Most video games star white males.
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You say stuff about racism like it is an exclusively caucasian idea. Everyone has hated everybody sometime.LilithSlave said:
How many games let you make your own character? I'd dare say most of them. I have, to my knowledge, NEVER played a game with a grizzled 30-something muscular white man with short brown hair. Most of my characters are female, as I am. Even games that don't allow that, like FIFA, my characters still tend to be of Arabian descent, with long, black hair. In the past couple of months, I have played Alice, Skyrim, TOR, Dungeon Defenders, FIFA 12, Mass Effect 2, War in the North, and TDU2, and not a single one of those games has had my character be anything like you describe.Caliostro said:
The trend in gaming is largely shifting to allowing you to own your character, even in games that otherwise wouldn't offer customization. I do believe that the "problem" here is vastly overstated, considering the number of games where the character "on the box" is effectively meaningless.
Just stop. Most people on here have no fucking clue what they're talking about when it comes to issues of race and gender. They will dismiss any discussion of this issue because of the simple fact that the only stake they have in it is in jumping on any criticism of their precious games, or deflect it with their own half-baked assertions that the real problem is bweh bweh bweh bweh. Any complaint about diversity is inherently overblown or unreasonable to most of this forum's audience because they have no personal investment in it or understanding of it.
Learning more about where the critics are coming from would only take a Google search and a bit of reading, but who's going to bother with that before posting defensive walls of text?
Learning more about where the critics are coming from would only take a Google search and a bit of reading, but who's going to bother with that before posting defensive walls of text?
Where are all the fat protagonists? Why do all the male protagonists (who aren't Final Fantasy characters) have short brown hair? Why do all the women look like supermodels? Why does everyone sound like they sucked on the tail pipe of a gravel machine before reading their lines?
Race is just a small factor of what's being left out of the creative wasteland that is videogame story writing. See, where one might see racism; I just see laziness. About the only protagonist I've run across in recent years where the devs clearly asked 'what makes this protagonist interesting?' is Nathan Drake. Everyone else seems inter-changeable (which might also be considered a form of racism, no?)
Now I'm going to go ahead and say that ME, FO, DA and any other game where you can 'create' your character doesn't count. I have less of a problem with someone's race as I do with inter-changeability. Because if everyone's the fucking same, it doesn't matter what color they are.
Race is just a small factor of what's being left out of the creative wasteland that is videogame story writing. See, where one might see racism; I just see laziness. About the only protagonist I've run across in recent years where the devs clearly asked 'what makes this protagonist interesting?' is Nathan Drake. Everyone else seems inter-changeable (which might also be considered a form of racism, no?)
Now I'm going to go ahead and say that ME, FO, DA and any other game where you can 'create' your character doesn't count. I have less of a problem with someone's race as I do with inter-changeability. Because if everyone's the fucking same, it doesn't matter what color they are.
This is why I like RPGs, lets me build a strong female character, which is really my favorite type mostly due to rarity (and because strong women are HOT).
Also... something sort of gay about having to watch a man's ass wiggle in front of you for something like 30+ hours of gameplay. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that I'd rather have it be a girl butt...
Actually I only ever make males for RPGs if I'm role-playing something specific or if it's a first person RPG, and I'm proud to say that my most recent character was a Redguard at that. I've come a long way from when I was a kid just making the character someone I can identify with, usually white with blonde hair and blue eyes and a slightly nordic look (as that describes me).
And you see there I think I've hit why all we see are mostly white male lead characters: Who's making the games? Mostly white males yes? They're just making characters they identify with, clearly, thankfully I don't think it's because of bigotry, though I don't think the same could be said for the television and film industries. However sexism seems more likely, as it's sort of our country's unspoken issue.
Still though, remember that most game designers are nerdy white males, and that most gamers are the same, and as such most games are tailor made power-fantasies for said group, focused on boosting that groups ego. This is why Japanese games traditionally feature Japanese lead characters (even if thanks to Manga they have a horribly warped view of how they're supposed to look...).
Also... something sort of gay about having to watch a man's ass wiggle in front of you for something like 30+ hours of gameplay. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that I'd rather have it be a girl butt...
Actually I only ever make males for RPGs if I'm role-playing something specific or if it's a first person RPG, and I'm proud to say that my most recent character was a Redguard at that. I've come a long way from when I was a kid just making the character someone I can identify with, usually white with blonde hair and blue eyes and a slightly nordic look (as that describes me).
And you see there I think I've hit why all we see are mostly white male lead characters: Who's making the games? Mostly white males yes? They're just making characters they identify with, clearly, thankfully I don't think it's because of bigotry, though I don't think the same could be said for the television and film industries. However sexism seems more likely, as it's sort of our country's unspoken issue.
Still though, remember that most game designers are nerdy white males, and that most gamers are the same, and as such most games are tailor made power-fantasies for said group, focused on boosting that groups ego. This is why Japanese games traditionally feature Japanese lead characters (even if thanks to Manga they have a horribly warped view of how they're supposed to look...).
I've read quite a few of your responses and I have a question. If racism is broader than active racism I:e actual race discrimination/prejudice towards ethnic backgrounds, was making Jacob in Mass Effect 3 black a racist thing to do. He could have been white, don't you think?
The sooner we get away from the: "White-Male-21-35" demographic is bad mentality, the better.
I for one think that games should be catered in a way that suits their audience. Anything else would imply that Monthy python is bad and Sister, Sister [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister,_Sister_(TV_series)] is a good thing.
The sooner we get away from the: "White-Male-21-35" demographic is bad mentality, the better.
I for one think that games should be catered in a way that suits their audience. Anything else would imply that Monthy python is bad and Sister, Sister [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister,_Sister_(TV_series)] is a good thing.
Seriously? Seriously?Necromancer Jim said:
I have absolutely no difficulty playing games where I have to play as a dude, even though I don't have a penis. I have absolutely no difficulty playing games where the main protagonist is black, Asian or otherwise non-white, even though I'm white.
Do you think black gamers find it difficult to play as Gordon Freeman or Guybrush Threepwood? Seriously? Have you found it hard to play as Chell or CJ or Altair because they're not white? Harder than playing an animal like Conker or Sonic, or a robot like Mega Man?
I think sometimes people should read what they wrote and have a think about what they are saying.
your list can be topped with lists where the protagonist isn't white or male just as easy. I'll stray away from non human characters.
God of war series (kratos is a black man covered in the ashes of his family)
Tomb Raider
GTA games (CJ and some non typical white males have been protagonists)
Metroid (samus is a woman)
Mario 2 (the princess has her own role)
Street Fighter (each charater has a fleshed out story and chun li is an asian female)
Mortal Kombat (each charater has a fleshed out story and jax was black, sonya was a white female)
Shadows of the damned
50 cent: Bulletproof
El Shaddai (white but not your typical white american)
Prince of Persia (white but not your typical white american)
Portal 1 and 2 (white female)
L4D1
L4D2
Killer7
Prey
Beyond Good and Evil
Parasite Eve 1
Parasite Eve 2
Afro Samurai
Just Cause
Just Cause 2
Stranglehold
Spwan (nothing recent gen, but he's a black guy and has video games)
Men of valor (black male lead)
crackdown
dead or alive 3
turok
Bayonetta
Bloodrayne
Gears of war
Final Fantasy 7
These are just a few of the ones off the top of my head. Some are iconic games such as tomb raider, metroid, God of war, and Portal.
Yes do white men make up a big chunk of the pie? Absolutely, due to the demographic the business is catering to. But other races do have lead characters in video games and are very well represented.
God of war series (kratos is a black man covered in the ashes of his family)
Tomb Raider
GTA games (CJ and some non typical white males have been protagonists)
Metroid (samus is a woman)
Mario 2 (the princess has her own role)
Street Fighter (each charater has a fleshed out story and chun li is an asian female)
Mortal Kombat (each charater has a fleshed out story and jax was black, sonya was a white female)
Shadows of the damned
50 cent: Bulletproof
El Shaddai (white but not your typical white american)
Prince of Persia (white but not your typical white american)
Portal 1 and 2 (white female)
L4D1
L4D2
Killer7
Prey
Beyond Good and Evil
Parasite Eve 1
Parasite Eve 2
Afro Samurai
Just Cause
Just Cause 2
Stranglehold
Spwan (nothing recent gen, but he's a black guy and has video games)
Men of valor (black male lead)
crackdown
dead or alive 3
turok
Bayonetta
Bloodrayne
Gears of war
Final Fantasy 7
These are just a few of the ones off the top of my head. Some are iconic games such as tomb raider, metroid, God of war, and Portal.
Yes do white men make up a big chunk of the pie? Absolutely, due to the demographic the business is catering to. But other races do have lead characters in video games and are very well represented.
Only because Game developers can't make non-white characters without resorting to stereotypes. I'm sure there are exceptions like...
Congratu-fucking-lations. "Most of the major demographic" does not mean "FUCKING EVERYBODY"ms_sunlight said:
I think sometimes people should read what others wrote and think what they are saying.
ITT: Martin Luther King Jr. is spinning in his grave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness_%28race%29
I literally have never factored the race of the protagonist in my buying decisions, and neither have 98% of everyone else here.
It's no more or less racist than stating "Most people in China are Oriental." "Most residents of Africa are black." "Most Scandinavians are white." "Most Japanese game shows feature Japanese contestants." "Most video game protagonists are white."
When non-whites make video games, the racial diversity jumps significantly. As is, ANY producer of ANY medium ALWAYS makes most of their protagonists their own skin color. Call it white privilege if you must, but...
<spoiler=Various popular video game studio heads>http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1927/211971-jade_raymond_300_266520g_large.jpg
Jade Raymond of Ubisoft Toronto
http://www.gamergourmet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Bobby-Kotick.jpg
Bobby Kotick of Activision
http://www.igniq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/GabeNewell_230211.gif
Gabe Newell of Valve
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5497/228414-rand_miller_large.jpg
Rand Miller of Cyan Worlds
etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness_%28race%29
I literally have never factored the race of the protagonist in my buying decisions, and neither have 98% of everyone else here.
It's no more or less racist than stating "Most people in China are Oriental." "Most residents of Africa are black." "Most Scandinavians are white." "Most Japanese game shows feature Japanese contestants." "Most video game protagonists are white."
When non-whites make video games, the racial diversity jumps significantly. As is, ANY producer of ANY medium ALWAYS makes most of their protagonists their own skin color. Call it white privilege if you must, but...
<spoiler=Various popular video game studio heads>http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1927/211971-jade_raymond_300_266520g_large.jpg
Jade Raymond of Ubisoft Toronto
http://www.gamergourmet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Bobby-Kotick.jpg
Bobby Kotick of Activision
http://www.igniq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/GabeNewell_230211.gif
Gabe Newell of Valve
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5497/228414-rand_miller_large.jpg
Rand Miller of Cyan Worlds
etc.
Okay, so you're not so racist, it's just most of other gamers that are bigots who get the horrible heebie jeebies at the thought of playing someone of a different race or gender identity, eh?Necromancer Jim said:
I generally don't even play humans when given the choice.ms_sunlight said:
It's just that (sadly) the generic target for sales likes himself and things similar to him above all else, so it's simply better for marketing. Whether that actually holds true or not, I can't say, but marketing generally aims for the lowest common denominator of the human race.
It's telling that the main reaction in this thread is to look at the many causes of this and present them as straight-up and unequivocal excuses. There's no, "well, part of the problem is that most developers are white guys" or "we're still at the stage where white male protagonists are more marketable, but...". It's just "Demographics, so SHUT UP". "Not racist, BECAUSE OF THIS". Yeah, I think the people who campaign about these issues, spend a lot of time analyzing them, hold them close to their hearts and are actually fucking affected by them might have considered this on the level of a teenage white forumgoer before now.
Thanks for linking that. I remember watching it back when I studied one of her books for English and loving it, then went and forgot all about it until now. It's probably not going to be the wake up call most people here need, but she is one hell of an eloquent and perceptive woman.Caliostro said: