats as a moral character because he "doesn't believe in guns." Okay, but look at the stuff he does INSTEAD. A bullet to the head is quick and fairly painless. Instead, Bats breaks bones, snaps jaws, kicks groins, throws razor-sharp bat-shuriken, hangs people off rooftops, releases powerful fear-inducing hallucinogens, and enlists young orphan boys into his cause (forcing them to wear extremely short shorts.)
And none of it works. That is the thing. All this time and effort and brutality spent on stopping crime and, if anything, his presence just gives credence to the psychotic urges of nuts and slimeballs. I mean, Frank Castle would have put a bullet in the Joker's head, first time they met. Problem solved, and in a way it's more humane to just do that and save all the beatings and shuriken tossing and whatever else has happened between Bats and the Joker.
Superman is just... A jerk. I mean, he should be throwing his weight around to force world piece or take down real corruption, but mostly he beats up aliens from another planet that wouldn't BE on Earth except for him, or he stops purse-snatchers and the like. And he's NEVER prepared for someone to exploit his only weakness.
I know it's silly to argue realism in a comic, but in my opinion heroes should at least be... Heroic, you know?
