jamail77 said:
Saltyk said:
I'm pretty convinced that the worst of racism is actually in the more Northern states.
So, you disavow the stereotype that overt racism is still big in the South and decide to substitute that stereotype by arguing racism is actually worse in the North? What? After feeling unjustly characterized why would you do it straight back? That just comes off as deflecting and antagonizing and frankly, while you don't owe any of us any proof for your statements I can't help find it annoying when people make statements like this and don't follow it up with any sort of stats or experience. Yeah, that's right, I'll even take anecdotal evidence. Just give me something rather than blunt "going against popular opinion" belief without clarification. At least that way, I know you're not saying it get back for the lingering Southern stereotypes rather than any misguided malice because I don't know how you feel with so little context. It feels deceitful to just say that and not follow it up on it. Then again, I don't write concisely partly because I follow up on everything I say and that has made many an Escapist user who prefer concise statements angry, exhausted (from reading my essay long posts), and/or divert focus away from responding back to me. So, maybe it's for the best you don't do that lest we write essays to each other. I don't know.
I am also curious how much of the South you have traveled through? As someone who lives in California I don't speak for California as a whole because I don't know the stats on these issues and haven't been to a majority of California. So, I've got no scientific evidence or anecdotal evidence really to back up any claims I could possibly make about California as a whole other than my limited, sheltered experiences. Of course, living here gives me some insight, but I can't generalize the entire state the way you are confident in generalizing the South. Even if I did know the stats, there's also the issue of self-racism, internalized racism, and/or subtle racism, the kind when people are ignorantly racist because they don't realize they're being racist in the first place. Those are all harder to pinpoint and it may surprise you to know a lot of places that don't come off as racist actually have 1 of those 3 forms of racism instead, if not a combination of them, though the 3rd isn't so bad because it's unintentional. That's not to say it's impossible for a completely non-racist place to exist, but let's not pretend this is as simple as being racist or not racist.
I hope none of that came off as insulting by the way. I didn't mean it if it did. I just want clarification really.
Well, some of the worst examples of racism in recent years have all happened in Northern states. Fergunson, New York police stop and frisk policy, Rodney King. I reject the Zimmerman case as an example, as I believe the circumstantial evidence indicates that he was attacked, though you could argue the Loud Music Case was an example (guy was a psychopath by all accounts). Many of history's most notable race riots (excluding Birmingham) occurred in Northern states, and in more recent years they tend to be focused more often outside of the Southern States with some exceptions. In the last ten years there have been no Southern race riots (with Ferguson literally being the closest example you can find, though I'm certain most would consider it to border the South rather than being a part of it, results may vary, though). There have been four examples of race riots in California in the last ten years, however.
But here's an example of some personal experience.
I work with plenty of black people. Probably close to half of our staff is black and frankly everyone gets along. At least there are never racial tensions. I've had two coworkers who lived during a period of time when racism was the norm and they were no different, but they didn't seem to have any such issues in this day and age. So I asked why that was. Both responded that they basically realized that racist attitudes weren't really acceptable anymore so they stopped.
As for anecdotal evidence, I have family pretty much all over the nation. From Louisiana to New York. Well, some family from New York State came down and visited my grandparents. After going to a store, they were amazed at the number of black people and even asked why there were so many. To most of us, it was little more than a common occurrence (Hell, I live in a black neighborhood and never thought of it till others brought it up), but we realized that this family member rarely saw any black people back home.
When one looks at the 2010 US census, this starts to make a great deal of sense. Over half of the US black population lives in the South. 55% of the black population lives in the South. In the Northeast, it's about 17% and less than 10% in the West. Isn't it amazing that there are rarely racially motivated incidents where over half of the black population lives? Yet, there have been four examples in California when it has the lowest population of blacks.
Basically, what I'm suggesting is that when people are used to one another, we stop caring. For example, my attitude towards homosexuality and bisexuality has greatly changed in the last few years due to having a close friend who is bisexual. Basically, I went from thinking it was okay as long as I didn't have to see it, to accepting it as completely normal.
Yes, racist attitudes still exist in the South, but they are generally looked down upon. We have transitioned. When my mom was young, she saw a KKK member standing on the side of the road taking donations (you read that right). I've only ever seen KKK members in documentaries and TV newscasts.
And just because someone makes a racist joke, it doesn't make them racist. Hell, I've traded jokes about race with black coworkers without incident (admittedly, you have to know your audience). We've even discussed racial issues while realizing that no one thinks any less of anyone else due to their race. The pigmentation of one's skin is meaningless, after all.
Yes, I see a person's race, but I don't care. The way they carry themselves and act matter more to me. Racist attitudes say more about the racist than the race they are judging.
As for the types, I care little to get into a debate about that.
