Mortal Kombat Devs traumatised by creating the gore in the game

[Kwak]

Ok I call into question being forced to see animals getting slaughtered because:

1. We are not necessarily committing fatalities on cats and dogs here.

2. How long have NetherRealm been doing this?

We are all mammals, the use of overwhelming force on their squishy bits is going to have a pretty similar result to our own, the only difference is the arrangement of squishy bits and skeletal structure. So for research purposes it has some logic.

 

[Silvanus]

With all due respect. I am a traveling business man now, and I travel all over the country (U.S.) and I know loads of sales people, small business owners, and corporate buyers that all put in LOADS of extra hours into work periodically throughout the year. So just because you don't personally know anyone that doesn't do it (or just don't tell you that they do), doesn't mean it isn't a common practice.

Uhrm, yes, I know people who put in "loads of extra hours".

100 hours a week translates into 14 hours, every day, without a single day off. That's what it means. So, practically every waking hour.

If they got 8 hours sleep, that adds to... 22 hours of the day. Add travel, and we're probably reaching 24 hours. That's every waking minute spent working, without breaks to eat, every day without a day off.

Even in the abusive working environment we've built, that is extremely abnormal.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

The game is not my cup of tea, for this reason, I also don't like fighting games. But I have heard it's a good game.

 

[WindKnight]

Is the idea of watching gore for videogame or movie research disturbing? Sure.

Is it really more disturbing than the actual jobs of people who have to deal with such content (trauma surgeons, CSI?s, coroners, slaughter houses, basically any of these for starters [https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/10-of-the-scariest-jobs-in-america], etc.) in their everyday occupation, hands on?

*raises eyebrow*

So I'm a nurse, I work in a PICU (psychiatric intensive care unit). Sufficient to say is that my work can get pretty hairy at times, from severe cases of self-harm to patients attacking staff physically or psychologically. As others have said, we have systems in place to deal with this. We have counseling, we have debriefs, we have routines for preparing for and minimizing risks, we have recurring training, we have introduction programs to make people ready for the risks and dangers. And we have a workplace atmosphere that allows for the venting of negative emotions as they occur, via colleague to colleague talks, others covering for someone who's pushed to the limit and an openness about how tough the job can be.

I doubt Netherrealms had all of that in place for the people who had to watch videos of animal slaughter for hours on end. And even if they did, there's a significant different in mindset when I have to stop someone from cutting open their arms to save their life or have to start brawling with someone who attacks a co-worker compared to someone who has to watch ISIS videos to make animations in a video game as realistically gruesome as possible. I can see that what I do is to save lives and help people get better, which does a lot to help you cope with gore, violence and threats. I doubt someone at Netherrealms went home and was like "Yeah, watching 2 hours of beheading videos is really bad, but it will be so worth it when someone on Reddit compliments Kitana's fatality animation!"

It also makes the case of someone needing therapy for mere game development research - no matter how outlandish - seem...well, outlandish. Another perspective [https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/25/mortal-kombat-11-horror-movies-fatalities/] is that it is merely for entertainment, and the context of its violent content seems to do a pretty good job of indicating that fact; even parents [https://www.commonsensemedia.org/game-reviews/mortal-kombat-x/user-reviews/adult] seem to understand this pretty well by now.

I?d still like to know just how much some of these people were really ?forced? to view such extreme content, and why more people haven?t spoken up about it seeing as how many were just contracted help to begin with. The whole story sounds a little too peculiar the more I read about it. It kinda goes cross grain with the tone of the series in general, which has always been tongue-in-cheek [https://kotaku.com/the-keys-to-a-good-mortal-kombat-fatality-rhythm-and-h-1831881828]. In a way the most shocking game of the series is still the very first one, since its tone was so basic and gritty next to what they do now.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

It also makes the case of someone needing therapy for mere game development research - no matter how outlandish - seem...well, outlandish.

In this case, not really. Just three months ago The Verge broke a story [https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona] about the mental toll that being a Facebook moderator takes, due to the constant barrage of violent content they face. Being forced, or asked on a voluntary basis, to watch large amounts of explicitly violent material of real life situations takes a toll on anyone. Some people can handle it better than others, but where the breaking point for each individual is is impossible to say.

I?d still like to know just how much some of these people were really ?forced? to view such extreme content, and why more people haven?t spoken up about it seeing as how many were just contracted help to begin with. The whole story sounds a little too peculiar the more I read about it. It kinda goes cross grain with the tone of the series in general, which has always been tongue-in-cheek [https://kotaku.com/the-keys-to-a-good-mortal-kombat-fatality-rhythm-and-h-1831881828]. In a way the most shocking game of the series is still the very first one, since its tone was so basic and gritty next to what they do now.

If employees were asked, forced or encouraged to volunteer doesn't really matter. Before you've seen lethal real life violence you can't know how you'll react and you can't know how you'll react to seeing a lot of it in quick succession. If it was truly something that Netherrealms expected employees to do, it was a shitty move for very dubious gains.

We should also not forget that people who work on games are almost always under NDAs and depending on how many people were selected for the position of "touching up" fatalities, it might be quite easy to identify individual employees even if they remain anonymous.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Is the idea of watching gore for videogame or movie research disturbing? Sure.

Is it really more disturbing than the actual jobs of people who have to deal with such content (trauma surgeons, CSI?s, coroners, slaughter houses, basically any of these for starters [https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/10-of-the-scariest-jobs-in-america], etc.) in their everyday occupation, hands on?

*raises eyebrow*

So I'm a nurse, I work in a PICU (psychiatric intensive care unit). Sufficient to say is that my work can get pretty hairy at times, from severe cases of self-harm to patients attacking staff physically or psychologically. As others have said, we have systems in place to deal with this. We have counseling, we have debriefs, we have routines for preparing for and minimizing risks, we have recurring training, we have introduction programs to make people ready for the risks and dangers. And we have a workplace atmosphere that allows for the venting of negative emotions as they occur, via colleague to colleague talks, others covering for someone who's pushed to the limit and an openness about how tough the job can be.

I doubt Netherrealms had all of that in place for the people who had to watch videos of animal slaughter for hours on end. And even if they did, there's a significant different in mindset when I have to stop someone from cutting open their arms to save their life or have to start brawling with someone who attacks a co-worker compared to someone who has to watch ISIS videos to make animations in a video game as realistically gruesome as possible. I can see that what I do is to save lives and help people get better, which does a lot to help you cope with gore, violence and threats. I doubt someone at Netherrealms went home and was like "Yeah, watching 2 hours of beheading videos is really bad, but it will be so worth it when someone on Reddit compliments Kitana's fatality animation!"

It also makes the case of someone needing therapy for mere game development research

You're emphasizing the wrong part. You find it ludicrous because the job is 'game development' but that actual issue is the task, the 'research' they are undertaking. Its actually largely irrelevant why and what its for, because the end result was still that they were compelled by their employer to watch material that most people would find disturbing, objectionable or both.

Now some of them may have been able to hack it due to previous life experience or just it not affecting them. The brain is weird. However employers have a duty of care to their employees where the are undertaking an endeavor that constitutes a risk to their physical or mental health. This duty of care is ironclad, although thresholds will vary. I'm not going to attribute to malice what I can easily explain with idiocy. Netherrealms fucked up, plain and simple, and I doubt very much they will do so again.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Snip

Can't help but notice you were dismissive of my question instead of answering it. Tell me. Are you aware of any developers near NetherRealms Studios that are hiring?

I wasn't dismissive, moving to some other place to develop games/movies/music whatever usually requires you to relocate, I bet a lot of the people working there moved to that city in order to work for NetherRealms in the first place.

Like I said before, get another job/move or knowingly be traumatized isn't that hard of a choice if you ask me.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Can't help but notice you were dismissive of my question instead of answering it. Tell me. Are you aware of any developers near NetherRealms Studios that are hiring?

I wasn't dismissive, moving to some other place to develop games/movies/music whatever usually requires you to relocate, I bet a lot of the people working there moved to that city in order to work for NetherRealms in the first place.

Like I said before, get another job/move or knowingly be traumatized isn't that hard of a choice if you ask me.

So there's no place nearby that's hiring. Thank you for answering my question.

And if I ask you? If I need someone who has zero experience in job hunting in the game industry to give a condescending take on something, you'll be the first I'll call.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Snip

Can't help but notice you were dismissive of my question instead of answering it. Tell me. Are you aware of any developers near NetherRealms Studios that are hiring?

I wasn't dismissive, moving to some other place to develop games/movies/music whatever usually requires you to relocate, I bet a lot of the people working there moved to that city in order to work for NetherRealms in the first place.

Like I said before, get another job/move or knowingly be traumatized isn't that hard of a choice if you ask me.

So there's no place nearby that's hiring. Thank you for answering my question.

And if I ask you? If I need someone who has zero experience in job hunting in the game industry to give a condescending take on something, you'll be the first I'll call.

I don't know, you don't know, but even if there isn't a big game development studio next to their current one I'm sure they'll find a way to survive and it would surely beat being traumatized.

You're acting like these people have no other choice but to traumatize themselves. If you're just gonna continue to be passive aggressive then don't bother answering me anymore, get over yourself, buddy.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

You don't seem to get that we are in a damn tough economy right now and quitting your job is not something you do idly. Even if you have a good skill set it can take you months to find an opening.

Hey pot? Kettle here. You're black. You don't get to dismiss someone's concerns about there not being jobs in the area by saying that their options weren't limited to snuff films or moving to Alaska/being homeless and then complain about being passive-aggressive. Don't deal out the passive aggression if you apparently don't have thick enough skin to take it. It's not a good look. But feel free to stop if you want, I won't complain.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Snip

You don't seem to get that we are in a damn tough economy right now and quitting your job is not something you do idly. Even if you have a good skill set it can take you months to find an opening.

Hey pot? Kettle here. You're black. You don't get to dismiss someone's concerns about there not being jobs in the area by saying that their options weren't limited to snuff films or moving to Alaska/being homeless and then complain about being passive-aggressive. Don't deal out the passive aggression if you apparently don't have thick enough skin to take it. It's not a good look. But feel free to stop if you want, I won't complain.

It's not idly and if you work as an animator/designer for one of the biggest franchises in gaming I doubt it'd take anyone several months to find some kind of work. Then again, maybe employers are lying and experience actually doesn't mean anything.

You thought that reply was passive aggressive? Maybe you shouldn't be the one to tell other people to get a thicker skin. So what is your point? It's not that they have to watch snuff films or else they'll become unemployed for months which leads to them being homeless? So you're saying they'll be fine if they don't, right?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

You don't seem to get that we are in a damn tough economy right now and quitting your job is not something you do idly. Even if you have a good skill set it can take you months to find an opening.

Hey pot? Kettle here. You're black. You don't get to dismiss someone's concerns about there not being jobs in the area by saying that their options weren't limited to snuff films or moving to Alaska/being homeless and then complain about being passive-aggressive. Don't deal out the passive aggression if you apparently don't have thick enough skin to take it. It's not a good look. But feel free to stop if you want, I won't complain.

It's not idly and if you work as an animator/designer for one of the biggest franchises in gaming I doubt it'd take anyone several months to find some kind of work. Then again, maybe employers are lying and experience actually doesn't mean anything.

You thought that reply was passive aggressive? Maybe you shouldn't be the one to tell other people to get a thicker skin. So what is your point? It's not that they have to watch snuff films or else they'll become unemployed for months which leads to them being homeless? So you're saying they'll be fine if they don't, right?

If there's not an opening they can find in a reasonable amount of time, they're in financial trouble, and last time I checked studios aren't the type of people who have constant open doors where they just let anyone in.

Oh, you misunderstand me. I can take passive aggression. It was when hypocrisy entered the equation that I got annoyed. I can handle people being passive aggressive to me on the internet, happens all the time. It's when they pontificate about not being passive aggressive that I roll my eyes. And yes, that line of reasoning comes across as being rather disingenuous and dismissive, so if you wanting people to keep a polite tone of voice when talking to you means so much, maybe drop it.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Snip

You don't seem to get that we are in a damn tough economy right now and quitting your job is not something you do idly. Even if you have a good skill set it can take you months to find an opening.

Hey pot? Kettle here. You're black. You don't get to dismiss someone's concerns about there not being jobs in the area by saying that their options weren't limited to snuff films or moving to Alaska/being homeless and then complain about being passive-aggressive. Don't deal out the passive aggression if you apparently don't have thick enough skin to take it. It's not a good look. But feel free to stop if you want, I won't complain.

It's not idly and if you work as an animator/designer for one of the biggest franchises in gaming I doubt it'd take anyone several months to find some kind of work. Then again, maybe employers are lying and experience actually doesn't mean anything.

You thought that reply was passive aggressive? Maybe you shouldn't be the one to tell other people to get a thicker skin. So what is your point? It's not that they have to watch snuff films or else they'll become unemployed for months which leads to them being homeless? So you're saying they'll be fine if they don't, right?

If there's not an opening they can find in a reasonable amount of time, they're in financial trouble, and last time I checked studios aren't the type of people who have constant open doors where they just let anyone in.

Oh, you misunderstand me. I can take passive aggression. It was when hypocrisy entered the equation that I got annoyed. I can handle people being passive aggressive to me on the internet, happens all the time. It's when they pontificate about not being passive aggressive that I roll my eyes. And yes, that line of reasoning comes across as being rather disingenuous and dismissive, so if you wanting people to keep a polite tone of voice when talking to you means so much, maybe drop it.

I'm sure they can find another position in the meanwhile, whether it is in triple-A game development or not. That's what I think anyway, neither of us can say for sure.

I never said you couldn't take passive aggressiveness. It wasn't my intent to sound passive aggressive in that reply, if it came across that way it's my bad. I can take people being not so polite towards me but I can't stand people being passive aggressive, it's super obnoxious. So if you can't help yourself then you can drop it. If I wanted this kind of argument I would've gone to the youtube comment section.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

No I think I can say for sure that finding a new position on short notice is a hard thing to do.

If you truly didn't mean to, then I'll bury the hatchet if you're willing to.

 

[Batou667]

The article, and its take-home message, seems weird on a few levels.

Firstly, Mortal Kombat is far from a new IP. Why would anybody sign up to work on it if they were uncomfortable with seeing buckets of blood and viscera?

Secondly, although MK is very gruesome and can even be called accurate inasmuch as it portrays an interactive version of human anatomy, it can't be called realistic. The games don't reflect any of the decidedly un-glamorous, un-fun, un-cool brutality of real life killing. So, it seems frankly unbelievable that the 3D artists would be forced, Clockwork Orange fashion, to watch genuine snuff.

Thirdly, if this kind of content caused PTSD, what about occupations like surgeons, paramedics, police, and other who have to view genuine scenes of death and carnage in person, not just on a screen?

That's not just my dismissive way of saying "man up" to the artists, but I note that there are some elements of this story that seem inconsistent or exaggerated.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

The article, and its take-home message, seems weird on a few levels.

Firstly, Mortal Kombat is far from a new IP. Why would anybody sign up to work on it if they were uncomfortable with seeing buckets of blood and viscera?

Secondly, although MK is very gruesome and can even be called accurate inasmuch as it portrays an interactive version of human anatomy, it can't be called realistic. The games don't reflect any of the decidedly un-glamorous, un-fun, un-cool brutality of real life killing. So, it seems frankly unbelievable that the 3D artists would be forced, Clockwork Orange fashion, to watch genuine snuff.

Thirdly, if this kind of content caused PTSD, what about occupations like surgeons, paramedics, police, and other who have to view genuine scenes of death and carnage in person, not just on a screen?

That's not just my dismissive way of saying "man up" to the artists, but I note that there are some elements of this story that seem inconsistent or exaggerated.

Those professions, quite rightly, currently have very strong support structures in place built up over the many years of their existence. Its likely that Netherrealm miscalculated the effect this kind of footage can have on people unprepared to deal with it. While PTSD might be over egging the pudding, I have no doubt in my mind that viewing material like described would leave your average person somewhat shaken and off kilter. Even those with the piss and vinegar to make Mortal Kombat.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

On the one hand, if you sign up to work on a Mortal Kombat game, you'd think you'd be ready to deal with gore.
On the other the studio's "approach" to train devs on gore sounds super exploitative and more than anything like a stunt.

 

[RaikuFA]

Has there been anything good from this game?

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Thirdly, if this kind of content caused PTSD, what about occupations like surgeons, paramedics, police, and other who have to view genuine scenes of death and carnage in person, not just on a screen?

Go back a page or two and you'll see my response to this for healthcare staff. For Police, it isn't a coincidence that alcohol abuse and divorce rates are through the roof. Seeing bad stuff on a daily basis takes a toll on you, it is that simple.

 

[Saint of M]

I think this has been a problem for the last three games that reached the biggest level in the current game. More impressive fatalities has been a thing since the first sequel, but the present one took that to 11 (Pun not intended). Most of the brutalities or X ray moments were either old Fatalities or so brutal and destructive they could be a fatality in and of themselves. Its kinda like sex. Use it alot and do it well, its still intriguing. Use violence, particularly gore, too much and it crosses the line to porn and too much after a while becomes boring. Too much of a good thing is a good thing.

There is also the fact that graphicly the games look better and more realistic. Not completely, but much better than they were ten or even five years ago. So this might have affected the staff member of Netherrealm Studios in the same way a military drone operator might get PTSD from taking out targets. They are not on the battlefield, and in fact many are close enough to home to go back to their family at the end of shift. However, because of the things they see or have to do to spy or even kill a target, it effects them as much as if they had their boots on ground there.