OT: I'm actually really forgiving when it comes to cutscene incompetence and weapon loadouts. Actual stupidity, however, is usually what agrivates the hell out of me. I'm going to say that Other M's cutscene with Ridley was an example of cutscene stupidity due to previous games and the fact that Samus had been slaughtering monsters left and right, but froze up on that one creature. Not because it was bigger or more powerful than the others (or even past Ridleys) mind you, but because...a manga said she would? Ugh.
I know I'm probably inviting the wrath of the Escapist by defending Other M, but fuck it. I really don't think that scene is the monumental fuck up everyone says it is. People assume that because Samus had already killed Ridley, she should be totally 'over it' when that's not how PTSD works at all.
You can read an article here where a games journalist specifically talked to a war veteran suffering from PTSD, and a professional who deals with psychological issues, about post-traumatic stress syndrome, and Other M in particular. They brought up the Ridley scene you mention. The response from the vet and the psychiatrist?
Q: I?d like you to watch the following video from a recent Videogame called ?Metroid: Other M?.
(Clip was shown)
The context of the video is that Samus, the woman in the red and orange armor, has fought and seemingly defeated the creature (Ridley) in the video on two past occasions and assumed he was dead. Her confrontations with Ridley all stem from it killing her family when she was a small child. As we see in the video, Samus appears to be horrified to see Ridley after years of assuming he was dead, and simply freezes. What are your thoughts on the video?
Koehne: That is very much so how PTSD works.... you daze out of it for long stretches and your brain seems to freeze and do its own thing or render you basically useless...
Dr. Grohol: Mental disorders like PTSD are recognized disorders of brain and behavior that have decades worth of research and are based upon thousands of peer-reviewed studies. It is no different than having a disease like diabetes or Parkinson's.
Q: This scene has caused a row amongst the gaming community. Some feel she has PTSD, and others say that she should be able to ?get over it? as she has fought him before and won. Can one simply ?get over? something if it causes PTSD?
Koehne: A story answers this for my point of view. I watched a man burn to death and pulled guard on his body so we could retrieve the remains and not let the insurgents disgrace the fallen soldier by dragging his body around the streets. To this day I have a problem with barbecues which used to be one of my favorite things to do.... I still do BBQ every now and then.... but things have changed!!
Dr. Grohol: If someone experience a trauma at an early age, such as having someone kill their family, then something like post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is indeed a possible reaction. One does not simply "get over" a mental disorder because these are not choices we make in the first place. Who would consciously choose to be depressed, or to have PTSD? It's an absurd argument.
Q: How realistic would a situation like the above be, or being a work of fiction, was it handled incorrectly?
Koehne: That is a great depiction of PTSD... and just to think soldiers have to deal with that in real life fights...
Dr. Grohol: Someone who was in a situation where they had something to trigger a flashback, as what appears to occur in the video, could very possibly react in a similar manner -- frozen in place, being unable to act or react for a time. Flashbacks themselves can be traumatizing, and different people will experience and react to them differently. The reaction of the character in the video was consistent with the way some people might react to meeting -- once again -- a murderer they thought they had previously killed.
So yeah... I for one don't have any problem with that scene. If a vet suffering from PTSD himself and a qualified psychiatrist say it's a good representation of mental trauma, I'll happily go with that over the rantings of an online fanbase.
OT: Mass Effect 3 was a pretty bad offender. Kai-Leng was only able to get away with being a douchebag because Shepard was replaced in cutscenes by an incompetent loser who couldn't shoot straight.
Wrath incurred.
Kidding, I won't knock you for your tastes, though it baffles me a little.
My main problem with the PTSD argument is that it isn't justified inside the game at any point by the story. You could argue that the flashback at the point where she freezes up is said justification, but because it isn't expaneded upon or explained, all we're left with is that Samus froze up in front of an enemy she's defeated multiple times already because she turned into a little girl.
Keep in mind that the game doesn't explain that Ridley killed her parents and shows no indication that this had happened. As well, since said manga never got localized (and even if it did, how many people would have known about it exactly?), we have no reason to beleive they'd carry over such a thing into the game.
On a more personal note as well, I feel that adding the disorder actually takes away from Samus' character as opposed to adding to it, as defenders of the game like to argue. Before Other M, she was a fearless bounty hunter. She may have been a bit bland, sure, but her actions spoke louder than words and hinted at a deeper character. After, she froze up at the sight of Ridley and almost let one of her squadmates die. As your quote said, the guy can't even barbeque casually anymore, what's to keep Samus from freezing up in the face of a more dangerous enemy because it reminds her of Ridley? It shoots down her credibility as a bounty hunter, especially when all the enemeis have to do is have a hologram of Ridly fly over Samus' head to incapacitate her.
While I was climbing the tower, Cesare was standing there in plain daylight out in the open or while he was having sex with his sister. I could have used the crossbow a bajillion times to take him out from above and silently, but nooooooo, that would have fucked up the story. Nevermind I just did it to all his guards...>.>
Mass Effect 3.
"OMG SHEPARD SHOOT THE FUCKING ROBOT BEFORE IT GETS TO KAIDAN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING SHOOT THE DAMNED ROBOT! I'M PRESSING THE TRIGGER WHY CAN'T I SHOOT OMG SHEPAAAAAAARD!"
"SHEPARD NOVA THE ***** HE'S RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU. YOU'RE BOTH GODDAMN BIOTICS, USE YOURS! WHAT THE FUCK SHEPARD HE SHOULD BE FUCKING MINCEMEAT NOW. Biotics...omg what is the point of being one of the strongest biotics if you're not going to fucking USE THEM IN BATTLE AGAINST A FUCKING MANIAC."
"When did I get an assault rifle? I know I didn't pack one."
"Um, Shepard....you could have exploded the glass. You're a biotic too."
I was actually just playing Max Payne 3 for the first time myself, aaaand was totally going to reply to this topic saying the exact thing you did in your opening post...so I guess I'm out of a response, caaaause you pretty much said it.
On that note, Shepard's inability to use his biotics in cutscenes throughout the series.
As we all know, Shepard is a Male Vanguard who looks nothing like that ugly guy on the box. Yet for some reason, in cutscenes he's a soldier.
"But what about the people who aren't playing biotics?" you might say.
What about the people who couldn't use assault rifles? (5/6ths of the classes" who kept using assault rifles durng cutscenes in 2)
People who don't want to play a space wizard in the Space Wizards franchise deserve to be unrepresented in cutscenes, Kai Leng should have been knocked off the car by a biotic charge, and smacked on his ass by a charge when he tries to close the elevator door on you.
Edit: It seems CleverClover has ninja'd me, although I'm pretty sure Kaidan died in one, so I don't know how he could possibly show up in 3 in Ashley's place.
While I was climbing the tower, Cesare was standing there in plain daylight out in the open or while he was having sex with his sister. I could have used the crossbow a bajillion times to take him out from above and silently, but nooooooo, that would have fucked up the story. Nevermind I just did it to all his guards...>.>
Mass Effect 3.
"OMG SHEPARD SHOOT THE FUCKING ROBOT BEFORE IT GETS TO KAIDAN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING SHOOT THE DAMNED ROBOT! I'M PRESSING THE TRIGGER WHY CAN'T I SHOOT OMG SHEPAAAAAAARD!"
"SHEPARD NOVA THE ***** HE'S RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU. YOU'RE BOTH GODDAMN BIOTICS, USE YOURS! WHAT THE FUCK SHEPARD HE SHOULD BE FUCKING MINCEMEAT NOW. Biotics...omg what is the point of being one of the strongest biotics if you're not going to fucking USE THEM IN BATTLE AGAINST A FUCKING MANIAC."
"When did I get an assault rifle? I know I didn't pack one."
"Um, Shepard....you could have exploded the glass. You're a biotic too."
To be fair, there's also a lot of semi-cutscene grief during the Kai Leng/Robot fights.
Why make the scene interactive, but give them unlimited health?
During the robot chase, I kept hitting her with everything, simply because I could, but it was annoying to see nothing happen.
During the first Leng fight, you could only get him down to half shields before he went into invincible mode.
During the second Leng fight, you could only deplete sections of his shield as the conversation went on, and he smashed pieces of the floor. All other damage was prevented.
HEAVY "WALKING DEAD" SPOILER!!! If you have not played the arcade game yet, I'd strongly suggest you do that but my moment is:
Lee getting bitten in Episode 4. I can't stand that since it was so obvious that it was about to happen...one of the only black marks that I have against this game but it's a pretty big freaking black mark. This went from Game of the Year to a pretty good game in one cut-scene for me
Even with this instance of cut-scene stupidity, I still adore this game and am looking forward to killing the rest of my night tonight to finish the game.
To be fair, there's also a lot of semi-cutscene grief during the Kai Leng/Robot fights.
Why make the scene interactive, but give them unlimited health?
During the robot chase, I kept hitting her with everything, simply because I could, but it was annoying to see nothing happen.
During the first Leng fight, you could only get him down to half shields before he went into invincible mode.
During the second Leng fight, you could only deplete sections of his shield as the conversation went on, and he smashed pieces of the floor. All other damage was prevented.
The second Leng fight I can forgive. He brought a gun ship to a gun battle after all. Maybe a skilled infiltrator would have got the job done, but I didn't bring Garrus and focus fire was on Shep.
The car chase scene is unforgivable for a biotic. Pull, Throw, Warp, hell, charge got me through walls. Leng should have been falling to his death.
The scene with the robot bothered me because it looked like my Shepard was paralyzed as the robot was gaining on Kaidan/Ashley after the shuttle crash. Once again, biotics or tech could have helped earlier so the damage to the VS wouldn't have been so bad. If it worked on geth, it should at least have an effect on the robot.
It's like all Shepards revert to soldiers during cutscenes. I didn't play a soldier since ME1 for that exact reason. They're boring!
Looking back, that game was filled with cutscene grief....
I do have to agree with your sentiment, but the situation makes complete sense in context:
The people accusing him are the ones who framed him in the first place, and also anyone else would not believe him either.
It doesn't help that Corvo is a silent protagonist.
On the subject, I noticed a lot of cutscene incompetence in Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway.
I just want to point out one example of the opposite, and how it might bite you in the ass. Fallout: New Vegas. The Lonesome Road, you finally get to the end, see the final "boss" standing there, ready to amaze you with all the answers to all the questions (yeah, right, more questions, vague half-amswers, but still some of the better game dialogue written to this date, and the voice acting is droolworthy). I had a sniper rifle. An anti-material rifle actually. So I shot him, bang, there went his head. He's dead. ANd gone. Over. Dealt with. Moving on, there are enemies now.
I loved that I had the oppurtunity, but I feel sorry for anyone who used it. So much missing out. Bethesda's version of the game though, damn, I didn't even get to play through half of the important parts in that game.
Pretty much anytime that happens. It's one thing for a game to take control away and make you do stupid things for plot convenience, but it 10x worse when the game then mocks you for it.
Really game? Really?
I have a really good example of this, I usually roll out when the topic comes up, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. Will get back to you...
when jack shoots Roland, there's at least 6 other heavily armed people in the room and none of them shoot him. You cant say they were all shocked cuz they're all experienced soldiers and fighters by then and should have been strong enough to take him on at that point.
Dues ex: HR, the scene with Zhao was just painfully bad. Not just because of gameplay and story segregation where the character appears stronger in the actual game than they are story wise, I?m use to that and can accept it so long as the character doesn't stand there looking like a deer caught in headlights while this going on but because Adam got hit with stupid bat aswell. ?oh I?m really just a helpless woman, continue standing there brooding while I walk around behind you.?
Its not just this, its everything cutscene Jensen does. I hate you cutscene Jensen! I mean, I knowin a lot of games, cutscenes depict scenes of badassery that you cant do in the game, but every time Human Revolution goes to a cutscene I just know he's about to do something incredibly moronic.
Not just that. I can't be the only one thinking "Hmm, flying car, Presidium overhangs, Kai Leng on top of car. Just fly up and smack him against one!" can I?
Dues ex: HR, the scene with Zhao was just painfully bad. Not just because of gameplay and story segregation where the character appears stronger in the actual game than they are story wise, I?m use to that and can accept it so long as the character doesn't stand there looking like a deer caught in headlights while this going on but because Adam got hit with stupid bat aswell. ?oh I?m really just a helpless woman, continue standing there brooding while I walk around behind you.?
The classic example I always pick is the original Metal Gear Solid. Snake watching as Sniper Wolf's red-dot sniper sight passes over Meryl for several seconds before doing anything.
Recently? ME3 - Thane's confrontation with Kai Leng. Shepard and his/her teammates stand there looking like fools while Leng is down on the ground. Unbelievable.
I do have to agree with your sentiment, but the situation makes complete sense in context:
The people accusing him are the ones who framed him in the first place, and also anyone else would not believe him either.
It doesn't help that Corvo is a silent protagonist.
Eh. Burrows and Campbell are. Curnow and the random mook guard aren't. The main thing is he doesn't object or attempt to fight it, doing one or the other would make sense.
You might already know what this is if you read a lot of TV Tropes, but what I'm refering to is when, during a cutscene, your character does something profoundly and uncharacteristicly stupid, is threatened by something that shouldn't actually be a threat, or is hurt by an injury they could have just shrugged off in actual gameplay. I have this on my mind because I've been playing through Max Payne 3, which has a few of these. One around the middle of the game was so bad it almost gave me a brain aneurysm from rage. I can't say what it is specifically because I don't know how to make those nifty spoiler box thingies, but basically Max looks into a window and sees a group of baddies who don't know he's there, but rather than give control back to my so I can go into slow-mo and shoot them all in the face, he instead walks through the front door armed with just a pistol (one of the only cutscenes in the game where he doesn't keep the weapons he was using before it started) and asks all the guys with assault rifles to drop their weapons. It goes about as well as you'd expect.
In the gameplay segments, I tore him apart and he couldn't even touch me, yet as soon as the cutscene started, Shepard suddenly had the marksmanship ability of a graduate of the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy and completely forgot that he had biotics.
It was more than a bit infuriating, especially considering the aftermath of that particular fight (especially since no matter what you do, Shepard mopes about it).
Wrath incurred.
Kidding, I won't knock you for your tastes, though it baffles me a little.
My main problem with the PTSD argument is that it isn't justified inside the game at any point by the story. You could argue that the flashback at the point where she freezes up is said justification, but because it isn't expaneded upon or explained, all we're left with is that Samus froze up in front of an enemy she's defeated multiple times already because she turned into a little girl.
Keep in mind that the game doesn't explain that Ridley killed her parents and shows no indication that this had happened. As well, since said manga never got localized (and even if it did, how many people would have known about it exactly?), we have no reason to beleive they'd carry over such a thing into the game.
On a more personal note as well, I feel that adding the disorder actually takes away from Samus' character as opposed to adding to it, as defenders of the game like to argue. Before Other M, she was a fearless bounty hunter. She may have been a bit bland, sure, but her actions spoke louder than words and hinted at a deeper character. After, she froze up at the sight of Ridley and almost let one of her squadmates die. As your quote said, the guy can't even barbeque casually anymore, what's to keep Samus from freezing up in the face of a more dangerous enemy because it reminds her of Ridley? It shoots down her credibility as a bounty hunter, especially when all the enemeis have to do is have a hologram of Ridly fly over Samus' head to incapacitate her.
Hmmm... Moviebob actually covers this exact topic very succinctly in one of his Game Overthinker videos, this episode directly referencing Other M. I'll try and paraphrase the gist of his arguments:
Basically, modern culture has taken the term 'stoic' and almost completely removed it of context or genuine meaning. Despite Stoicism being an ancient philosophy based on the idea of truth and logic being the ideals to strive for, 'stoic' in modern parlance basically means one thing: like Batman.
To elaborate, there has been a surge in popular culture of heroes such as Batman who share the same traits: lack of fear, an iron will, moral strength, etc etc. The problem is that these are really boring traits for any fictional character. If you take any character and make their sole defining traits revolve around the idea of 'stoic' you haven't created a human character, you've created a robot. Or even worse than a robot- a Mary Sue. A character with no discernible flaws, and no characterisation other than elements that serve to show how 'badass' they are. Any character whose motivation is basically summed up as a list of reasons why they're awesome is going to be pretty badly written.
This applies to Samus because, in the vast majority of Metroid games, she has no personality. She is completely and utterly devoid of any compelling character traits. You can say that this makes her a more compelling character, but I really don't think it does. It serves only to make her an empty vessel, an automaton only programmed to show desirable 'strong' 'empowered' traits, and never any actual human flaws. While this isn't a negative thing per se, and doesn't make Samus an actively bad character, it does mean that she never displays anything that could be described as good characterisation. A character who goes from planet to planet, completing objectives and slaughtering hundreds upon hundreds of aliens without showing any sort of hint that she is being affected in any way at all... that's just bland writing. The games themselves are legendary, and you'll never hear me actively saying the likes of Metroid Prime are anything less than awesome, but as a written character, Samus has always been let down by her utter lack of any emotion, any flaws or any kind of defining character traits at all. Before Other M, you could writer a complete definition of her character simply with "strong woman in power armour who shoots aliens." That's it, because that's all the earlier games ever showed.
For all its flaws, and it does have many, Other M did at least try and move Samus from being a simple passive doll, and actually give her some semblence of depth as a character. You may not like there the developers took that character, but personally I think the fact that they even tried at all should be celebrated. Mary Sue characters are never a good thing in the long run, and we should support developers when they try and give motivations and actual psychology to their characters, even if it doesn't always turn out brilliantly.
Regarding the PTSD scene: Other M was a game designed to appeal to older fans of the Metroid series. The entire game is stuffed full of references to other games, from recurring characters to little extras like the fact that the Ridley you defeat in Other M is the one who turns up frozen in Fusion. If someone hasn't played any of the previous Metroid games, or isn't at least schooled up on the story and lore, the Ridley scene is going to be the least of their problems. And let's not forget that the live action trailer for Other M, the one that caused quite a lot of hype on release, open with Samus as a young girl seeing her planet get torced by Ridley.
If you are aware of Samus' backstory (which, let's be honest here, isn't exactly forbidden, arcane lore), and you're aware of how PTSD works (as described in the linked article) then I don't see why the Ridley scene should be such a problem. Whether or not she's defeated Ridley multiple times before is irrelevant. She's defeated him, yes, but he keeps coming back. Given the increasingly mounted pressure throughout the series that she's been under to keep defeating him, it's not surprising that one final appearance by him is enough to cause her to start having flashbacks. After all, he simply will not stay dead.
Sarah Connor managed to defeat the Terminator at the end of the first film, yet she still had nightmares about him afterwards, and still utterly freaked out at his appearance in the second film. Fans didn't have a problem then. I fail to see what is so different between the two characters that fans should have a problem with Samus going through a similar arc. Sarah Connor had a minor breakdown on seeing the Terminator up and walking about, yet she's still seen as one of the biggest badasses in all of science fiction. Why should we hold Samus to different standards?
I actually seen that episode. I'll raise you a good video anylisis on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4ww_NwjC0Q Though, I apologize, the guy is actually a little bias on the subject. He still gives good points though.
About your passive doll comment: I do understand in certain ways what you're trying to say. Yes, she lacks characterization and is nothing more than a vessel for the player to go around and shoot aliens in. However, in Other M, her characterization is just bad and carries around a lot of unfortunante implications. Her relationship with Adam progresses like an abusive relationship, she takes orders without question even when it endangers her own life, and she is treated as a child by the people she supposedly adores. She was bland before Other M, but she's just a flat out bad character in Other M. It's not that I want her to remain stoic, I just want to see her character presented better and treated with more respect. Fusion did a much better job with the same material.
Back to the PTSD issue; it wasn't adressed in the older games either. No, it isn't forbidden lore, but it is new to this game and negativly impacts her character in my opinion. It comes out of left feild, even with the trailer of Ridley scorching the planet (I got the impression she'd be obsessed with killing him), and makes her seem weak in the face of the enemy and incapable of facing them because that's what PTSD does.
However, that is just an opinion and not worth arguing. Let's discuss why she gets shit for it instead.
You used Sarah Conner as an example. While I don't know much about the Terminator series, I will assume that she had a direct part in the villian's downfall. Samus, on the other hand, has a break down in front of it, causes someone to almost die, and then doesn't face Ridley after that. She's denied the chance to face her fear by a queen metroid, who kills Ridley for her. THAT'S why she gets shit for it, she doesn't overcome her fear of Ridley, but instead has to fight the supposedly bigger bad guy that does her job for her. It just makes her seem incapable of facing her fears.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
