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Johnny Novgorod

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I mean you are not wrong about shallow, vapid, padded and juvenile. That's also part of the movie genres that he works in. Most of his films are clear love letter to grind house and exploitation films. But then you have Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and the movies you mentioned
So most of the movies he's made?
 

Xprimentyl

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I mean you are not wrong about shallow, vapid, padded and juvenile. That's also part of the movie genres that he works in. Most of his films are clear love letter to grind house and exploitation films. But then you have Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and the movies you mentioned to show that he can absolutely pull off other kinds of movies. The thing that makes people like Tarantino's movies (me included) is that he's great at tempo, dialogue and suspense. His movies go by fast, because he knows how to keep the momentum as well as when and how to scale back the action. And pretty much everyone one of his movies has that one scene in which he really builds tension to a level that few other filmmakers can do occasionally, let alone consistently, such as the bar scene in Inglorious Basterds or the kitchen scene with Kiddo and Vernita Green in Kill Bill (or pretty much all of Hateful Eight for that matter).
I don't hear Four Rooms mentioned much at all in terms of Tarantino's better movies, but it's probably my favorite. Is there a reason for this? I'm not a huge film buff and rarely delve deeply into the broader scope of any one director/actor/writer's career/catalog for a full picture. Tarantino has made several films I enjoyed, but in discussion of him, Four Rooms is rarely brought up; curious why that is.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I don't hear Four Rooms mentioned much at all in terms of Tarantino's better movies, but it's probably my favorite. Is there a reason for this? I'm not a huge film buff and rarely delve deeply into the broader scope of any one director/actor/writer's career/catalog for a full picture. Tarantino has made several films I enjoyed, but in discussion of him, Four Rooms is rarely brought up; curious why that is.
Because he didn't direct Four Rooms, he directed one of the segments of the movie (The Man From Hollywood). And if nothing else he's never included it in his "10 movies before I quit" countdown.
 

Xprimentyl

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Because he didn't direct Four Rooms, he directed one of the segments of the movie (The Man From Hollywood). And if nothing else he's never included it in his "10 movies before I quit" countdown.
Ah, that would make sense. I always thought he simply shared directing credits; didn't realize it wasn't "his" film. Still, I feel it should be mentioned as a part of his larger works when its quality is at issue; that final "segment" is arguably one of the more "Tarantino" moments of his career, IMHO. But thanks for clarifying.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Ah, that would make sense. I always thought he simply shared directing credits; didn't realize it wasn't "his" film. Still, I feel it should be mentioned as a part of his larger works when its quality is at issue; that final "segment" is arguably one of the more "Tarantino" moments of his career, IMHO. But thanks for clarifying.
His segment is definitely the better one out of the four. But like with any other anthology movie I guess the shorts tend to cancel each other out in terms of good and bad. And I think his collaborations with Robert Rodriguez tend to attract less attention than his solo work, or are seen as less representative of his work and more of like a hobby.

He directed the finale of one of the CSIs as well. Can't imagine what that looks like, if he was given carte blanche. But then why would you sign on Tarantino for yout show if you're not gonna let him do his thing.
 
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Gordon_4

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Robocop 3 is a bad movie, but, it’s very easy to see where it could have been a good one and was at least logically following on from stuff established in 1 and 2. On the subject of Robocop 2; it is also a terrible fucking movie. And at least Robocop 3 had that sweet ass Jetpack.
 
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BrawlMan

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Robocop 3 is a bad movie, but, it’s very easy to see where it could have been a good one and was at least logically following on from stuff established in 1 and 2. On the subject of Robocop 2; it is also a terrible fucking movie. And at least Robocop 3 had that sweet ass Jetpack.
I usually just ignore the sequels all together. Don't even give me started on the remake.
 

BrawlMan

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Yes. Yes, dear God, yes it is.

I don't know which movie I hate more; Robocop 2 or Predator 2.
Predator 2 is actually good. Not as good as the first movie, but still good. It certainly better than the Alien Versus Predator movies and The Predator. Predator 2 got way too much hate at the time. A lot more people are loving it now than they did back then thanks to all the bad sequels and spinoffs. Predators is decent, but it sucks that it never got a follow up.
 

Casual Shinji

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Predator 2 is actually good. Not as good as the first movie, but still good. It certainly better than the Alien Versus Predator movies and The Predator. Predator 2 got way too much hate at the time. A lot more people are loving it now than they did back then thanks to all the bad sequels and spinoffs. Predators is decent, but it sucks that it never got a follow up.
I really, really hate Predator 2. There's just an icky, nasty, 80's asshole vibe to that movie that I find unbearable. Just like with Robocop 2 it only bothers to replicate the original at the most surface level, and then just indulges in it like a hog at the trough. It's like when a talented comedian tells a dirty joke, and then having someone from the audience who finds it hilarious telling the same joke over and over when they get home, laughing like a hyena all the while. That's what both Predator 2 and Robocop 2 are like for me.
 

BrawlMan

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I really, really hate Predator 2. There's just an icky, nasty, 80's asshole vibe to that movie that I find unbearable. Just like with Robocop 2 it only bothers to replicate the original at the most surface level, and then just indulges in it like a hog at the trough. It's like when a talented comedian tells a dirty joke, and then having someone from the audience who finds it hilarious telling the same joke over and over when they get home, laughing like a hyena all the while. That's what both Predator 2 and Robocop 2 are like for me.
While the second movie is not perfect, it still does its own thing and makes it distinct enough. One movie in the jungle and one is in a city. They got creative with it and I love that Danny Glover was the lead role. They had a black man as the lead in an action horror movie. You didn't see that too often during the 90s. Danny Glover kills it. Plus, it had Gary Busey so it was not all bad. Pretty good all things considered. The movie was the foundation for adding more lore to the franchise and adding crossover appeal to Alien. Also, this will always be kick-ass.

I find the second RoboCop movie way worse. Most of the movies in the Predator franchise are worse than the second movie.

  1. Predator
  2. Predator 2
  3. Predators
  4. Alien VS. Predator - The Capcom arcade game is what the movie should have been. That was going to be the case originally, but they couldn't agree over who got the profits and neither of those greedy execs could agree to 50/50.​
  5. The Predator
  6. Alien VS. Predator: Requiem

 
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happyninja42

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Hollywood push for authenticity and realism to appease the howling masses is a totally fantastic idea, that has no downsides or horrible ramifications to it at all!

Every actor should be ready to radically alter their bodies in unhealthy ways, be naked in public around strangers and vulnerable for hours on end, and subject to ACTUAL FUCKING TORTURE for hours, just so we can have an authentic scene, that gets edited down to maybe 1.5 minutes of screen time.

TOTALLY LEGIT PLAN THAT WE SHOULD ALL CONTINUE TO INSIST ON IN SOCIAL MEDIA, AND VILLIFY ANYONE THAT TRIES TO PULL THE BRAKES ON THAT SHIT!
/s

While the second movie is not perfect, it still does its own thing and makes it distinct enough. One movie in the jungle and one is in a city. They got creative with it and I love that Danny Glover was the lead role. They had a black man as the lead in an action horror movie. You didn't see that too often during the 90s. Danny Glover kills it. Plus, it had Gary busey so it was not all bad. Pretty good all things considered.
I actually like Predator 2 more than the original. I have little patience for roided out alpha males, out alpha maling each other with dialogue so cheesy it belongs in a soap opera. Predator 2 felt way more grounded and real to me, as far as the characters, it had a much more vibrant and rich setting (the Rasta hoodoo gang was a particular favorite), the way it shows the Predator leaving the pregnant female alone, because good hunters don't kill the next generation of prey, etc. The added layers of threat when you consider human society actually learning and adapting to the Predator and his tactics. How it showed the Predator being surprised, and having to rethink his strategy, when he realized they'd caught on to his heat vision thing.

Just, way more fun over all. I saw a highlights video about Predator 1 recently, and honestly got confused at 2 different white guys in that cast, that I thought were one character, but were apparently 2. The rest were equally interchangeable muscle freaks, about as realistic as a He-Man action figure. The cast in P2 however, were all very distinct, had unique personalities, had chemistry between each other, aside from just escalating dominance plays.
 
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Thaluikhain

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I actually like Predator 2 more than the original. I have little patience for roided out alpha males, out alpha maling each other with dialogue so cheesy it belongs in a soap opera. Predator 2 felt way more grounded and real to me, as far as the characters, it had a much more vibrant and rich setting (the Rasta hoodoo gang was a particular favorite), the way it shows the Predator leaving the pregnant female alone, because good hunters don't kill the next generation of prey, etc. The added layers of threat when you consider human society actually learning and adapting to the Predator and his tactics. How it showed the Predator being surprised, and having to rethink his strategy, when he realized they'd caught on to his heat vision thing.

Just, way more fun over all. I saw a highlights video about Predator 1 recently, and honestly got confused at 2 different white guys in that cast, that I thought were one character, but were apparently 2. The rest were equally interchangeable muscle freaks, about as realistic as a He-Man action figure. The cast in P2 however, were all very distinct, had unique personalities, had chemistry between each other, aside from just escalating dominance plays.
Well...I tend to think Predator 2 was better than the first, but I still think Predator was quite good. Sure, OtT macho men are normally annoying, but the film establishes them as that and then basically turns them into scantily clad teen girls in a bad slasher film, which, ok.

Though, Predator 2 gets into the Predator-ing right away, which is a plus. It's in the title, don't muck about with slow burn, show us the monster with the cool monster toys.

I also like that the people in both films actually try to kill the thing, they don't wait until it's only the designated hero left alive who then starts fighting back.
 
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happyninja42

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Well...I tend to think Predator 2 was better than the first, but I still think Predator was quite good. Sure, OtT macho men are normally annoying, but the film establishes them as that and then basically turns them into scantily clad teen girls in a bad slasher film, which, ok.

Though, Predator 2 gets into the Predator-ing right away, which is a plus. It's in the title, don't muck about with slow burn, show us the monster with the cool monster toys.

I also like that the people in both films actually try to kill the thing, they don't wait until it's only the designated hero left alive who then starts fighting back.
The fact that the film establishes them as alpha bromales, doesn't lessen my dislike of that personality type in dudes. It just means I need to gird my loins for nothing but that kind of dialogue for the entire film. And yeah, when I was younger, I didn't care as much. As I've aged, I find it less enjoyable to sit through.
 

Casual Shinji

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I actually like Predator 2 more than the original. I have little patience for roided out alpha males, out alpha maling each other with dialogue so cheesy it belongs in a soap opera. Predator 2 felt way more grounded and real to me, as far as the characters, it had a much more vibrant and rich setting (the Rasta hoodoo gang was a particular favorite), the way it shows the Predator leaving the pregnant female alone, because good hunters don't kill the next generation of prey, etc. The added layers of threat when you consider human society actually learning and adapting to the Predator and his tactics. How it showed the Predator being surprised, and having to rethink his strategy, when he realized they'd caught on to his heat vision thing.

Just, way more fun over all. I saw a highlights video about Predator 1 recently, and honestly got confused at 2 different white guys in that cast, that I thought were one character, but were apparently 2. The rest were equally interchangeable muscle freaks, about as realistic as a He-Man action figure. The cast in P2 however, were all very distinct, had unique personalities, had chemistry between each other, aside from just escalating dominance plays.
Not to be that guy, but the whole muscle bound 80's action star thing was on purpose. It shows you characters who could each star in their own one-man army action movie, only to get killed like they're nothing by the Predator. Even Arnold gets b*tch-slapped into a bloody pulp, and survives through sheer luck. And this is prime 80's Arnold.

Also, putting the Predator in a metropolitan setting never worked for me. I mean, this thing is a hunter, why is he in a city? Putting the Predator in L.A. is like putting Robocop in a redwood forrest. His cloaking tech is also way less effective in a city environment. Why is he killing random goons, why is he smashing through a subway train and killing everyone left and right? In Predator 1 he took his sweet time observing who he thought was worthy to hunt, which is why he likely never killed anyone in the guerilla camp. Why is their spaceship easily accessible through the sewer? You'd think these guys would want to keep their presence on Earth a secret. Why would he for a second mistake a childs toy for a legitimate weapon? Why would he use the phrase 'want some candy' for no reason when he's about to kill someone? Why would he try to blow himself up when he's simply hanging from a building, and he's got enough strength to run away? Why would Danny Glover want to unmask this 10-foot tall killer alien, and how would he even know how to do it?

I just... I can't even with this movie.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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The originals are miles better but I kinda like Robocop 2 and Predator 2. Might be nostalgia though, haven't seen them in a while.
 

BrawlMan

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Not to be that guy, but the whole muscle bound 80's action star thing was on purpose. It shows you characters who could each star in their own one-man army action movie, only to get killed like they're nothing by the Predator. Even Arnold gets b*tch-slapped into a bloody pulp, and survives through sheer luck. And this is prime 80's Arnold.

Also, putting the Predator in a metropolitan setting never worked for me. I mean, this thing is a hunter, why is he in a city? Putting the Predator in L.A. is like putting Robocop in a redwood forrest. His cloaking tech is also way less effective in a city environment. Why is he killing random goons, why is he smashing through a subway train and killing everyone left and right? In Predator 1 he took his sweet time observing who he thought was worthy to hunt, which is why he likely never killed anyone in the guerilla camp. Why is their spaceship easily accessible through the sewer? You'd think these guys would want to keep their presence on Earth a secret. Why would he for a second mistake a childs toy for a legitimate weapon? Why would he use the phrase 'want some candy' for no reason when he's about to kill someone? Why would he try to blow himself up when he's simply hanging from a building, and he's got enough strength to run away? Why would Danny Glover want to unmask this 10-foot tall killer alien, and how would he even know how to do it?

I just... I can't even with this movie.
The reason why that particular Predator is in the city, due to being a younger and cockier hunter. The other one from the first movie was a seasoned hunter; older and wiser. The younger predator sought a bigger and grander challenge. You can tell by his body language, movements, his alternate use of hunting. The movie implies this, and the character is described in the original script.
 
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happyninja42

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Not to be that guy, but the whole muscle bound 80's action star thing was on purpose. It shows you characters who could each star in their own one-man army action movie, only to get killed like they're nothing by the Predator. Even Arnold gets b*tch-slapped into a bloody pulp, and survives through sheer luck. And this is prime 80's Arnold.
And yet, you decided to indeed, BE That Guy. Even after someone else That Guy'd my comment, AND I already replied to it.
You guys keep saying this shit like I'm not aware of it, even AFTER saying I'm aware of it. Do you not understand the words that I am typing, where I say "I know it's on purpose, I still don't find it all that entertaining to watch anymore." I mean, do I need to use morse fucking code to further clarify it? Should I resort to caveman speak to get the point across? I KNOW ITS ON PURPOSE!! IT WAS THE 80S.

You guys keep saying "Well they MEANT to make them alpha male dickbags, all dosed to the gills on as many anabolic steroids (IRL) as they could get their hands on back then!" like that some kind of sign of quality. It still doesn't make the acting any better. It's your typical run of the mill, 80s style meathead, action speak, which when I was freaking 9 years old, was cool. But decades later, I don't find as enjoyable to watch. I don't think "Gosh! I so want to listen to those subpar actors try and ALL carry a main storyline, without anyone really being a good actor among them!! Because hey! They have big guns!! Pew pew!! Shooty shooty BANG BANG!! WHEEEE!" Sorry, that doesn't do it for me anymore. It never really did if I'm being completely honest. The 80s action movies, were a tertiary interest of mine growing up. Sure I saw most of them, and even enjoyed several of them. But they didn't shape my childhood, or define me growing up. I don't own any of those on dvd, or vhs, and I have no plans to ever actively seek them out to watch again.

Also, putting the Predator in a metropolitan setting never worked for me. I mean, this thing is a hunter, why is he in a city? Putting the Predator in L.A. is like putting Robocop in a redwood forrest. His cloaking tech is also way less effective in a city environment. Why is he killing random goons, why is he smashing through a subway train and killing everyone left and right? In Predator 1 he took his sweet time observing who he thought was worthy to hunt, which is why he likely never killed anyone in the guerilla camp. Why is their spaceship easily accessible through the sewer? You'd think these guys would want to keep their presence on Earth a secret. Why would he for a second mistake a childs toy for a legitimate weapon? Why would he use the phrase 'want some candy' for no reason when he's about to kill someone? Why would he try to blow himself up when he's simply hanging from a building, and he's got enough strength to run away? Why would Danny Glover want to unmask this 10-foot tall killer alien, and how would he even know how to do it?

I just... I can't even with this movie.
That's fine, you don't like it as much as the first one. I have no problems with differing tastes in cinema. I'm not trying to persuade anyone that it's a better film, I just personally like P2 more than P1, as far as long term, multiple re-views, and changes in personality/tastes.
 

Casual Shinji

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And yet, you decided to indeed, BE That Guy. Even after someone else That Guy'd my comment, AND I already replied to it.
You guys keep saying this shit like I'm not aware of it, even AFTER saying I'm aware of it. Do you not understand the words that I am typing, where I say "I know it's on purpose, I still don't find it all that entertaining to watch anymore." I mean, do I need to use morse fucking code to further clarify it? Should I resort to caveman speak to get the point across? I KNOW ITS ON PURPOSE!! IT WAS THE 80S.
Hey man, I didn't see that post. So sorry if mine was one too many.

You guys keep saying "Well they MEANT to make them alpha male dickbags, all dosed to the gills on as many anabolic steroids (IRL) as they could get their hands on back then!" like that some kind of sign of quality. It still doesn't make the acting any better. It's your typical run of the mill, 80s style meathead, action speak, which when I was freaking 9 years old, was cool. But decades later, I don't find as enjoyable to watch. I don't think "Gosh! I so want to listen to those subpar actors try and ALL carry a main storyline, without anyone really being a good actor among them!! Because hey! They have big guns!! Pew pew!! Shooty shooty BANG BANG!! WHEEEE!" Sorry, that doesn't do it for me anymore. It never really did if I'm being completely honest. The 80s action movies, were a tertiary interest of mine growing up. Sure I saw most of them, and even enjoyed several of them. But they didn't shape my childhood, or define me growing up. I don't own any of those on dvd, or vhs, and I have no plans to ever actively seek them out to watch again.
Yeah, I can't say I had a problem with any of that. Not with the acting either, including Arnold. Not that he's what one could call a good actor, but the majority of his films harness his abilities as an entertainer very well. And while I grew up in the 80's it was mainly shit like Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, and Indiana Jones. The big tough action movies were generally something I wasn't allowed to watch yet. And it honestly wasn't till I hit 30 that I started to appreciate 80's action shlock.
 
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BrawlMan

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Hey man, I didn't see that post. So sorry if mine was one too many.

Yeah, I can't say I had a problem with any of that. Not with the acting either, including Arnold. Not that he's what one could call a good actor, but the majority of his films harness his abilities as an entertainer very well. And while I grew up in the 80's it was mainly shit like Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, and Indiana Jones. The big tough action movies were generally something I wasn't allowed to watch yet. And it honestly wasn't till I hit 30 that I started to appreciate 80's action shlock.
I actually don't consider Predator schlock. I call that a damn good action horror movie. Sure, it's just a Sci-Fi version of Beowulf and The Most Dangerous Game. But it's a concept Shane Black made work. I know there's this inclination of most action movies are schlock, but I don't see that as the case all the time. Or the splitting hairs of what's good schlock and bad scholck. I feel it's been used too much as a defense buffer or for people to justify why they like something. A precursor to the whole I watch it or like it for "ironic" purposes. Because they're afraid others will treat them or judge them for liking something that's not the norm or outside the target audience. I'm not claiming that this is you, but it's something I've learned over the years.